Are trans politically invisible?

[HarlotMinx]

I had this discussion recently with some friends at HRC and the LGBT taskforce. We see all these articles condemning gays and lesbians, throwing of scripture and laws, and so on and so on. But I swear for the life of me, I can't find a single article against transgender individuals when I surfed the various antigay activist sites (I like to surf them to see who they're mad at so I know where to send my emails of support to). I mean I found ONE article that had a one line mention of how if gays get their ways transvestites will be teaching our children but beyond that it's like trans individuals fly bellow the radar. I mean, not that their isn't discrimination, harassment, attacks, and whatnot just... I never see anyone quoting bible verse to condemn trans individuals or campaigns to strike down their right to transition. Is it that the bible really has no scripture so it's begrudgingly accepted or is it the amount of general acceptance of transexuals by the medical community? I think it's a bit odd, it's not like their isn't the same discrimination just that they don't broacast it upfront. I mean when ENDA first tried passing I remember their was that weirdness where HRC kind of just dropped them quietly and didn't discuss it much.

 

[Etoile]

Trans people are seen as politically inconvenient for the gay cause, that's for sure. I think most anti-queer people don't even think about the issue, but when they do, it's more horrific than gays and lesbians, so G&L push trans to the sidelines to get what THEY want. Yup.

 

[HarlotMinx]

Trans people are seen as politically inconvenient for the gay cause, that's for sure. I think most anti-queer people don't even think about the issue, but when they do, it's more horrific than gays and lesbians, so G&L push trans to the sidelines to get what THEY want. Yup.

Charming.

Mind you, not that many trans people would complain that they don't have to deal with lobbying to remove legal gender transitions in their states... god that'd be a nightmare, would they nullify gender transitions like they do marriages? My only real concern, if the anti-gay groups went after transexuals legal right to transition... do you think the LGB organization would fight for them?

 

[Etoile]

Hmm. If history were the only basis, I would say yes. Gays and lesbians would all remember what their drag sisters did at Stonewall, and would return the favor.

In the real world...I dunno. Baltimore's gay and drag communities are tight but I'm not sure about elsewhere. As an "overall" big picture thing...well, I think they might. Gender expression is not the same as sexual orientation, but the two are linked. I'd like to think the right thing - fighting for equality for ALL - would happen.

 

[Safe_Bet]

I'm pretty sure that the run of the mill gay and lesbian (especially the lesbians cuz we seem to get along better with TGs in general) would fight the good fight.

The "elders" (aka the senior membership of the HRC, etc.) not so much. They are enjoying their cocktails at the White House too much to endanger them by actually standing up for what is right. I couldn't find it, but "Champagne" Joe Solomese said, a while ago, something to the effect that TGs should just shut up and wait for the lesbians and gays to get their equal rights first... THEN we can work on getting theirs.

P.S. BULLSHIT Joe, you traitorous bastard. Time for you to resign your freakin' 300K a year cushy assed job and live with the people for a while.

 

[Gi_Venus]

I had this discussion recently with some friends at HRC and the LGBT taskforce. We see all these articles condemning gays and lesbians, throwing of scripture and laws, and so on and so on. But I swear for the life of me, I can't find a single article against transgender individuals when I surfed the various antigay activist sites (I like to surf them to see who they're mad at so I know where to send my emails of support to). I mean I found ONE article that had a one line mention of how if gays get their ways transvestites will be teaching our children but beyond that it's like trans individuals fly bellow the radar. I mean, not that their isn't discrimination, harassment, attacks, and whatnot just... I never see anyone quoting bible verse to condemn trans individuals or campaigns to strike down their right to transition. Is it that the bible really has no scripture so it's begrudgingly accepted or is it the amount of general acceptance of transexuals by the medical community? I think it's a bit odd, it's not like their isn't the same discrimination just that they don't broacast it upfront. I mean when ENDA first tried passing I remember their was that weirdness where HRC kind of just dropped them quietly and didn't discuss it much.

Trans are numerically inconsequential, there are not enough trans to be a viable political force. So as such we are not a threat.

 

[none2_none2]

Trans people are seen as politically inconvenient for the gay cause, that's for sure. I think most anti-queer people don't even think about the issue, but when they do, it's more horrific than gays and lesbians, so G&L push trans to the sidelines to get what THEY want. Yup.

I don't think all are of the same mind. Some anti-gay people see the trans as weird but deserving of pity -- not hated. Late in the 70's trans made the headlines. Two that come to mind are Renee Richards, the optometrist who had barriers with playing women's tennis. Also I remember one of the very last episode of the long running Medical Center TV series, was about a doctor who wanted a sex change -- played by the father from the Brady Bunch.

Plenty of straight guys in my high school saw nothing wrong with the trans women. The typical response was: "Transexuals as females go are kind of ugly, but at least they have pussies so it isn't like sex with them would make you a fag." There are lots of guys whose big hang up with is with homosexuality, but if some surrenders their gender and has the right equipment for nut/bolt sex, then it is weird but not gross.

I think for many such men, being a penis owner gives them a feeling of superiority. However, if a penis owner has any interest in another penis or penis owner, then that diminishes their own collective sense of superiority. I think that is why fag, cocksucker, cunt, bitch, pussy, asshole, etc are all derogatory terms for many in society. Where as stud, pussylicker, fucker (unless it is MOTHER fucker -- incest taboo) aren't considered derogatory. Now while prick & and dickhead can be derogatory, they are more derogatory as meaning lacking in brains -- not sexual inferiority. So for someone who has sex with a transsexual is still on top of the world. Where as if it is sex with another guy, both are supposed to be acting like guys and having guy parts, yet either one or both are considered that they may have surrendered their masculinity and come down from their position of masculine, mechanical superiority.

