"Art & BDSM" or "How far would you go?"

[Primalex]

Marina Abramović

"To test the limits of the relationship between performer and audience, Abramović developed one of her most challenging (and best-known) performances. She assigned a passive role to herself, with the public being the force which would act on her.

Abramović had placed upon a table 72 objects that people were allowed to use (a sign informed them) in any way that they chose. Some of these were objects that could give pleasure, while others could be wielded to inflict pain, or to harm her. Among them were scissors, a knife, a whip, and, most notoriously, a gun and a single bullet. For six hours the artist allowed the audience members to manipulate her body and actions.

Initially, members of the audience reacted with caution and modesty, but as time passed (and the artist remained impassive) several people began to act quite aggressively."

So far from Wikipedia. Among the items were also lipstick, honey, sugar, salt, an axe, a rose..
In another interview she tells that her shirt was ripped open, that she was fondled and kissed... and of course abused with the items".


So, would you lie on the table and what items would you (not) make available for the people?

 

[FurryFury]

I would not put out a gun, knife, scissors, axe or anything else that was likely to cause permanent harm.

If I were into being an exhibitionist, and I didn't need to feel trust in the person fooling with me, I might put other things out there . . .

 

[neci]

i don't know. honestly. it completely turns me on.
i just don't know if i could do it in a crowd.
i would definitely be in the crowd!

what would i want....
acrylic paints
paint brushes
a whip
paint stirrers
a belt
a tie
permanent markers
a switchblade
a lasso
vaseline
a fork
a wooden spoon
clothespins
duct tape

there is more... i just need more time to think.

 

[00Syd]

Its interesting when thought about as performance art (as it was intended), rather than as a scene. I like thinking about the bounderies between the performer and their audience, and art that explores the limits of that interaction is really fascinating stuff.

 

[eastern sun]

I just saw her last week at the Museum of Modern Art. She didn't have objects out in this setting. Her suggestion at this event was simply to sit silently with her at a table. Over the course of four hours, I saw three people sit unmoving across from her. It made me want to get in there and scream at her.

She looked like she was made of wax.

 

[subish2009]

i don't know. honestly. it completely turns me on.
i just don't know if i could do it in a crowd.
i would definitely be in the crowd!

what would i want....
acrylic paints
paint brushes
a whip
paint stirrers
a belt
a tie
permanent markers
a switchblade
a lasso
vaseline
a fork
a wooden spoon
clothespins
duct tape

there is more... i just need more time to think.

It's a complete turn-on to me, too, but more as a scene than an actual social experiment. But I could totally get on-board doing this in a safe environment...within a BDSM community or something. I know that's too far from the original point for many of you to find relevant, but as a fantasy? On a less intense, safer, level? Freaking hot with tons of potential! My list would be much more tame than neci's, but I'll think about it.... Very intriguing. Very.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I wouldn't lay on a table, no. It's a cool concept, though. I'd like it even more if I could be certain that the items were highly personal or symbolic to the person tabled.


There's a picture and a little more about that "72 items" show here...

 

[Netzach]

I believe she did a piece where she cut herself, too.

And then you have Chris Burden - who had himself shot and crucified to a vw bug and lived in a locker for some crazy duration.

And the pair who spent a month on 15 feet of rope tied together.

The 70's 80's art world = very pervy undercurrents.

 

[Cattypuss]

Its interesting when thought about as performance art (as it was intended), rather than as a scene. I like thinking about the bounderies between the performer and their audience, and art that explores the limits of that interaction is really fascinating stuff.

Ditto

 

[00Syd]

I believe she did a piece where she cut herself, too.

And then you have Chris Burden - who had himself shot and crucified to a vw bug and lived in a locker for some crazy duration.

And the pair who spent a month on 15 feet of rope tied together.

The 70's 80's art world = very pervy undercurrents.

Man, the performance art world was and still is totally nuts. There was also the couple who toured modern art museums in a cage, dressed in weird head dresses and stuff, marketing themselves as the king and queen of some native people from some tiny island. And people fell for it.

And there is this guy from the Philippines who's out doing stuff now, who dressed up in this creepy as hell pig outfit around piles and piles of putrefying meat for days.

People do some weird stuff in order to make a point, and I will totally watch them do it.

 

[Netzach]

Man, the performance art world was and still is totally nuts. There was also the couple who toured modern art museums in a cage, dressed in weird head dresses and stuff, marketing themselves as the king and queen of some native people from some tiny island. And people fell for it.

And there is this guy from the Philippines who's out doing stuff now, who dressed up in this creepy as hell pig outfit around piles and piles of putrefying meat for days.

People do some weird stuff in order to make a point, and I will totally watch them do it.

The first piece was Coco Fusco and I'm blanking on her cohorts name. It was based on the fact that various nonwestern people *were* often exhibits well into the first part of the 20th c.

Piece wasn't nearly as weird as the reactions to it. Very creepy how not far we've come. A LOT of people didn't get that there was a point to this.

 

[Netzach]

I think Yoko Ono's "cut piece" also had a very point-blank take on power relations. In fact the piece the OP posted seems derivative of it or an "answer" in some way.

