are you ready for obama's taxes!

[NeverEndingMe]

holly crap, get ready!

soon, those that work will take a hit on income tax for health care

next, obama will end the Bush tax cuts and give those greedy fuckers in government more money.

then, all this other obama crap.

ouch, it will be a very expensive year!

we need to stop those crack junkies fucktards in government

 

[IndieSnob]

Shadup, Jen.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Shadup, Jen.

so which are you, a government fucktard, or welfare consumer

 

[fgarvb1]

Well, Obamacare is now official, which means that a lot more people in the United States will have health insurance.

And it also means a lot more people will be paying more taxes.

(You didn't think Obamacare was free, did you?)

Here are some of the new taxes you're going to have to pay to pay for Obamacare:


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/taxes-going-pay-pay-obamacare-145413745.html?l=1

 

[BoyNextDoor]

*sigh* Probably long overdue

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Well, Obamacare is now official, which means that a lot more people in the United States will have health insurance.

And it also means a lot more people will be paying more taxes.

(You didn't think Obamacare was free, did you?)

Here are some of the new taxes you're going to have to pay to pay for Obamacare:


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/taxes-going-pay-pay-obamacare-145413745.html?l=1

yeah, kind of sucks. funny how people have their heads in the sand on this one

 

[mercury14]

Well, Obamacare is now official, which means that a lot more people in the United States will have health insurance.

And it also means a lot more people will be paying more taxes.

(You didn't think Obamacare was free, did you?)

Here are some of the new taxes you're going to have to pay to pay for Obamacare:


http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/taxes-going-pay-pay-obamacare-145413745.html?l=1

Those are only taxes for rich people though. And some of the things in your link aren't even taxes at all. Instead of saying "a lot more people are going to be paying taxes now", you should have just said that a certain subsection of the wealthy will be paying slightly more.

 

[coachdb18]

Those are only taxes for rich people though. And some of the things in your link aren't even taxes at all. Instead of saying "a lot more people are going to be paying taxes now", you should have just said that a certain subsection of the wealthy will be paying slightly more.

75% of the new taxes will be falling to those making $120,00 or less....

http://politicalarena.org/2012/07/01/wsj-chief-economist-75-of-all-obamacare-taxes-impact-those-who-make-less-than-120000-a-year-video/

 

[Liar]

75% of the new taxes will be falling to those making $120,00 or less....

http://politicalarena.org/2012/07/01/wsj-chief-economist-75-of-all-obamacare-taxes-impact-those-who-make-less-than-120000-a-year-video/

How much less?

$120,000 is still a shitload of money for most people.

A quick Google tells me only the top 10% earn more than $120k

http://www.mybudget360.com/how-much...reaking-down-the-us-household-income-numbers/

ETA: And that's households, that often have more than one income.

ETA2: Ok, the chart is a little unclear. Seems to be the top 15% that earns 120k. Doesn't change my point though.

 

[mercury14]

75% of the new taxes will be falling to those making $120,00 or less....

http://politicalarena.org/2012/07/01/wsj-chief-economist-75-of-all-obamacare-taxes-impact-those-who-make-less-than-120000-a-year-video/

That's only the tax you pay if you refuse to get health insurance. It's completely optional.

 

[bra_man69]

.

The first, and best known, of these seven taxes that will hit all Americans as a result of Obamacare is the Individual Mandate Tax (no longer concealed as a penalty). This provision will require a couple to pay the higher of a base tax of $1,360 per year, or 2.5% of adjusted growth income starting with lower base tax and rising to this level by 2016. Individuals will see a base tax of $695 and families a base tax of $2,085 per year by 2016.

Next up is the Medicine Cabinet Tax that took effect in 2011. This tax prohibits reimbursement of expenses for over-the-counter medicine, with the lone exception of insulin, from an employee’s pre-tax dollar funded Health Saving Account (HSA), Flexible Spending Account (FSA) or Health Reimbursement Account (HRA). This provision hurts middle class earners particularly hard since they earn enough to actually pay federal taxes, but not enough to make this restriction negligible.

The Flexible Spending Account (FSA) Cap, which will begin in 2013, is perhaps the most hurtful provision to the middle class. This part of the law imposes a cap of $2,500 per year (which is now unlimited) on the amount of pre-tax dollars that could be deposited into these accounts. Why is this particularly hurtful to the middle class? It is because funds in these accounts may be used to pay for special needs education for special needs children in the United States. Tuition rates for this type of special education can easily exceed $14,000 per year and the use of pre-tax dollars has helped many middle income families.

