Are you allowed to do this?

[LaRascasse]

One of the writers that contacted me today want me to help them with subsequent chapters of a story which is not theirs. I looked up the story to see it is clearly incomplete, the author having abandoned it 3 years ago.

Can you add to someone else's incomplete work?

 

[sr71plt]

Murky waters ethically, but you certainly "can" and get away with it.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

One of the writers that contacted me today want me to help them with subsequent chapters of a story which is not theirs. I looked up the story to see it is clearly incomplete, the author having abandoned it 3 years ago.

Can you add to someone else's incomplete work?

where is the incomplete story? On an SRP thread?

 

[LaRascasse]

where is the incomplete story? On an SRP thread?

No thread. It's an actual storyline with 18 chapters but it needs 4-5 more for a meaningful conclusion.

Still do not know how to respond.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

I told you in chat: any story submitted to Lit is copyrighted. You should contact the author if you want to collaborate and write an ending. To take the parts someon has already written and claim as your own full work is PLAGIARISM

 

[Tio_Narratore]

And it's so nice to see you again, Artina. I was thinking of you last night; I do owe you a missive or two.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

And it's so nice to see you again, Artina. I was thinking of you last night; I do owe you a missive or two.

Hi tio Nothing with evil wings okay...? i have my hands full battling enough demons.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Hi tio Nothing with evil wings okay...? i have my hands full battling enough demons.

On the wings of a snow-white dove...and not even an olive-branch warhead.

Can I battle some of those demons? I could use the exercise; things have been pretty dull around here.

 

[sr71plt]

I told you in chat: any story submitted to Lit is copyrighted. You should contact the author if you want to collaborate and write an ending. To take the parts someon has already written and claim as your own full work is PLAGIARISM

There's no claim the full work would be claimed as LaR and company's own work (which would not be possible anyway--the first part of it is already posted here under someone else's name and LaR and company can't use that name to post what they write).

What is copyrighted is what has already been posted--and only the phrasing in that can be plagiarized. A continuation wouldn't be plagiarism unless it lifted lengthy phrases from the original and reused them. (And names can't be copyrighted and aren't in the realm of plagiarism).

The issue here would be one of ethics, not legality. (Unless aspects of the original story had been trademarked. The likelihood of that hovers so close to zero that you couldn't see the separation.)

 

[LaRascasse]

Excuse me?

LaR and company's work? LaR is just the editor here, not the author. He was contacted by the author from the VE system. He has no intentions of plagiarizing or even continuing someone else's work.

Anyway, I have told that fellow NO!!

That's that....

 

[Artina Heartflash]

There's no claim the full work would be claimed as LaR and company's own work (which would not be possible anyway--the first part of it is already posted here under someone else's name and LaR and company can't use that name to post what they write).

What is copyrighted is what has already been posted--and only the phrasing in that can be plagiarized. A continuation wouldn't be plagiarism unless it lifted lengthy phrases from the original and reused them. (And names can't be copyrighted and aren't in the realm of plagiarism).

The issue here would be one of ethics, not legality. (Unless aspects of the original story had been trademarked. The likelihood of that hovers so close to zero that you couldn't see the separation.)

What if the fellow has published the full story elsewhere...even perhaps an Ebook? The copyright could even be in the LOC as a full story. I stick to my original advice...contact the author if you want to make an ending and publish it... There's NOTHING wrong with that advice.

sheesh, if I'd written 18 chapters of a story, I'd be pissed as hell if someone took my stuff and added it to their own work, with their name, and didn't ask my permission. Especially since my character Artina heartflash is more than fiction...it's my registered pseudonym

 

[sr71plt]

If I were the original author, I'd be pissed too. But that's the ethical part.

The added chapters aren't written by the original author. So, neither copyright nor plagiarism (unless material from the original is repeated verbatim) are the issue here.

And, seriously, there's practically zilch of a chance that the original author formally copyrighted the material anyway (which is the only thing that puts teeth into any protection under law).

Where (legally) by, the way, is your character (or pseudonym) "registered"? (It's trademarking that has legal effect, and I don't see a chance in hell you managed to get an erotica character trademarked--or even tried to). People on the Internet tend to erroneously think--and act like--their activity on the open Internet is legally protected by something mystical and hope-based out there.

 

[PennLady]

What if the fellow has published the full story elsewhere...even perhaps an Ebook? The copyright could even be in the LOC as a full story. I stick to my original advice...contact the author if you want to make an ending and publish it... There's NOTHING wrong with that advice.

sheesh, if I'd written 18 chapters of a story, I'd be pissed as hell if someone took my stuff and added it to their own work, with their name, and didn't ask my permission. Especially since my character Artina heartflash is more than fiction...it's my registered pseudonym

Whoa, whoa. If the person has published elsewhere as an e-book, or anything else, I'm not sure it even has any bearing on the question. The poster was asking about finishing an existing story, not claiming it for their own. And I've seen it done. Personally, I think it could be taken as flattery, that you created something that meant enough to someone that they took the time to propose an ending.

I'd also say that if you publish something and leave it unfinished for three years, you're taking your chances. If you get it published, then take it down; most publishers would probably want you to do that anyway. There's nothing wrong with contacting the author, this is true, but people write about characters developed by others all the time -- look at all the fan fiction out there. That's similar.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

Where (legally) by, the way, is your character (or pseudonym) "registered"? (It's trademarking that has legal effect, and I don't see a chance in hell you managed to get an erotica character trademarked--or even tried to). People on the Internet tend to erroneously think--and act like--their activity on the open Internet is legally protected by something mystical and hope-based out there.

