Are we just smarter?

[DeepGreenEyes]

A Lit friend who occasionally lurks on these boards sent me an observation recently:

"The one thing I will say for those I have seen on the BDSM scene here is that they seem like a pretty intelligent and well-spoken group overall. It's actually made me curious whether this is just my impression, a coincidence with the people who post here, or fairly accurate for the community as a whole... and if so, what is it about domination and submission that would draw those of above average intelligence to it?"

I recently posted a Dan Savage podcast where the discussion at about the 35-minute mark was about the "nerd/kink" connection. The Domme's take is that nerds, in part, like to make things as complicated as possible, and love to overthink everything: "What can I do to make this more interesting? What can I do to make this different?" It's an interesting segment.

Are we smarter? Is the rest of Litdom dumber? Or is it just that those who are wired for BDSM are OCD enough to double check their grammar and google questionable spelling?

In any event, I asked my friend if I could post her questions anonymously here, and see what happens. Thoughts, smarty pants?

Or is that smarty pantses?

 

[JMohegan]

Are we smarter? Is the rest of Litdom dumber? Or is it just that those who are wired for BDSM are OCD enough to double check their grammar and google questionable spelling?

No, no, and no.

"We" are prone to dismissal of the relatively simplistic-minded, and spelling or grammar-challenged, as posers or wannabes or school kids out on break. This dismissal is open and explicit, and the remaining group is therefore self-selecting.

 

[DVS]

Are we smarter? Is the rest of Litdom dumber? Or is it just that those who are wired for BDSM are OCD enough to double check their grammar and google questionable spelling?

Smarter? Maybe some of us are, but I can't say to the forum as a whole. Is the rest of Lit dumber? Well, I could point out a few names that I think are, but other than that, hell if I know. Are we BDSMers OCD? I can't say for anyone other than myself. I have Firefox, and it has spell check. Just something like that can make someone seem pretty damn smart, or even a little OCDish, depending on how you look at it.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

No, no, and no.

"We" are prone to dismissal of the relatively simplistic-minded, and spelling or grammar-challenged, as posers or wannabes or school kids out on break. This dismissal is open and explicit, and the remaining group is therefore self-selecting.

Hmmm...Then isn't self-selection for the ability to embrace complexity a form of control for intelligence?

I was really hoping I could pad my MENSA application with enough posts here.

Smarter? Maybe some of us are, but I can't say to the forum as a whole. Is the rest of Lit dumber? Well, I could point out a few names that I think are, but other than that, hell if I know. Are we BDSMers OCD? I can't say for anyone other than myself. I have Firefox, and it has spell check. Just something like that can make someone seem pretty damn smart, or even a little OCDish, depending on how you look at it.

I think she means that the quality of conversation on the BDSM boards seems greater than that on the rest of Lit. With which I would largely agree. She's attributing that to intelligence, but maybe it's attributable to something else, such as an intensely shared interest, or that those interested in BDSM have done a little more reflection. I'm not sure. And maybe comparing this board to Lit is not a terribly high standard.

 

[BiBunny]

You're drawing from a biased sample. People who don't express themselves well with words don't tend to hang out on message boards. Tell your friend to wander over to CollarMe and read the profiles there to see all the illiterates in action.

Also, there have been studies done on the makeup of the BDSM "lifestylers." (Hate that word.) The majority of them/us are upper-middle class professionals. Therefore, it stands to reason that most of them/us are well-educated, thus would (presumably) be better able to express them/ourselves than others.

 

[MisterSir]

Are we smarter? Is the rest of Litdom dumber? Or is it just that those who are wired for BDSM are OCD enough to double check their grammar and google questionable spelling?

I'm going to say yes. You guys can be modest and talk about other reasons, but the fact we don't tolerate the parade of morons most of the other sub-boards do makes us at least a little bit better than them.

 

[graceanne]

. This dismissal is open and explicit, and the remaining group is therefore self-selecting.

Pretty much. If a person isn't a good speller, or able to express themselves through the written word they won't do well in a forum like this. Add to that that there are some VERY smart people on this forum, who are also very intolerant of posts that are difficult to read or understand. It pretty much means you have to be able to at least come off as smart to make it in this forum.

Tell your friend to wander over to CollarMe and read the profiles there to see all the illiterates in action.

QFT

Also, there have been studies done on the makeup of the BDSM "lifestylers." (Hate that word.) The majority of them/us are upper-middle class professionals. Therefore, it stands to reason that most of them/us are well-educated, thus would (presumably) be better able to express them/ourselves than others.

The reason, I think,t hat most of them/us are upper middle class professionals is because BDSM is EXPENSIVE. Doing it cheaply is not easy (as I can testify to).

 

[JMohegan]

Hmmm...Then isn't self-selection for the ability to embrace complexity a form of control for intelligence?

Your hypothesis, as I understood it, is that kinky people tend to be smarter than non-kinky people. To support his hypothesis, you reference Lit BDSM. Yet, here, we tend to disqualify kinky people for reasons having nothing to do with actual kink. So your use of Lit as an example to support your hypothesis makes no sense.

