Are you patriotic enough too ...

[sexy-girl]

say something bad about the nation you live in ...


i think that its easy to blindy follow your country sometimes you have to be patriotic enough to say something bad about your country or what your country is doing ... your goverment ISNT your country ... you are your country thats what i believe



so i will start :



i think it sucks how our goverment (england) is handling immigration and specificly how they are saying immigrants need to fit in more and try to be more english ... this is putting the blame on them for the race riots that happened this summer in england ... when it wasnt the immigrants fault it was racist neo-nazi's that "targetted" towns where they knew lots of immigrants were

 

[TygerEyez]

ooh... I doubt alot of people will knock on America, but.... I'll give it a go.

I hate how it takes something as traumatic as the events in September to pull our nation together. We love each other now, and we all say we are Americans (not Texans, not Hoosiers), but how long is it going to last. It sucks that one day, America will forget, and we'll seperate ourselves again.

 

[nasty]

Here, here. Tyger. I'm giving us about a year to start yelling at each other over trite things. And, I'm being optimistic.

 

[bluespoke]

sexy-girl

I hate to be picky but its a British government that wants immigrants to be more British.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would wholly blame immigrants (1st generation or other) fo the riots that happened in Oldham, Bradford etc.

We are all aware of the reprehensible activities of the extreme right in these areas.

I think what the government (and I'm not normally an apologist for them) is trying to get across is that we all need to integrate more. Young children are attending school in Britain, having been born here, and are been taught English as a second language. As a result they are bullied and are at a disadvantage academically.

Cultural differences have meant that their mother's and grandmother's have never been encouraged to learn the language.

I don't see ensuring that all the citizens of this country can speak the language is a particularly bad thing, do you?

I listened to a leading Moslem from one of the northern towns, on radio, this week and by and large he supported what the government were trying to do.

 

[bluespoke]

sexy-girl


But don't get me started in the NHS, the police, politicians, our press, the BBC!

 

[Calamity Jane]

I said in another thread that I think it is more patriotic to speak against your country in times like these than it is to assume the mantle of patriotism and blindy follow our leasers whether we agree with them or not.

I am suspicious of government, I have been for as long as I can remember. I support the military, and the actions they are taking, but that is a far cry from sitting back and saying "trust them, they know what's best for us."

 

[JazzManJim]

ooh... I doubt alot of people will knock on America, but.... I'll give it a go.

Oh I don't think that'll be a problem. In fact, I"m betting that at least four or five folks will hit here with disparaging comments, and if you wanna I'll whisper you their names.

But here's my beef with my government (because I'm pretty good with my country). There's no excuse at all for the power-grabbing that the Federal Govnment has been doing these last three months. Instead of being reasonable and measured, our beloved government (and especially Congress) has gone off like a virgin boy in a cabaret. What cheeses me off even more is that they do so, fully expecting that we will accept their new legislations, and are imperious when we don't. That's just cocky bullshit and it's not only bad for the country, but it's unseemly. It makes us look like a bunch of reactionary hicks who don't have any good sense. Then again, I've never been a big fan of a large central government. That's why I'm a Libertarian. But in the last three months it's gone beyond purely ridiculous.

lav..thanks for posting that article. I was wondering when Lieberman was going to make another move similar to this. You're exactly right...moves to control the citizenry aren't just limited to the Republicans. They're made from every side. The only common theme is that government is good and knows best.

Shit on that.

 

[nasty]

Benn talking to Todd, Pagan?

 

[Calamity Jane]

Benn talking to Todd, Pagan?

pffffft... yup, this here witch is goin all right wing on ya.

Don't worry... the ol copy and paste ain't my style... I prefer the illusion of original thought.