 

[Primalex]

I think Yoko Ono's "cut piece" also had a very point-blank take on power relations. In fact the piece the OP posted seems derivative of it or an "answer" in some way.

You can call me Primalex.

 

[00Syd]

The first piece was Coco Fusco and I'm blanking on her cohorts name. It was based on the fact that various nonwestern people *were* often exhibits well into the first part of the 20th c.

Piece wasn't nearly as weird as the reactions to it. Very creepy how not far we've come. A LOT of people didn't get that there was a point to this.

Right, exactly. When I first learned about this exhibit, all I could think about were the Africans and Native Americans and Inuits who were exhibited in tiny replicas of their environment as a part of Barnum's American Museum during the mid 1800s.

And yes, I completely agree that the strangest part of the piece was the reactions of the Audience. There were people paying to take a photo with them, paying for them to either tell a story in their "native tongue" or dance (I can't remember which. Maybe both), and so many people just gaped at them, and openly discussed why they didn't see a problem with exhibiting people in a cage.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[Primalex]

Its interesting when thought about as performance art (as it was intended), rather than as a scene. I like thinking about the bounderies between the performer and their audience, and art that explores the limits of that interaction is really fascinating stuff.

I wonder, if there is a limit. Even if she would have been shot and killed - would it have stopped being art? (as long as nobody cleaned up...)

I mean, we already have the real end of it, with Body Worlds.


Obscene or the perfect combination of the cycle of life and death?
http://lovelifelikeyourself.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/bodyworlds.jpg

 

[Primalex]

Do you think a BDSM crowd would behave differently? When and why?

 

[00Syd]

I wonder, if there is a limit. Even if she would have been shot and killed - would it have stopped being art? (as long as nobody cleaned up...)

I don't think it would have stopped being art, but that doesn't mean that I think it would be right.

I don't actually think that there is any real limit to the way that a performer can interact with their audience. They can completely switch traditional roles (with the performer watching the audience), the perceived limit to their interactions can be completely done away with (like in this case, when the performer was molested by her audience), and it can still be a performance.

If done with conscious thought, I think that anything can be a performance.

 

[shamegirl]

Do you think a BDSM crowd would behave differently? When and why?

I think the would behave as unpredictably as the rest of the public.I don't think a persons sexual tastes necessarily come in to play when faced with this kind of situation. If the artist remained passive I'd be tempted to see what it would take for me to get a response from her. My motive would be curiosity rather than sexual.

 

[tonyp]

hmm

interesting - i like this thread

we are stnding back behind the observers/audiance - are we excited by this or is this just an analysis?

 

[callinectes2]

Not just no..hell no! I wouldn't I do that.

 

[neci]

I mean, we already have the real end of it, with Body Worlds.

Body Worlds is amazing.

 

[sb2009]

body worlds is super cool.

I think, at a party with people I know, and people I trust around, I might do a thing where mabye various paddles, floggers, etc are out and anyone can use one on me. It seems very hot to me. I think I'd like to be blindfolded and mabye restrained as well.

However, with a bunch of strangers, no way LOL

 

[SweetSassyVixen]

Marina Abramović

"To test the limits of the relationship between performer and audience, Abramović developed one of her most challenging (and best-known) performances. She assigned a passive role to herself, with the public being the force which would act on her.

Abramović had placed upon a table 72 objects that people were allowed to use (a sign informed them) in any way that they chose. Some of these were objects that could give pleasure, while others could be wielded to inflict pain, or to harm her. Among them were scissors, a knife, a whip, and, most notoriously, a gun and a single bullet. For six hours the artist allowed the audience members to manipulate her body and actions.

Initially, members of the audience reacted with caution and modesty, but as time passed (and the artist remained impassive) several people began to act quite aggressively."

So far from Wikipedia. Among the items were also lipstick, honey, sugar, salt, an axe, a rose..
In another interview she tells that her shirt was ripped open, that she was fondled and kissed... and of course abused with the items".


So, would you lie on the table and what items would you (not) make available for the people?

I would lie on the table clothed. I would have duct tape, ice, spatula, carrots, cucumbers, dildo, vibrator, belt, riding crop, blindfold, clothes pins, rope, ruler, feather, roses with thorns....cant think of more right now.

 

[Primalex]

I would lie on the table clothed.

Not that you would stay this way for long...

 

[Stella_Omega]

I wonder, if there is a limit. Even if she would have been shot and killed - would it have stopped being art? (as long as nobody cleaned up...)

I mean, we already have the real end of it, with Body Worlds.


Obscene or the perfect combination of the cycle of life and death?
http://lovelifelikeyourself.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/bodyworlds.jpg

Not at all obscene! And I am SO glad that Von Hagens has decided to address sex.

When I saw the show, he had many exhibits dealing with-- the labels said so-- male sex organs. And many exhibits showing-- as the labels said- female reproductive organs. I was lucky enough to know a reporter who was about to do an long interview with Von Hagens, and I asked him to ask why Von Hagens was ignoring women's sex organs.

He replied that he worried it would be presumptive of him, but that so many women had requested it he was going to do them.