BiBunny put this better than I did. I'll add that observation of kinksters, in real life, belies the notion that kinky people are somehow smarter.

People are people. Kinksters don't tend to be more or less intelligent; they're just scattered on a spectrum of intelligence, like everyone else.

 

[BiBunny]

The reason, I think,t hat most of them/us are upper middle class professionals is because BDSM is EXPENSIVE. Doing it cheaply is not easy (as I can testify to).

Good Lord, yes. That makes perfect sense to me.

 

[midwestyankee]

If you and your friend are relying, in part, on the perception that the discussions in the BDSM Forum are more intelligent than elsewhere at Lit, then I have to assume that you aren't spending much time in the Authors Hangout or the GLBT forum. Comparisons with the GB and the Playground are inherently biased.

Now, as for the question about the relative intelligence of the general population of folk with a preference for bdsm, I question the assertion that bdsm-ers are any more intelligent than the norm. As the bunny said, participation in online forums tends to self-select for the verbally informed. My experiences in the Chicago area kink community, while somewhat limited in time, have put me in contact with a few hundred kinksters. Trust me, there's no skew toward the more intelligent in this sample. The bunny alluded to some kind of study showing that folks who practice bdsm tend to be more educated than the general public. I doubt it and would be interested in seeing the actual data from which that inference was drawn.

 

[graceanne]

[hijack]

Am I the only one who sees threads like this and wants to turn it into a fluff discussion. Just for shear perversity?

[/hijack]

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Your hypothesis, as I understood it, is that kinky people tend to be smarter than non-kinky people. To support his hypothesis, you reference Lit BDSM. Yet, here, we tend to disqualify kinky people for reasons having nothing to do with actual kink. So your use of Lit as an example to support your hypothesis makes no sense.

BiBunny put this better than I did. I'll add that observation of kinksters, in real life, belies the notion that kinky people are somehow smarter.

People are people. Kinksters don't tend to be more or less intelligent; they're just scattered on a spectrum of intelligence, like everyone else.

I'm not making a hypothesis. I'm asking for thoughts. It sounded to me like your initial statement was referring to Lit BDSM, not kinky people in general.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm not making a hypothesis. I'm asking for thoughts. It sounded to me like your initial statement was referring to Lit BDSM, not kinky people in general.

I referenced Lit BDSM, because you stated that observation of this group was the root of your friend's questions.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

 

[BiBunny]

If you and your friend are relying, in part, on the perception that the discussions in the BDSM Forum are more intelligent than elsewhere at Lit, then I have to assume that you aren't spending much time in the Authors Hangout or the GLBT forum. Comparisons with the GB and the Playground are inherently biased.

Now, as for the question about the relative intelligence of the general population of folk with a preference for bdsm, I question the assertion that bdsm-ers are any more intelligent than the norm. As the bunny said, participation in online forums tends to self-select for the verbally informed. My experiences in the Chicago area kink community, while somewhat limited in time, have put me in contact with a few hundred kinksters. Trust me, there's no skew toward the more intelligent in this sample. The bunny alluded to some kind of study showing that folks who practice bdsm tend to be more educated than the general public. I doubt it and would be interested in seeing the actual data from which that inference was drawn.

I think I inferred the education part of it. I did read something, like, two days ago about most "lifestylers" self-identifying as upper-middle class. It could have very easily been too small a sample to draw meaningful conclusions, though.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

If you and your friend are relying, in part, on the perception that the discussions in the BDSM Forum are more intelligent than elsewhere at Lit, then I have to assume that you aren't spending much time in the Authors Hangout or the GLBT forum. Comparisons with the GB and the Playground are inherently biased.

Yep. Forgot these.

I referenced Lit BDSM, because you stated that observation of this group was the root of your friend's questions.

What are your thoughts on the matter?

Oh, I'm far too intolerant of complexity to have thoughts on this matter.

 

[Keroin]

If you and your friend are relying, in part, on the perception that the discussions in the BDSM Forum are more intelligent than elsewhere at Lit, then I have to assume that you aren't spending much time in the Authors Hangout or the GLBT forum. Comparisons with the GB and the Playground are inherently biased.

The folks on the poetry board are well written and brainy as well...and, IMO based on my limited experience there, a little more chilled and inclusive than us BDSMers.

 

[insert____here]

the people who post in the theme specific areas of forums tend to be more polite, respectful and open to other's mistakes than say the general board or the playground.
i'm not sure that this is a result of intelligence, rather that if someone is conversing in a theme orientated forum segment, then usually it's because they need reasonable answers to serious questions. you won't get that if you're rude or judgemental.
it also helps that the people on the BDSM LIT forum tend to have rather self deprecating sense of humour.

but if your friend wants to see immature kink in action head over to fetlife or collarme. sheesh.

 

[Netzach]

A Lit friend who occasionally lurks on these boards sent me an observation recently:

"The one thing I will say for those I have seen on the BDSM scene here is that they seem like a pretty intelligent and well-spoken group overall. It's actually made me curious whether this is just my impression, a coincidence with the people who post here, or fairly accurate for the community as a whole... and if so, what is it about domination and submission that would draw those of above average intelligence to it?"