 

[lavender]

 

[sexy-girl]

this thread was spurred on by lavenders earlier thread



nasty/tygereyez/others personally i believe that this is the perfect time you and every american should be willing to say bad things about your country/goverment ... as i said at the start of this thread your goverment isnt your country ... your country has been around a lot longer then your goverment (i'd say same thing if it was democrats in power now) in a years time your country could be very different and worse off if everyone blindly and under false patriotism let's your goverment do whatever they want


i think a person that is willing to say bad things about their country is more patriotic then a person that says "we shouldnt say bad stuff and we should band together" thats just choosing the easy way out ... its more difficult to look into things and decide for yourself and then do something about it


also bluespoke i dont totally disagree what they were trying to say but the way it was said was very close to racism especially when they said that immigrants should beable to name the english cricket team ... and the way what he was saying was being attached to the reason for the riots


pagancowgirl you seem to get my point very well thankyou

 

[daughter]

Are you patriotic enough to say something bad about the nation you live in ...


Anytime. Did so right after the 11th on another site and was attacked big time because I wasn't a flag waving, gun totin' soldier ready to nuke the bastards for blowin' us up.

Folks frontin' and actin' shocked because people in other parts of the world hate us? I was called anti-American for not being shocked that somebody hated us enough to kill thousands of innocent people.

I didn't justify the actions. I said the US has done some outrageous shit to other people that we either deny or don't want to know is true.

Yeah, right. In the great USA, an American woman and child are chased out of grocery store cause their of Arab descent. Our government is interviewing young man based on their ethnicity. A bomb threat was made at a Michigan Muslim school, and a man was killed because he looked 'Arab'(was Indian, but they all look alike, right?). Soon we'll have internment camps all ready and comfy for our fellow Americans.

Then we justify this bullshit because of national security. On "The Practice", Caroline says in her doe-like voice and demeanor, "We're all just scared, Rebecca." Give me a break!

So how's that, sexy-girl?

Peace,

daughter

 

[SINthysist]

I can't say a single bad thing about the nation I live in.

Now, it's government, well, you don't want to get me started. Now over on the left...

 

[nasty]

Ok. You want me to say something bad...Our Founding Father's said, we have "Freedom Of Speech," but, NOW we have this stupid fucking thing called "Censorship." Bah.

 

[bluespoke]

sexy-girl


Both the Tories and Labour have a thing about the England cricket team.

There are about 8 million assorted Scots, Welsh and Irish who couldn't name the England cricket team. Are they not proper citizens. Never mind half the English nation who fall asleep at the mention of cricket. It was a lousy idea thought up by a bitter and twisted politician.

I agree that they have a problem with foot and mouth ...... the keep opening one and putting the other in it!

The other side are just as bad...... reflected by the pathetic turnout at our last election.

They say you get the goverment you deserve, well we must be some real bad bastards to get this lot!

 

[sexy-girl]

Ok. You want me to say something bad...Our Founding Father's said, we have "Freedom Of Speech," but, NOW we have this stupid fucking thing called "Censorship." Bah.

see there you go nasty



and well done daughter i think all you people are getting in the swing of it now just dont like it TOO much


lavender i completely 100% agree with you about perpetuating hatred whatever you think about world policys or isreal this still needs to be thought about


bluespoke i couldnt enen name one player from the english cricket team ian bothem he's about 50 though and played years ago

 

[alexander tzara]

Alexander's Festive Challenge

Good strand. But, I reckon it doesn't go far enough.

It's easy to say something bad about your government, no matter where you live (unless its a Fascist dictatorship - haha). But how many of you are hard enough to openly admit to one characteristic of your nation's people that genuinely embarrasses or disappoints you - your people as a whole, not just your government or one region of the country. If you can't come up with a single fault, you're seriously deluding yourself. If you refuse to answer, you're a big fat scaredy cat pussy (what are you afraid of?), if you give a joky answer, you're also a big fat scaredy cat pussy (why are you having to hide behind a barrier of humour?).

Don't worry - if you find this whole process a bit nerve-wracking, you're allowed one Plus Point for every Negative that you come up with.

Ok, I'll start. Three things that embarrass me about the Scots...

