Are we going to make them register for the Draft?

[renard_ruse]

I doubt it, but only the world shadow government knows for sure. I think the main purpose for putting a few women in combat is to send the message that men are unnecessary, superfluous and ultimately inferior. Its mainly symbolic, like same sex "marriage." Few same sex'ers even want to get a "marriage" contract. These things are about sending the psychological message that sex roles and the differences between men and women don't exist anymore. Part of the goal is to re-make all humans, or humyns, in the image of the United Nations Faceless Brown Person of Tomorrow, de-genderized, de-ethnicized, de-nationalized, de-religionized, and more easily compliant to the world overlords.

 

[mercury14]

I doubt it, but only the world shadow government knows for sure. I think the main purpose for putting a few women in combat is to send the message that men are unnecessary, superfluous and ultimately inferior. Its mainly symbolic, like same sex "marriage." Few same sex'ers even want to get a "marriage" contract. These things are about sending the psychological message that sex roles and the differences between men and women don't exist anymore. Part of the goal is to re-make all humans, or humyns, in the image of the United Nations Faceless Brown Person of Tomorrow, de-genderized, de-ethnicized, de-nationalized, de-religionized, and more easily compliant to the world overlords.

YOU are unnecessary and inferior. You even appear to view yourself as such. Actual men aren't though.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Of the 800,000 people on active duty in the Army and Marines, how many of them actually do that? And of those that actually do that, how often is it for real and not just role playing?

Let's be honest here - even though we've been 'at war' (someone who stormed the beach in Normandy may disagree with the characterization) for a decade, and have probably rotated 5 million people through the 'war zones', how many were actually in combat?

Very few actually....

Now how many of our top military officials have been through advanced warfare schools and have the most experience and training with regard to conducting warfare operations? All of them. If you were a combat troop would you be very inspired by your new leadership who just transferred from the parts office of a motor pool?

Plz...everyone will be waiting for just 1 dumb ass order to throw their shit down and say "Fuck that send me to jail." Respect and loyalty within the ranks (something needed for the military to function) are earned...not bestowed and there is no policy that can change that. You can try...it will end in disaster.

If a woman want's to be a leader she's going to have go earn her place among other leaders. "Because you're a female" is not good enough to wear stars on your chest/headgear.

When you take the total number of troops and divide by the number of combat deaths over the past 10 years, some cities in the US have a higher death rate.

Much ado about nothing.

If everyone in America drove 1114's and wore full body armor 24/7 I would agree with you. Without those two things our casualty rating would be phenomenal...right up there with Vietnam.

That might be someone's motive for the change but how is Ish so sure there aren't more than one motive or reason for the change?

There might be...but that is the primary one...fairness/equal opportunity, what's the problem with that? I mean other than the fact it isn't fair/equal at all and will probably cost a dear fucking toll when Miss. I only have to do 18 push ups b/c I'm a girl suddenly finds herself totally fucked because of it.

 

[mercury14]

There might be...but that is the primary one...fairness/equal opportunity, what's the problem with that? I mean other than the fact it isn't fair/equal at all and will probably cost a dear fucking toll when Miss. I only have to do 18 push ups b/c I'm a girl suddenly finds herself totally fucked because of it.

Ish's point isn't that the change is happening because of fairness. He's saying it's because of the career ambitions of a tiny group of elites.

There isn't a separate physical standard for women and no women are suggesting that there be one.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Ish's point isn't that the change is happening because of fairness. He's saying it's because of the career ambitions of a tiny group of elites.

Ok....

There isn't a separate physical standard for women and no women are suggesting that there be one.

Pure bull fucking shit....women's max PT standards are at or just above 1/2 what male minimum standards are, go look it up day day.

Sorry but I don't trust anyone who only has to do 19 push up's to make the cut to be able to be able to do the job, it's simply not possible...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5xQOtqrjOJI/T7VFS46TfOI/AAAAAAAADkk/4IY81vN84xo/s320/army+military+physical+test+protocol+performance+navy+seals+workout+training+pushups+pullups+fireman+carry+endurance+lean+muscle+boot+camp.jpg

Would you trust Miss 19 push ups to carry your 6'2" 400lb geard ass out of the shit when you catch a round to the knee?

 

[mercury14]

Ok....



Pure bull fucking shit....women's max PT standards are at or just above 1/2 what male standards are, go look it up day day.