I recently posted a Dan Savage podcast where the discussion at about the 35-minute mark was about the "nerd/kink" connection. The Domme's take is that nerds, in part, like to make things as complicated as possible, and love to overthink everything: "What can I do to make this more interesting? What can I do to make this different?" It's an interesting segment.

Are we smarter? Is the rest of Litdom dumber? Or is it just that those who are wired for BDSM are OCD enough to double check their grammar and google questionable spelling?

In any event, I asked my friend if I could post her questions anonymously here, and see what happens. Thoughts, smarty pants?

Or is that smarty pantses?

I find most people in kink who think they're smarter than the mere vanillas to be the people with emotional/sexual issues they are still blaming on vanilla. The "my marriage sucked because he was vanilla" not of course ever because you were a neurotic demanding non communicative BPD jerk, or he was, just because he was inferior vanilla.

My friends tend to be really smart people, kinked or not. Period.

 

[midwestyankee]

I think I inferred the education part of it. I did read something, like, two days ago about most "lifestylers" self-identifying as upper-middle class. It could have very easily been too small a sample to draw meaningful conclusions, though.

Yes, but about 2/3 of all people self-identify as being in the upper middle class, as well as having above-average intelligence and driving ability, I think we know the reliability of anyone's self-identification.

 

[midwestyankee]

The folks on the poetry board are well written and brainy as well...and, IMO based on my limited experience there, a little more chilled and inclusive than us BDSMers.

Right on both counts.

 

[Netzach]

I have encountered a great deal of smart-stupid in SM. People who can argue physics for 8 pages but can't make cup o' noodles kind of stuff.

 

[midwestyankee]

I have encountered a great deal of smart-stupid in SM. People who can argue physics for 8 pages but can't make cup o' noodles kind of stuff.

Too bad, because that cup of noodles would be perfectly submissive to their need for nourishment.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

[hijack]

Am I the only one who sees threads like this and wants to turn it into a fluff discussion. Just for shear perversity?

[/hijack]

Nope.

Braiiiiiins.... want braiiiiiiinz....

Seriously, though, I do find that one exceptional thing about the BDSM board is its skill at dealing with drama and trolls. The drama factor here is much lower and the trolls get much less satisfaction around here than they do most other places on lit.

I think the reason for this is perhaps the same reason that this bunch comes across as smarter, and it has to do with a set of characteristics I've watched in groups that self-identify as part of any radical or alternative sexual culture.

Mind you, this is only my personal theory, but I think that what separates a lot of people here is that they are introspective enough and self-aware enough, and courageous enough, to be able to evaluate their sexuality and decide to try radical new things and even change large portions of their lifestyle to accommodate the things they want from their sexual life.

That implies that folks in this group tend to be somewhat more self-aware, more concrete and confident about who they are and what they want, and that they are also willing to be brave enough to buck sexual convention and the cultural norm.

I haven't hung out on the GLBT board here but I might suspect that there is a similar vibe there. It takes a certain amount of self-knowledge and courage to come out, and that is going to create a population that may tend to be more confident, less insecure, less prone to be defensive about trollishness, that sort of thing.

I'm just throwing this out there. Certainly happy to be argued with. But I've been more impressed with the amount of intelligent conversation here than anyplace else on Lit (yes, including the AH - over there it tends toward the Dueling Monologue thread, which is NOT the same as an actual dialogue.)

Perhaps too, as we explore various aspects of our roles and self-images here and within BDSM, we come to a better understanding about how we are assisted by dialogue with others. It's so much easier to find oneself within this 'lifestyle' when one can get feedback and education; it might be said that education is quite necessary for some aspects of BDSM, in order to play safely. So the group becomes in general more interactive, more willing to listen and dialogue, and eventually more self-confident and less drama-plagued as a result.

 

[chy_girl]

I don't think it's a matter of intelligence so much as tolerance. There's been many times online and in real life that I've seen BDSM people just shrug and move on in the conversation with the understanding that one person's fart is another person's fetish. That's not to say that we don't have our fair share of arguments, but even those tend to be less volatile, for lack of a better word, than on other forums.

Do BDSMers have a higher than average IQ? I'd say our bell curve is about the same, but I might venture to say that we can be a bit more creative in our thinking - if only because of the price of our toys.

Let's face it, people in glass houses shouldn't covert nude on top of the piano doing gorilla impersonations... but we do. And my gorilla impersonation makes it awfully silly to poke my neighbor about their pony impersonation.

That being said, the GB is a place I happily avoid. It's a little like a food fight in a middle school cafeteria. Here is comfy and warm and gracie usually has cookies stashed somewhere.

 

[intothewoods]

Bdsm board v. rest of lit does not equal kinky people v. population at large. I know that was said, but I had to say it again!

I have heard the bit about kinky people being more nerdy than most, but I live in nerd central, so it's tough to judge. And it's so true that nerds aren't always so smart in other areas of their lives.