Another direct hit to the middle class is the Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle which is currently 7.5% of adjusted gross income. This is the hurdle that must be met before medical expenses over that hurdle can be taken as a deduction on federal income taxes. Obamacare raises this hurdle to 10% of adjusted gross income beginning in 2013. Consider the middle class family with $80,000 of adjusted gross income and $8,000 of medical expenses. Currently, that family can get some relief from being able to take a $2,000 deduction (7.5% X $80,000 = $6,000; $8,000 –$6,000 = $2,000). An increase to 10% would eliminate the deduction in this example and if that family was paying a 25% federal tax rate, the real cost of that lost deduction would be $500.

The fifth new tax on the middle class, and all Americans, is the Health Savings Account (HSA) Withdrawal Tax Hike. This provision increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10% currently to 20% beginning in 2013. This provision actually sets these accounts apart from Investment Retirement Accounts (IRAs) and other tax advantaged accounts, all of which remain with a 10% early withdrawal tax.

Another regressive tax that is part of this law began in 2010 and that is the Indoor Tanning Services Tax, which places a 10% excise tax on people using tanning salons. While some may regard this as insignificant, the broader implication is that this act of taxation is a blatant move by the federal government to control the behavior of citizens. This provision, as does the Individual Mandate and as Justice Kennedy said during the oral arguments on the constitutionality of the law said, “….fundamentally changes the relationship between the federal government and the citizen.”

The seventh new tax that directly impacts the middle class, along with all citizens, is the Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans or the “Cadillac” Health Insurance Plan Tax. These are plans that provide extensive coverage and that are generally fully paid for, or largely paid for, by employers. This provision imposes a 40% excise tax on the employer-paid premium on taxpayers who are covered by such plans, beginning in 2018. The reason it begins in 2018 is because most unionized workers are covered by plans that fall under this definition and a deferral was made to spare union members from this tax for at least a period of time.

There are thirteen other taxes that apply to businesses and that apply to high income (over $250,000 per year) households. While these additional provisions will not impact the middle class directly, they can have serious indirect consequences for middle and low income earners. Beginning in 2014, the Employer Mandate Tax will impose an annual non-deductible tax on employers with more than 50 employees who do not provide health insurance for their employees.

The impact of this provision on low and middle income earners, and really all working Americans, is that employers will be confronted with three choices. The first is provide some level of health insurance, as many do today, and there would be no impact on employees. The second choice is to pay the penalty, which would most likely be less expensive than providing health insurance, and force employees to seek their own health insurance or purchase it through federal government controlled state exchanges. Studies have estimated that 20 million Americans will lose their employee funded health insurance as a result of this provision and employers electing this option. The third choice is for employers to lay off employees, or not hire additional employees, because Obamacare forces them to either provide health insurance or pay the new tax.

Another new tax, the Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers that begins in 2013, places a 2.3% excise tax on all items retailing for more than $100. This provision will not only drive up the cost of various medical devices ranging from mobility assistance devices to personal testing supplies, but will also impact an industry that employs 360,000 people in 6,000 plants across our country. This tax, while not a direct tax, would have significant negative impact on the middle class.

The Surtax on Investment Income for households earning $250,000 and more, beginning in 2013, will raise the Capital Gains Tax from 15% to 23.8% on investment income for these households and will raise Taxes on Dividends from 15% to 43.4% for the same households. Aside from the impact on retired citizens dependent on dividends, this provision will pull income from the private economy. In addition, the tax rate on Other Investment Income earned by Subchapter S Corporation (which many small business are organized as, allowing the owners to claim all business income as personal income) will rise from 35% to 43.4%. This part of the provision would place additional pressure on small businesses resulting in more layoffs and less hiring, impacting all American workers.

All but one of the remaining new taxes in Obamacare are directed at health industry businesses and while they will not impact middle income families directly, the additional costs will most likely be passed on to the public. The last new tax is really interesting, it is a tax on certain biofuels!

These are the facts. It does not matter if you support Mr. Obama and his new law or if you oppose it, the new taxes on the middle class or real and all Americans should understand their impact on their families and the economy. Citizens, regardless of political beliefs, should recognize that Obamacare was passed with almost no sunlight shined on these middle class tax increases and need to understand that the new law was sold with the promise that there would be no new middle class taxes. This is not partisan, it is simply the reality of politics.

 

[Liar]

What I'd like to see is a simple breakdown. Take a median income family, that's about $50-75K in wages iirc. Assume ma and pa has jobs and are reasonably insured. Which of their taxes go up? Which of their costs? Which of their health insurance plans and options are hampered? And then, what do they gain?