I'm sure everybody knows that Iran is more tolerant of transsexualism than homosexuality. We all think of the Ayatollah Khomeini as being a very repressive person, yet one unusual soft spot was that he thought transsexuals need compassion -- and the surgery.

 

[John Doe]

I don't think all are of the same mind. Some anti-gay people see the trans as weird but deserving of pity -- not hated. Late in the 70's trans made the headlines. Two that come to mind are Renee Richards, the optometrist who had barriers with playing women's tennis. Also I remember one of the very last episode of the long running Medical Center TV series, was about a doctor who wanted a sex change -- played by the father from the Brady Bunch.

Plenty of straight guys in my high school saw nothing wrong with the trans women. The typical response was: "Transexuals as females go are kind of ugly, but at least they have pussies so it isn't like sex with them would make you a fag." There are lots of guys whose big hang up with is with homosexuality, but if some surrenders their gender and has the right equipment for nut/bolt sex, then it is weird but not gross.

I think for many such men, being a penis owner gives them a feeling of superiority. However, if a penis owner has any interest in another penis or penis owner, then that diminishes their own collective sense of superiority. I think that is why fag, cocksucker, cunt, bitch, pussy, asshole, etc are all derogatory terms for many in society. Where as stud, pussylicker, fucker (unless it is MOTHER fucker -- incest taboo) aren't considered derogatory. Now while prick & and dickhead can be derogatory, they are more derogatory as meaning lacking in brains -- not sexual inferiority. So for someone who has sex with a transsexual is still on top of the world. Where as if it is sex with another guy, both are supposed to be acting like guys and having guy parts, yet either one or both are considered that they may have surrendered their masculinity and come down from their position of masculine, mechanical superiority.

I'm sure everybody knows that Iran is more tolerant of transsexualism than homosexuality. We all think of the Ayatollah Khomeini as being a very repressive person, yet one unusual soft spot was that he thought transsexuals need compassion -- and the surgery.

When are you going to learn to shut up? "Motherfucker" has nothing to do with incest. It's just another way of calling someone an asshole. It implies that they fuck other people's...

Never mind. If you couldn't figure this out for yourself you probably won't believe me anyway.

 

[Etoile]

Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, Tits

 

[HarlotMinx]

Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, Tits

I just had my delicate innocence ripped away from me.....
You know... I never thought motherfucker was really a insult anyone wanted to throw around, you never know just who's mother they've been fucking and things could get a little awkward.

 

[none2_none2]

It implies that they fuck other people's...

mea maxima culpa

"Origins

The term gained tremendous traction during World War II, originally amongst black American GIs, and was applied literally to American soldiers (black, white, or otherwise) in war-torn Europe who would trade food, money, or anything of value for sex with desperately poor or starving French and German women. Many of these women were home-makers whose husbands had been conscripted away, killed, or imprisoned, leaving the women to support the couple's children alone. Many lacked trade skills, and the war damaged the local economies so badly that they had few, if any, alternatives.

So calling a man a "mother fucker" meant that he was A) taking advantage of poor and downtrodden people with no options, and B) incapable of seducing non-desperate women. Anyone with experience growing up in desperate poverty, or who saw his own parents humiliated by circumstances beyond his control, would probably consider that type of behavior to be degrading."

When are you going to learn to shut up?

After you

 

[John Doe]

mea maxima culpa

"Origins

The term gained tremendous traction during World War II, originally amongst black American GIs, and was applied literally to American soldiers (black, white, or otherwise) in war-torn Europe who would trade food, money, or anything of value for sex with desperately poor or starving French and German women. Many of these women were home-makers whose husbands had been conscripted away, killed, or imprisoned, leaving the women to support the couple's children alone. Many lacked trade skills, and the war damaged the local economies so badly that they had few, if any, alternatives.

So calling a man a "mother fucker" meant that he was A) taking advantage of poor and downtrodden people with no options, and B) incapable of seducing non-desperate women. Anyone with experience growing up in desperate poverty, or who saw his own parents humiliated by circumstances beyond his control, would probably consider that type of behavior to be degrading."


After you

Okay, you just admitted you were wrong then go on to say you'll shut up after I do. Is that supposed to make sense?

By the way, using Latin will not change my opinion that you are an idiot.

 

[none2_none2]

Okay, you just admitted you were wrong then go on to say you'll shut up after I do. Is that supposed to make sense?

By the way, using Latin will not change my opinion that you are an idiot.

Well considering you keep your head up your ass and are wrong most of the time, I wouldn't expect you have much of a valid opinion anyway.

If you expect me to desire your favorable opinion in the future, then you need to work on your comprehension skills -- not to mention your personality skills too. Can you come out of your hole long enough to understand that?

 

[John Doe]

Shit, Piss, Fuck, Cunt, Cocksucker, Motherfucker, Tits

Now use them in sentences. Extra points for using more than one in the same sentence. For example, "you are a piss-drinking son of a circus whore" is worth the minimum number of points but "shut the fuck up, you motherfucking cocksucker" would be worth more than the total score for three sentences with one in each.

I'll make up the exact figures for the scoring system as we go along.

 

[Etoile]

Now use them in sentences. Extra points for using more than one in the same sentence. For example, "you are a piss-drinking son of a circus whore" is worth the minimum number of points but "shut the fuck up, you motherfucking cocksucker" would be worth more than the total score for three sentences with one in each.

I'll make up the exact figures for the scoring system as we go along.

You'll have to ask George Carlin.