Several years ago I had written several pieces under the author name of "artina heartflash". They were registered at Library of Congress for copyrights (paid with fee), under that author pen name. They were autobiographical; Heartflash is author and character.

yes I have the documentations in a safety deposit box.

 

[sr71plt]

Several years ago I had written several pieces under the author name of "artina heartflash". They were registered at Library of Congress for copyrights (paid with fee), under that author pen name. They were autobiographical; Heartflash is author and character.

That doesn't either copyright or trademark those names. You can't copyright a name (in reference to specificially this, check out author names--or character names, for that matter--on Amazon. You'll find many duplicates). And you can only trademark a name (which is a different process and government office from copyrighting) if you can prove substantial business investment in the business use of that name and substantial financial loss by someone else using that name. They don't hand out trademarks like candy.

You aren't legally protected from anyone else using that name/character.

But you can certainly try to bluff others--and fool yourself--with this line of reasoning, if you like.

 

[PennLady]

Several years ago I had written several pieces under the author name of "artina heartflash". They were registered at Library of Congress for copyrights (paid with fee), under that author pen name. They were autobiographical; Heartflash is author and character.

yes I have the documentations in a safety deposit box.

That's good for you, and more of us should probably do it. However, most people probably don't. And for the original question, we're talking about a partial story. It's possible that the original work is complete and simply not all posted. It would be great if the original poster could contact the author and get permission, but that may not work.

ETA: Based on SR's reply, it definitely appears most of us don't know what we think we do about copyright.

 

[PennLady]

I googled "How to copyright a story," and found the following links. I cannot vouch for them but I thought I'd throw them out there. They say all the things I've heard, but that doesn't mean that they are correct.

http://www.ehow.com/how-does_4964182_copyright-a-story.html

http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

ETA: This is probably more useful. http://www.copyright.gov/

 

[sr71plt]

First, because the Brits are probably about to arrive, let me note that this discussion thus far has assumed it's the U.S. market. British copyright is different from U.S. copyright.

But for this discusssion, we might as well go to the horse's mouth--the U.S. Copyright Office. You can read for yourself below on what the U.S. Copyright office has to say about copyrighting names:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#what_protect

 

[Artina Heartflash]

First, because the Brits are probably about to arrive, let me note that this discussion thus far has assumed it's the U.S. market. British copyright is different from U.S. copyright.

But for this discusssion, we might as well go to the horse's mouth--the U.S. Copyright Office. You can read for yourself below on what the U.S. Copyright office has to say about copyrighting names:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html#what_protect

Thanks. I'll call them tomorrow regarding trademarks.

 

[Artina Heartflash]

another question

How safe are the SRP and other 'workshop" threads as far as legal binds?

Let's imagine a person begins a story on a forum thread. Two or more people contribute to the story as it unfolds. Then someone (be he lurker, public browser or even participant on the SRP) reading it sees potential market, takes the story(or portions) and publishes it as his own.

On the original post(s) at the forum, the time and date have been set at upper left by Lit systems. This cannot be altered, right? Would that time and date of the original post of story material hold as proof of copyright, and the user name be proof of author?

 

[elfin_odalisque]

That doesn't either copyright or trademark those names. You can't copyright a name (in reference to specificially this, check out author names--or character names, for that matter--on Amazon. You'll find many duplicates). And you can only trademark a name (which is a different process and government office from copyrighting) if you can prove substantial business investment in the business use of that name and substantial financial loss by someone else using that name. They don't hand out trademarks like candy.

You aren't legally protected from anyone else using that name/character.

But you can certainly try to bluff others--and fool yourself--with this line of reasoning, if you like.

I hesitate to stir you from your primeval swamp but you are completely wrong. All the Harry Potter names were oficially trademarked before the first edition appeared - no requirement for 'substantial investment in business use' is required. Also, apart from your buttock-clenching comments, there is a legal defense of 'passing off' that stops others pretending they have a right to use your characters. That's why Lit takes a chance allowing the Celebs cat.

sr comes back in the frame here when he questions why would major conglomerates pursue people of straw who publish illegal fan-fiction .

The civil courts deal with dollars not criminality. Unless you can show you have suffered a financial loss, the court will throw your case out - even if you've registered copyright.

That's what sr is trying inarticulately to say. The civil courts will willingly compensate financial loss but wounded pride or indignation has no financial value.

 

[PennLady]

I would note that Rowling is British and I gather there are different requirements for copyright, etc., there. Not sure how that would cross the pond, but it's worth remembering.

 

[sr71plt]

I would note that Rowling is British and I gather there are different requirements for copyright, etc., there. Not sure how that would cross the pond, but it's worth remembering.

Not only that, but I separated this discussion from British practice in post #18.

Elfin is just being her usual dopey self.

 

[sr71plt]

How safe are the SRP and other 'workshop" threads as far as legal binds?

Let's imagine a person begins a story on a forum thread. Two or more people contribute to the story as it unfolds. Then someone (be he lurker, public browser or even participant on the SRP) reading it sees potential market, takes the story(or portions) and publishes it as his own.

On the original post(s) at the forum, the time and date have been set at upper left by Lit systems. This cannot be altered, right? Would that time and date of the original post of story material hold as proof of copyright, and the user name be proof of author?

This is the open Internet with folks playing their roles with assumed names and dropping material for free read. There's no legal angle to much of anything happening here.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

I would note that Rowling is British and I gather there are different requirements for copyright, etc., there. Not sure how that would cross the pond, but it's worth remembering.

Yes, PL, copyright is wildly different because we in the US won't sign up to the Berne convention. Still, any European writer goes through the hoop to register copyright, trademark and financial interest in the US. As I said before, Western courts look to compensate for financial loss.