A lot of that may be fuzzy logic and predicions. I'm cool with that. But it would be nice to have someone cut through the logorrhea and bull.

Maybe my Gopgle fu is too weak to find it.

 

[unregistered]

 

[mercury14]

Merc's argument is basically, who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?

No, don't believe me. Just read the law.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What I'd like to see is a simple breakdown. Take a median income family, that's about $50-75K in wages iirc. Assume ma and pa has jobs and are reasonably insured. Which of their taxes go up? Which of their costs? Which of their health insurance plans and options are hampered? And then, what do they gain?

A lot of that may be fuzzy logic and predicions. I'm cool with that. But it would be nice to have someone cut through the logorrhea and bull.

Maybe my Gopgle fu is too weak to find it.

The problem is the hidden, as usual.

Everyone on the top end who has to pay more will collect more by passing the costs downhill.

As government writes its regulations (they are not done yet) the insurance companies will have to pay for them. Nothing in the law says they must keep premiums affordable...

 

[unregistered]

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

According to the SCOTUS Dissent many might be driven from business because they won't be allowed to recover costs.

A not-so-hidden goal.

If you can get them out of business (because they won't be too big to fail ), if you can collapse them [Cloward-Piven] then of course the only recourse if for the government to become that desired single-payer entity that makes your medical decisions base on actuary tables...



Of course, as I learned yesterday in my discussion of the hate towards Capitalism, when the Democrats tell you what the goal is, their supporters have been trained to deny, deny, deny and scream, you lie, you lie, you lie...,

My commitment is to make sure that we've got universal health care for all Americans by the end of my first term as president. I would hope that we can set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don't think we're gonna be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out.
Barack Obama, March 2007, SEIU Health Care Forum


Food for thought:

Yet even then, James Piereson, writing for The New Criterion, predicts that "[t]here will follow an extended period of conflict in the United States between the two political parties as they compete for support either to maintain the post-war system [that emerged out of the New Deal with its emphasis upon national regulation of the economy, social insurance, expending personal consumption, and public debt] or to indentify a successor to it."

The supposition in Piereson's article is that, regardless of which party wins in November, we're in for a long slog between two battling political parties. But is that an inevitable future?

Piereson is president of the William E. Simon Foundation. Simon served in the Treasury departments during the administrations of Presidents Nixon, Ford, and Reagan. Piereson's article, "Future tense, X: The fourth revolution," predicts that the coming "fourth revolution" ([1] Jefferson's revolution of 1800, [2] the Civil War, and [3] the New Deal) will pit Democrats against Republicans.

Piereson writes that Democrats "are in the more vulnerable position because they have built their coalition around public spending, public debt, and publicly guaranteed credit, all sources of funds that appear to be reaching their limits."

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/07/if_the_gop_cavalry_doesnt_come.html#ixzz1zkNslgvN

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

No, don't believe me. Just read the law.

John Conyer advised us against this as it would take a team of lawyers to decipher it...



Do you think Kathleen Sebelius is a lawyer?



She HATES insurance companies...

"Sebelius served as executive director and chief lobbyist for the Kansas Trial Lawyers Association (now Kansas Association for Justice) from 1977–1986. She was first elected to the Kansas House of Representatives in 1986. In 1994 she left the House to run for state Insurance Commissioner and stunned political forecasters by winning – the first time a Democrat had won in more than 10 years. She refused to take campaign contributions from the insurance industry and blocked the proposed merger of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Kansas, the state's largest health insurer, with an Indiana-based company. Sebelius's decision marked the first time the corporation had been rebuffed in its acquisition attempts.[8]"
Wiki

 

[mercury14]

The first, and best known, of these seven taxes that will hit all Americans as a result of Obamacare is the Individual Mandate Tax

Not a tax on the middle class. It's a tax on people who choose to opt out of having health insurance.

Next up is the Medicine Cabinet Tax that took effect in 2011. This tax prohibits reimbursement of expenses for over-the-counter medicine

This is a restriction, not a tax. And I don't think people's over-the-counter Ny-Quil should be tax deductible. And how many people were saving their Ny-Quil receipts all year long?

The Flexible Spending Account (FSA) Cap, which will begin in 2013, is perhaps the most hurtful provision to the middle class. This part of the law imposes a cap of $2,500 per year (which is now unlimited)

Not a tax.

Another direct hit to the middle class is the Medical Itemized Deduction Hurdle

Not a tax on the middle class.

