Are our troops walking into a trap??

[The Heretic]

I have had this nagging feeling for a few days now with the rapid advance of our troops that they just might be walking into a trap.

For one thing they keep bypassing some strongholds rather than taking them on - which is okay if that is all that is happening. However, the Iraqis seem to be pulling back in an organized fashion, although there have been some clashes and even a couple of ambushes. That is a big desert out there, and we are now approaching Bahgdad as I write this.

That makes me nervous. We are advancing with open flanks which is a dangerous thing to do, add on to that the kicker; there are over one hundred thousand hard core regular army Repbulican Guard unaccounted for. No one seems to know where they are, including the US military.

Are the Republican Guard hidden someplace waiting to attack our flanks? I have no doubt that whatever happens the US will be victorious, but I don't want our troops to be killed unecessarily because they were rushing to take Bahgdad and take down the "regime" when we should have been taking down their military instead.

The regime is the political target, but the Iraqi military is what poses the real threat should they decide to pull a fast one.

Someone please tell me I am totally misreading the situation.

 

[Blindinthedark]

I'm sure that we've only seen the surface of the Iraqi war plan.

The real fighting will be in Baghdad.

 

[ma_guy]

I had pretty much the same feeling earlier today. The Iraqi's seem to be melting into their surroundings as US troops get near. I suspect a lot more of them will be popping up froim behind the lines. This is one of the tactics used by the Taliban in Afganistan when they fought with the Soviets.

 

[Sterling]

I feeling that all these surrenders and easy fights were to expand US military egos and I figure they will walk into a chemical firestorm trap set by Sodamn Insane.

 

[Guest]

 

[LadyG]

I found it so strange watching the footage of Baghdad and no people anywhere.

However, it's know that there are so many tunnels and underground bunkers, I wouldn't be surprised to see so some sort of attempted ambush now.

 

[just pet]

It has started already

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030323-051332-5578r

U.S.: Iraqis fake surrender, kill Marines
By Pamela Hess
Pentagon correspondent
From the International Desk
Published 3/23/2003 5:27 PM
View printer-friendly version


WASHINGTON, March 23 (UPI) -- An Iraqi military unit Sunday faked a surrender to a U.S. Marine unit but then opened fire as they approached near Nasiriyah, just one fight in a day of pitched battles marked by what military officials called "ruses" on the part of Iraqi forces, according to Central Command military officials.

"As our forces moved to receive this surrender in an honorable way, they were attacked and sustained casualties," said Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks, deputy operations officer at Central Command, at a briefing Sunday in Qatar.

Fewer than 10 Marines are reported to have died in the battle. An unspecified number of others were wounded. Embedded news crews say as many as 50 Marines were wounded.

The Marines destroyed eight tanks, some anti-aircraft batteries along with "a number of infantry" said Lt. Gen. John Abizaid, deputy commander of coalition forces in Iraq.

"The Marines were successful, they defeated the enemy," Abizaid said.

"It was one of the few times we've seen regular forces fight," he said. "Suffice it to say it was a very sharp engagement."

The fake surrender was one of several incidents "in which there were types of behavior only I can only describe as ruses," Abizaid said.

A Pentagon official said Saturday that 700 Iraqi troops were in surrender formation waiting for U.S. troops to arrive. It was not clear Sunday whether those were the same Iraqi forces who attacked the Marines.

In one incident Iraqi troops raised a flag of surrender but then launched an artillery attack. In another troops disguised in civilian clothes appeared to welcome U.S. forces and then ambushed them, he said.

"The coalition encountered pockets of determined resistance by irregular Iraqis forces, who in some cases fought in civilian clothes or in modified commercial vehicles," Brooks said.

"We, of course, will be much more cautious in the way that we view the battlefield as a result of some of these incidents," said Abizaid.

Irregular Iraqi forces ambushed an unprotected convoy of U.S. supply vehicles in southern Iraq when it apparently took a wrong turn. A Marine combat unit arrived at the end of the battle, rescuing the "remnants of the convoy" and fighting off the remaining Iraqi forces. The ambush left six vehicles demolished. Four soldiers who survived the ambush were evacuated for medical treatment, Abizaid said.

 

[just pet]

I found it so strange watching the footage of Baghdad and no people anywhere.

However, it's know that there are so many tunnels and underground bunkers, I wouldn't be surprised to see so some sort of attempted ambush now.

People are staying in their homes. Afraid to go into any crossfire and afraid to leave their homes for fear of being burglerized.

 

[just pet]

I fear we will see suicide bombs, and road side bombs everywhere

Including in the States...

 

[The Heretic]

Re: It has started already

I have heard of these incidents, but those are small scale skirmishes. I am talking about a number of divisions unnacounted for - at least that is what I have heard (what the military knows and what is reported on TV may be totally different).

