Are you a passive or agressive poet (or passive-agressive)

[CharleyH]

Seeing a lot of the poets just write out of no where (Tzara, Chippy and many others) and being impressed, I've been thinking about what sort of poet I am. I can write good poems and even great ones, given the chance and time, but it doesn't come easy for me. I can't just drum up something off the top of my head. For all intents and purposes, I am a passive poet.

What I'd like to know, or be privy to, is how you great poets do it. Do you have a game, trick, process? What is it! How do all of you (my list isn't short, and includes practically everyone on the PH) do it! Pointers to help us wee people, please.

 

[butters]

first off, just because i'm replying first doesn't mean i think i'm a great poet. more a realistic one, i hope, with neither false modesty nor an inflated opinion of my own writings.

i struggle with the concept of forms - part of me enjoying the process as a learning curve and part of me feeling like the anxious schoolkid sure they'll never be able to sort out the mathematics of it all. when i forget all that, and just see the images, feel them, then the words sort of suggest themselves to me anyway. some forms arrive a whole load easier than others - the ones that mimic natural speech patterns more closely than others, either rhyming or not. the insecurities i experience are more about my unfamiliarity with some of the stuff you guys have off pat here, and my lack of background knowledge, having no formal poetic training or groundings in the basics some of you may have aquired through university education and from reading far more deeply of the classics than i may ever find the time or inclination too.

so, apart from my love of the language - which in itself has posed problems with words dictating to me rather than my being in control of them - i rely on imagining, feeling, then i write it allowing sound to be the basis of the words used though i don't sit there weighing each till after the writing's down. then i will sit and think and read and edit. as far as i am able. i think it's important for the author to allow the voice of the poem to be paramount; this may often override their own particular views or more general style of writing. the voice of the poem allows it to stand on its own feet, as an individual.

like how your brain might go blank when someone fires quiz questions at you, i am frequently overwhelmed if someone slings a challenge my way - it's only when i get past that initial stupidity and allow myself to relax physically that my mental cogs get into gear and things start firing. the most natural way for me to write is when something's been niggling away under my skin for a while and then arrives just about fully formed, or something sparks an immediate reaction so strong that writing feels a natural extension of expressing what's forming with that response.

and i still read most the poets here and feel humbled, joyous for being privileged enough to read the fruits of such creative minds, and inspired to want to improve and grow as a writer.

tricks? i've played 'find interesting words and use them' with dictionaries before; the challenges are brilliant to stir a sluggish mind; and often i find the critiquing of another's write might stir new ideas in my own boggy brain.

 

[Angeline]

Hi there dear Charley; hugs to you and L.

I hesitated to respond because of the "great poets" moniker, too. I think I've written some great poems, but I can always do better. Learning (and working on learning) is always more important to me than anything else. You know when I first came to this forum, the person who introduced me heralded me as a "genius," which of course made most folks here dislike me right off the bat. I certainly don't consider myself a genius, if anything I can be quite dense at times, and my personal life is no example of genius, so beware labels!

I'm naturally un-aggressive. I hate conflict--it's something I have real issues with (and that I need to work on about myself). But I'm not passive either; I just go my own way and follow my own interests. I think I'm naturally introspective. I've always enjoyed being alone as much (or more) than being with anyone else. I love to read and I love to think. I can remember when I was a little kid my mom would think I wasn't feeling well because I'd just be sitting in my bedroom for hours--or sitting on this bench in our backyard (or sitting in a tree I had climbed). But I was fine--I was just entertaining myself with my imagination. I find my thoughts interesting, always have. That, coupled with a deep love of learning means that I'm writing and studying something (poetry or other subjects) every day. It's just who I am. Writing helps me organize my thoughts. Although I'm verbally articulate, I've always found that writing gives me better self-awareness than thinking, reading or talking. I think daily writing is important for my mental/emotional well-being.

As for tricks, my best advice is not to overthink when writing, let go and let the words flow wherever they will. I usually write the first draft of a poem in minutes, and then spend significantly more time editing it. I find if I can get myself in a meditative sort of mental space when I do that first draft, I'm in a zone where my subconscious is more active. This, of course, is much harder to do with form than free verse, but if I know a form very well, where I don't have to stop and think "whaddo I do next," I can channel then, too. I can write a servicable poem, maybe some would even think a decent poem, if I force it and rely on tricks of experience, but far and away my good poems do not come from that. They come from being in that zone when I'm writing.

As you know music is a big motivator for me, and really helps me get in that open kind of mood where the words flow. Sometimes I read others' poems to give me ideas, and I often start with a line or phrase borrowed from somewhere else to get me started. I don't keep it; it's just a trick to get me going.

 

[Xelebes]

Definitely aggressive and active for me.

 

[greenmountaineer]

As has been mentioned previously, I do not consider myself to be an accomplished poet. I do like to think I am an improving one, but time will be the better judge of that.