Sorry but I don't trust anyone who only has to do 19 push up's to make the cut to be able to be able to do the job, it's simply not possible...

Nobody's talking about PT testing.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Nobody's talking about PT testing.

Oh I assure you EVERYONE in combat arms is talking about PT testing....and how women not being performing to the combat MOS standards is going to get people fucking killed in the name of "fairness".

 

[JohnnySavage]

Ok....



Pure bull fucking shit....women's max PT standards are at or just above 1/2 what male standards are, go look it up day day.

Sorry but I don't trust anyone who only has to do 19 push up's to make the cut to be able to be able to do the job, it's simply not possible...

I've never been in the army... but how often is one called upon to do more than 19 push-up's when in combat?

 

[BotanyBoy]

I've never been in the army... but how often is one called upon to do more than 19 push-up's when in combat?

Never...it is however fairly common that you be strong enough to carry 120lbs of shit while doing your job and be able to carry your 180-250lb buddy and his 120-180 lbs of shit on your back while still fighting....that is the job. If you can't do more than 19 push up's or even 42 (female max compared to the male 77)how the fuck are you supposed to do the job? How are your team mates supposed to trust you to have their back when shit get's real??

 

[JohnnySavage]

Never...it is however fairly common that you be strong enough to carry 120lbs of shit while doing your job and be able to carry your 180-250lb buddy and his 120-180 lbs of shit on your back while still fighting....that is the job. If you can't do more than 19 push up's how the fuck are you supposed to do the job?

So you are saying every single man with a combat MOS (whatever that is) can carry 120lbs of shit while doing your job, carry your 180-250lb buddy and his 120-180lbs of shit while still fighting?

I'm going to have to call BS on both the fitness of every single man in combat, as well as the ramboesq job description.

 

[mercury14]

Oh I assure you EVERYONE in combat arms is talking about PT testing....and how women not being performing to the combat MOS standards is going to get people fucking killed in the name of "fairness".

Which PT testing are we talking about here. I've worked mostly with USAF, Navy, and some Army, rarely Marines. Specific types of combat/field units have a higher PT standard than the branch itself. Right now there's no separate women's PT standard for front-line combat units because there are no women in them.

Are you saying the military is going to go out and create a lower standard for women in those roles? Where are you hearing that?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Which PT testing are we talking about here. I've worked mostly with USAF, Navy, and some Army, rarely Marines. Specific types of combat/field units have a higher PT standard than the branch itself. Right now there's no separate women's PT standard for front-line combat units because there are no women in them.

Are you saying the military is going to go out and create a lower standard for women in those roles? Where are you hearing that?

I can't speak for the rest b/c I'm to lazy to look up their shit but Army wide women have to do about 1/2 what the boys do, the sit up standards are close or the same but upper body/run? Not even close...


Will they make combat arms the exception and make the ladies bust out 72+ push up in 2 min just like the boys? LOL doubtful. That wouldn't be fair, which is unfortunate b/c it's going to degrade the women who really can hack it and make all the guys resent the fucking shit out of their female team members.

 

[mercury14]

I can't speak for the rest b/c I'm to lazy to look up their shit but Army wide women have to do about 1/2 what the boys do.

Will they make combat arms the exception and make the ladies bust out 72+ push up in 2 min just like the boys? LOL doubtful. That wouldn't be fair.

PT standards are different for women in the USAF as well and different depending on age.

From what I'm hearing in the news there's currently no separate standard for women. Maybe they'll make one but I think if it's significantly different there would be a lot of backlash.

 

[BotanyBoy]

PT standards are different for women in the USAF as well and different depending on age.

From what I'm hearing in the news there's currently no separate standard for women. Maybe they'll make one but I think if it's significantly different there would be a lot of backlash.

http://www.howtopasstheapft.com/apftpushup.jpg

I'm not linking all of them but here is the push up score card for the APFT....as you can see women are not held to the same standards as men in the army.

It's an old image...but you can see the new one here...same shit.

http://www.military.com/military-fi...ements/army-physical-fitness-test-score-chart

 

[mercury14]

That chart doesn't apply to certain units with higher standards though. If a male soldier passes the PT test but can't carry his 65-lb pack very far before collapsing it means he can't be in an infantry unit. Why would it be different for women?

 

[JohnnySavage]

Here's what I can find about the Army Physical Fitness Test: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/a/afpt.htm

It has different requirements for men and women, as well as adjustments for age.