I hate the religious bigotry (especially Protestant vs Catholic) that's ingrained into much of Scotland's psyche. It also embarrasses me how sexist a lot of Scottish society still is, especially in the conservative farming community where I live. (My friend wasn't allowed to bring his wife into a pub just 10 miles away from here, 'cause it was for "men only".) Also, although the Scots can be very down-to-earth, open, and even a bit rude or crude (in Edinburgh, you'll often hear phrases like, "Aye, he's a good cunt" - which is, believe it or not, a term of endearment), I still think there's a lot of sexual prudishness around (probably because of all those pesky Calvinists who took over the country centuries ago).

But, apart from that, I'm so proud of my Scottishness that I'm not even going to bother using up Scottish "Plus Point" tokens. I'll just throw them in the kitty for any of you pussies that feel you need a little more reassurance.

Although, since we're on the subject, I would just like to take this opportunity to mention that Scots gave the world: tv, the telephone, the bicycle, penicillin, chloroform, the first effective steam engine, gas for lighting, the pneumatic tyre, the untrasound scanner, golf (sorry), the milking machine, the mackintosh, whisky (without the "e"), tartan, and Dolly the cloned sheep (sorry again).

 

[MunchinMark]

I can't name the English first XI. But I reckon that there are many cricket fans in Pakistan who can.

Do they get shipped in as I get shipped out?

I'm always pointing out the failings of my government, here and IRL. I have my own sensibilities and I know how I would like policy to go. On the matter of the British anti-terrorism legislation, I am dubious about the new police powers of imprisonment without trial. I would prefer detainment for a certain (short) duration, providing that a reasonable case can be made against the person involved, which is broadly speaking what has already been in place for other comparable cases.

And the quality of being British is merely where our home is. British culture has been a melting pot since before the Romans came to these shores. Even the Victorians acknowledged and cherished their mixed heritage.

As a nation we must be careful about what restrictions are put in place as it will affect the very nature of what it is to be British.

A postscipt for the Americans. I know that the term has been used, but ask yourselves: How can anyone be un-American? Aren't freedom and freespeech at the heart of your national identity?

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

There just aren't enough good frozen yogurt stands in this coutnry anymore.

Aside from that, everything is just swell.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

Except for the whole "two levels of basic cable service." What's up with that?

 

[bluespoke]

Alexander Tzara


Add in a large quantity of parochialism and I agree totally. Its the main reason I think twice about coming home.

 

[alexander tzara]

Hmn. So only the the Scotties'll admit to having non-government based faults? I wonder if that's another one of our faults.

 

[PHANTOM5875]

Munchinmark

Quoting Munchinmark: "A postscipt for the Americans. I know that the term has been used, but ask yourselves: How can anyone be un-American? Aren't freedom and freespeech at the heart of your national identity?"

I strongly agree with your point and I think sometimes we Americans tend to forget one of the most important foundations of this country.

I will stand shoulder to shoulder and defend the right of ANYONE to speak their mind about how they feel about this country even if I disagree with EVERY word that comes out of the maggot's mouth! If I don't stand up for their right to disagree and criticize the USA, then who's next? You? Me? Well, you get the point.

You can say all you want, you think what you want. You can publicly protest until the cows come home but........ DON'T raise your hand against us. If it's that intolerable here for you, get the HELL out and find your own niche out there in the world. There's a lot to choose from. Just don't try to force your particular brand of bullshit down my throat or that of my family.

The ones throwing around the term "Un-American" don't speak for me and mine.

If I can't stand a little criticism and difference of opinion on my country's political postering at a particular time, then I am not very secure myself in what I stand for.

Phantom.

 

[pdx39]

My government is ran by an unelected son of a CIA chief.
My government spends 5 times more on corporate welfare than it does on human welfare.
My government has a tax system that makes me pay more than the Microsoft corporation does.

 

[alexander tzara]

Re: Alexander's Festive Challenge

It's easy to say something bad about your government, no matter where you live (unless its a Fascist dictatorship - haha). But how many of you are hard enough to openly admit to one characteristic of your nation's people that genuinely embarrasses or disappoints you - your people as a whole, not just your government or one region of the country?