I tend to start aggressively and in many cases wind up more passive in my attitude. For example, I dislike hypocrisy, and an initial draft will have my finger pointing at something or someone. However, I spend much more time editing, and in the process discover that I could just as well be pointing that finger at myself. In that regard, my writing is often therapuetic or, perhaps better said, healing.

I still try to make sense of it all. That too, I suppose, can be aggressive. After all, if you figure out what the problem is, you should do something to correct it, right? Nonetheless, in the end I often accept the senseless or mysterious as just what is. Who ever said there should be no suffering in life? It is still a wonder.

As to what inspires me, I still don't know. Sometimes, it's as simple as a conversation over a relaxing dinner with my wife who, more than once, made an innocent comment about something that started me thinking.

I have two tricks, however, that seem to supply me with what I need. In the first place, I read poems and a lot about the nature of poetry (as I am now in this thread, thanks to your original post). In the second place, once I have a draft completed, I'll create a two column table in the Word document. Then I'll play with revisions to a line or stanza in the right column and can compare that with the original in the left column. If I prefer the revision, I'll cut and paste it into the left column, and then I'll continue to revise the poem, using the same process. Doing this repeatedly seems to put me in that zone of thought where time passes quickly and writing is so enjoyable.

 

[Palba_Noruda]

I'm not a poet but I can't pass up a discussion about process.

I copy other people's topics, approaches, and forms.

I use found words.

I try to write three similes per day, because I believe similes are mini-metaphors and metaphors are all that language and writing are about.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I'm the odd one that loves the forms, I love the structure with the added almost adrenalin rush of getting my words to fit into them, it feels great to actually get them right. At one time we used to have teach ins on different forms that I had never heard of and I looked forward to giving them all a go. Some I fear though i.e the Japanese forms go right in one ear and out the other side without stopping! So I actually did enjoy being told what to write and the subject, it made me write which is a good thing in my case, it's so easy to coast along fiddling here and there but not really doing anything. I'm a lazy so and so I need to be pushed a bit to get going!
BTW Charley, Chippy and Remec I've just set you a form challenge, I shall be very interested to see what you come up with and hope other poeple will join in too

 

[CharleyH]

I'm the odd one that loves the forms, I love the structure with the added almost adrenalin rush of getting my words to fit into them, it feels great to actually get them right. At one time we used to have teach ins on different forms that I had never heard of and I looked forward to giving them all a go. Some I fear though i.e the Japanese forms go right in one ear and out the other side without stopping! So I actually did enjoy being told what to write and the subject, it made me write which is a good thing in my case, it's so easy to coast along fiddling here and there but not really doing anything. I'm a lazy so and so I need to be pushed a bit to get going!
BTW Charley, Chippy and Remec I've just set you a form challenge, I shall be very interested to see what you come up with and hope other poeple will join in too

You are one of the poets who can drum up something so quickly that has us lackies quivering. However, I mentioned Tzara because I really admire his way ... his ease, calm, his domination over form ...

PS: WHAT! WHERE?! I accept.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

HERE

and I agree about Tz his thread a while back taught me about form

 

[CharleyH]

I searched and I searched and couldn't find your form challenge. Link me, please!

ETA: Ah, you read my mind. That's no easy feat.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

I just linked it above your head lol look up! ROFL you found it!

 

[bflagsst]

I thought I was passive, so I haven't written too many poems this year. I plan on returning to poetry every day. Being aggressive and forcing poems and forcing process leads to many poems, some turn out fantastic, just push the crappy ones under the rug.

I can be inspired and think about a poem but it usually ends up, 'yes later I'll write it.' But later on I'm over it. Passive hasn't worked for me.

 

[CharleyH]

I thought I was passive, so I haven't written too many poems this year. I plan on returning to poetry every day. Being aggressive and forcing poems and forcing process leads to many poems, some turn out fantastic, just push the crappy ones under the rug.

I can be inspired and think about a poem but it usually ends up, 'yes later I'll write it.' But later on I'm over it. Passive hasn't worked for me.

The good thing is that you sometimes write fabulous poetry that you are proud of, and that we wee people salivate over. Looking forward, bflagg.

 

[CharleyH]

Shit, babe. By now you must know that any poet who is better than me is a great poet in my books! Never shy away from the words I use, I'm simply excitable and enjoy telling poets when they are good or bad.

Nevertheless, I have no bones about discussing those I admire. Why can't I? If I'm free to say that I admire Proust or Carroll, why am I not free to say I love poets like you or Tzara when I, and everyone else on here, know you are good. I'm proud of poets like you or Tzara or Lauren or Chippy and at times others like UYS and Remec. Why can't I be? What's wrong with adoring one poem over another or even one poet over another?

PS: Don't think me angry, I am not. This is just a discussion. Kisses and give our love to EE. xo