 

[Blindinthedark]

Good post Pet.

But all's fair ... yadda

And it's not as if the US has acted in a wholly honorable way by using superior air power. But that’s the reality of war. Use what ever strategy you can to gain victory.

 

[The Heretic]

Good post Pet.

But all's fair ... yadda

And it's not as if the US has acted in a wholly honorable way by using superior air power. But that’s the reality of war. Use what ever strategy you can to gain victory.

There is a difference between using overwhelming military force, and using the pretense of surrender to launch an attack. The former is honorable in and of itself, the latter is not.

 

[Blindinthedark]

There is a difference between using overwhelming military force, and using the pretense of surrender to launch an attack. The former is honorable in and of itself, the latter is not.

Not in the opinion of those being attacked.

 

[somethingcatchy]

what we know is not important. we know nothing that the coalition generals already don't know. It's their job and I don't think they will take any unnececary risks.

 

[The Heretic]

Not in the opinion of those being attacked.

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on that count then.

 

[Blindinthedark]

I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on that count then.

yep guess we are.

But let me ask you this:
What is a nuclear threat if not the ultimate counter attack in a last ditch effort to defend your country?
The Iraqis are using everything they can do defend their country.
I'm not saying it's right. It shouldn't be unexpected.

 

[The Heretic]

what we know is not important. we know nothing that the coalition generals already don't know. It's their job and I don't think they will take any unnececary risks.

I have confidence in our military, but they have made mistakes before, and I don't think they are infallible. Moreover, it wouldn't be the first time that the military was directed by political rather than military goals.

While I will agree I am woefully uninformed as to the situation there, a number of people who are better informed and who have more experience in such situations have mentioned (at least in passing) that advancing with open unprotected flanks is a risky thing to do.

 

[just pet]

Is fairness an element of war?

 

[The Heretic]

yep guess we are.

But let me ask you this:
What is a nuclear threat if not the ultimate counter attack in a last ditch effort to defend your country?

That depends on the situation; there are a number of criteria which would need to be taken into account.

The Iraqis are using everything they can do defend their country. I'm not saying it's right. It shouldn't be unexpected.

I didn't say we should expect enemies to fight by our "rules" - just that most of the civilized world has agreed that certain things just aren't done during war, and using a faked surrender to launch an attack is one of those things.

 

[bad kitty]

I have had this nagging feeling for a few days now with the rapid advance of our troops that they just might be walking into a trap.

For one thing they keep bypassing some strongholds rather than taking them on - which is okay if that is all that is happening. However, the Iraqis seem to be pulling back in an organized fashion, although there have been some clashes and even a couple of ambushes. That is a big desert out there, and we are now approaching Bahgdad as I write this.

That makes me nervous. We are advancing with open flanks which is a dangerous thing to do, add on to that the kicker; there are over one hundred thousand hard core regular army Repbulican Guard unaccounted for. No one seems to know where they are, including the US military.

Are the Republican Guard hidden someplace waiting to attack our flanks? I have no doubt that whatever happens the US will be victorious, but I don't want our troops to be killed unecessarily because they were rushing to take Bahgdad and take down the "regime" when we should have been taking down their military instead.

The regime is the political target, but the Iraqi military is what poses the real threat should they decide to pull a fast one.

Someone please tell me I am totally misreading the situation.

*sigh* I have thought of this too. I pray that isn't the case. I do know that there are many plans and conditions that we aren't aware of. Thankfully.

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Is fairness an element of war?

Nope.

The purpose of a war is to break your enemy's will to resist.

Feel free to use whatever method is necessary.

 

[The Heretic]

Is fairness an element of war?

Not always, but much of the world holds that there are certain lines you just do not cross; you don't fake a surrender, and you don't torture or execute prisoners.

 

[just pet]

Not always, but much of the world holds that there are certain lines you just do not cross; you don't fake a surrender, and you don't torture or execute prisoners.

I seem to remember some feisty rebels not playing by the rules of European battle when confronted by another George's red coated army...

 

[Lancecastor]

War is hell and is never played by the Marquis of Queensbury Rules.

I think you should assume they are headed into rivers of blood and gore...and you'll get to see a lot of it live on Al Jazeera!

 

[RosevilleCAguy]

Not always, but much of the world holds that there are certain lines you just do not cross; you don't fake a surrender, and you don't torture or execute prisoners.

Not unless you discount the possiblility of being taken prisoner yourself.

There are two, possibly inter-related scenarios taking place if this becomes widespread.

1) The will of Iraqi soldiers seems to be pretty weak. It will grow considerably if the US starts shooting surrendering Iraqis.

2) I dont think the folks giving the orders expect to survive, so they dont care.