Is there a separate standard for combat troops?

 

[hogjack]

How can these women in combat keep up with the enlisted military fat-guys running supply warehouses?

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Here's what I can find about the Army Physical Fitness Test: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/a/afpt.htm

It has different requirements for men and women, as well as adjustments for age.

Is there a separate standard for combat troops?

Infantry units use the same score system, just higher standards. Less than a 285 (95% per category) and you up shit creek. They will triple your PT for a few months and bust your ass to get you there. But if you fail again, goodbye....

Every unit can set its own standards. There are some females out there that could do the PT. But there are also timed road marches. The minimum standard is 12 miles in 2 hours with full gear. If a girl can do that she would probably be better off in the olympics......

 

[VaticanAssassin]

That chart doesn't apply to certain units with higher standards though. If a male soldier passes the PT test but can't carry his 65-lb pack very far before collapsing it means he can't be in an infantry unit. Why would it be different for women?

It should not be. Of course your 65lb pack is ridicolous.....

But they currently have different PT standards so it is a valid concern.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Infantry units use the same score system, just higher standards. Less than a 285 (95% per category) and you up shit creek. They will triple your PT for a few months and bust your ass to get you there. But if you fail again, goodbye....

Every unit can set its own standards. There are some females out there that could do the PT. But there are also timed road marches. The minimum standard is 12 miles in 2 hours with full gear. If a girl can do that she would probably be better off in the olympics......

But aren't there other jobs considered "combat" that aren't infantry? Aren't those the positions being opened to women? Bradley Manning was in a combat unit, but I doubt he could lift 50 lbs. Presumably there are some 'combat' jobs closed to women now, that don't have the stringent physical requirements of those actually on the tip of the spear.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

But aren't there other jobs considered "combat" that aren't infantry? Aren't those the positions being opened to women? Bradley Manning was in a combat unit, but I doubt he could lift 50 lbs. Presumably there are some 'combat' jobs closed to women now, that don't have the stringent physical requirements of those actually on the tip of the spear.

I mentioned this in another thread..... I would have no issue with a girl driving a M-1 or in a artillery unit. Once again, as long as they could physically pick up and load a shell.

Now instead of hitting up the tankers to buy smokes or pogey bait, they could offer other services as well....

 

[BotanyBoy]

That chart doesn't apply to certain units with higher standards though. If a male soldier passes the PT test but can't carry his 65-lb pack very far before collapsing it means he can't be in an infantry unit. Why would it be different for women?

Because they are women....if you make a double standard for them in PT you have to adjust physical standards for them all around. Instead of a 65lb pack 12 miles in 3 hrs it will have to be 37lb and 12 mi in 5 hrs....because that's fair.

Either that or hold make unilateral physical standards for combat MOS's, but we can't do that b/c it would make the female population scarce as all hell and all the "It's not FAIR!" crowd would bitch and moan.

Here's what I can find about the Army Physical Fitness Test: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/a/afpt.htm

It has different requirements for men and women, as well as adjustments for age.

Is there a separate standard for combat troops?

If you don't want to wind up 1SG or XO's coffee bitch or ever want to go to any schools or have a career for that matter there is.

But aren't there other jobs considered "combat" that aren't infantry? Aren't those the positions being opened to women? Bradley Manning was in a combat unit, but I doubt he could lift 50 lbs. Presumably there are some 'combat' jobs closed to women now, that don't have the stringent physical requirements of those actually on the tip of the spear.

Sure combat engineers, artillery, combat medics (<--infantry standards for thos attached to INF units) they can get into now...but even they are extremely physically demanding jobs to the extent that if they don't make sure the girls can do everything the guys are doing it's going to cause a lot of issues far beyond what and what is not fair.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Doesnt matter. Dump them into combat and let survival of the fittest sort them out. I expect death to do the job.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Doesnt matter. Dump them into combat and let survival of the fittest sort them out. I expect death to do the job.

The only issue with this is how many other soldiers do they get killed? In a Infantry unit you truly are dependent on you buddy next to you to do his job. His/Her failure will cost you your life 9 times out of 10.

 

[BotanyBoy]

The only issue with this is how many other soldiers do they get killed? In a Infantry unit you truly are dependent on you buddy next to you to do his job. His/Her failure will cost you your life 9 times out of 10.

All female units....get a few hundred girls together, drop them in the meat grinder and let them find out what fairness is all about.