The fifth new tax on the middle class, and all Americans, is the Health Savings Account (HSA) Withdrawal Tax Hike. This provision increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10% currently to 20% beginning in 2013.

Not a tax on the middle-class, nor is it a tax at all. It's a penalty for FSA withdrawals for non-medical purposes. Now it's in line with 401ks. I'm fine with it.

Another regressive tax that is part of this law began in 2010 and that is the Indoor Tanning Services Tax, which places a 10% excise tax on people using tanning salons. While some may regard this as insignificant, the broader implication is that this act of taxation is a blatant move by the federal government to control the behavior of citizens.

Taxing tanning isn't a tax on the middle class. It's a tax on tanning. And stop your whining about the government taxing things to control behavior unless you're going to start a thread about the evils of taxing cigarettes.

The seventh new tax that directly impacts the middle class, along with all citizens, is the Excise Tax on Comprehensive Health Insurance Plans or the “Cadillac” Health Insurance Plan Tax. These are plans that provide extensive coverage and that are generally fully paid for, or largely paid for, by employers. This provision imposes a 40% excise tax on the employer-paid premium on taxpayers who are covered by such plans, beginning in 2018. The reason it begins in 2018 is because most unionized workers are covered by plans that fall under this definition and a deferral was made to spare union members from this tax for at least a period of time.

Not a tax on the middle-class. It's a tax on people with Cadillac plans, which are uncommon. But now you're saying Obama is taxing the hell out of unions? How can that be? We're constantly told by the right how much he coddles them, now he's putting a 40% tax on their health care? Your argument is an incoherent mess.

There are thirteen other taxes that apply to businesses and that apply to high income (over $250,000 per year) households.

Taxes on the rich/ultra-rich aren't taxes on the middle-class.

Studies have estimated that 20 million Americans will lose their employee funded health insurance as a result of this provision and employers electing this option.

Only if you cherry pick your studies, ignoring ones that say otherwise.

Another new tax, the Tax on Medical Device Manufacturers that begins in 2013, places a 2.3% excise tax on all items retailing for more than $100.

Not a tax on middle class families. By the way, medical device manufacturers typically have profit margins in excess of 20%, one of the highest profit-margin industries along with pharmaceuticals. I'm fine with this tax.

The Surtax on Investment Income for households earning $250,000 and more, beginning in 2013, will raise the Capital Gains Tax from 15% to 23.8% on investment income for these households and will raise Taxes on Dividends from 15% to 43.4% for the same households.

Households pulling in over $250,000 per year are not middle class. And now you're including the rollback of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy which may or may not even happen. And you're being deceitful as hell here - you're talking as if that's part of Obamacare when it's a separate thing.

These are the facts.

Lol no. And saying something is true doesn't make it true.

 

[mercury14]

John Conyer advised us against this as it would take a team of lawyers to decipher it...

Oh I get it, you don't have to acknowledge points different than your own unless they're a lawyer. Always inventing ways to avoid taking responsibility for your comments, aren't ya?

How come I can read the law? Why can't you?

Do you think Kathleen Sebelius is a lawyer?

I think cabinet members have access to lawyers, don't you?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

"Not a tax on the middle class. It's a tax on people who choose to opt out of having health insurance."

No, it's a tax on those who opt out over a certain limit.

The other opt-outers get subsidies.

Those who opt out are not the ones flooding the emergencies rooms; they have the ability to pay for services...

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Oh I get it, you don't have to acknowledge points different than your own unless they're a lawyer. Always inventing ways to avoid taking responsibility for your comments, aren't ya?

How come I can read the law? Why can't you?




I think cabinet members have access to lawyers, don't you?

You, you don't "get" it. Perhaps you should slow down and read, I said nothing about points or lawyers...

No, you misread, probably purposely, that quote is me pointing out how Conyer absolved himself of any responsibility; I'm just pointing it out.

The bill itself will not inform you by mere reading for it is an open-ended wish list of desired outcomes, the nuts and bolts, taxes and regulations being left to the interpretation of appointed government bureaucrats...

Even as we speak ObamaClaire McCaskell is running on fixing the flaws of the bill...

 

[mercury14]

The bill itself will not inform you by mere reading for it is an open-ended wish list of desired outcomes, the nuts and bolts, taxes and regulations being left to the interpretation of appointed government bureaucrats...

So you run off to right wing propaganda outlets to get your information. Classic AJ.

Even as we speak ObamaClaire McCaskell is running on fixing the flaws of the bill...

Good. Let's make it better.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

 

[tactful]

In the game of life this might only be a five yard penalty, hopefully, you're not on your own four yard line.