Are Doms more creative than subs?

[GobletHolly182]

This question has been nattering in the recesses of my mind for years, I think, but I just managed to articulate it.

I have a wide submissive streak and a smaller sadistic one, and I actively despise my own need for control. Upshot is that I don't consistently identify with either submission or domination, even though I'm definitely interested in D/s.

One attraction of submission to me is relinquishing the responsibility for everything, giving everything over to someone else and being able to focus on just doing whatever they say/want well, to the best of my abilities. But on the flip side, one thing that puts me off about submission is a weird sort of jealousy over the Dom getting to think up the rules and all the moves, the blocking, the script (rules meaning for a scene; I get that the overall parameters are determined mutually). It makes me feel like the sub's role is easier, less valuable. Like the sub is contributing less, cause they're just following directions.

It's like I don't want the performance anxiety, but I want to be good at the Dom side. I want to be good at everything, and I do see how annoying that sounds as I write it. But I'm competitive. I know that if a Dom came up with something creative, I would think 'oh, cool!' and then I'd wrack my brain to think of something even more awesome.

Thoughts? Does D/s ever work if the sub has better ideas than the Dom, and wants credit?

 

[Redkate]

One partner I had used to make me come up with my own punishments when I had broken a rule or didn't do what he asked. He would say "how are you going to make it up to me?" so in that case he made me responsible for creating my own punishments. He would then decide if it was good enough or sometimes tweak it to his liking, so he still maintained the control. If he liked what I suggested it made me feel good because I pleased him in my response.

So it can work if the sub is more creative I think. And Doms shouldn't be expected to come up with all the ideas, unless they want to.

Also, as a sub, you can suggest things you'd like to try in the moments that are out of the BDSM time. I don't think that's an issue.

 

[JustaSCOUNDREL]

I can't speak for all Doms, but I am more than willing to listen to my subs ideas or suggestions and tell her she had a great idea if I like it. I have discovered over the years even though an idea may not do much for me as an idea once I tried it I did like it.

So count me as a vote for listening to a sub.

Mike

 

[Stella_Omega]

Are you talking about dominance and submission in your relationship, or are you talking about topping and bottoming in a scene or in bed?

 

[GobletHolly182]

Thanks for the responses.

RedKate, I like the idea of the subs having to come up with their own punishments, and Mike, I'm glad to hear that a sub's ideas can be used and valued. I like the idea of being mentally challenged, as well as physically.

Stella, I meant in a scene, and the question was hypothetical as I'm not in a relationship.

Thanks all!

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

It's logical to think PYL control and creativity in a scene (blech I hate that phrase) go together, and I suppose they often do.

But they don't have to. My husband is simply not creative in the "gee what should I do to you tonight" sort of way, for a variety of really boring reasons. It was frustrating for both of us for a long time, until we hit upon a solution: when the mood strikes him, it's up to me to provide a list of things we could do. Sometimes he wants the list verbally, and I'll have to name things until he tells me to stop; other times he tells me to write out a list with a specified number of scenarios and give it to him. No bonus points are awarded for listing the same things over and over again (in other words, for my lack of creativity over time), and he's not pleased if I include too many things I like but that I know he dislikes.

Sometimes he chooses directly from the list, sometimes he mixes and matches from various things I've listed, and other times what I've said or written makes him decide he wants to do something else entirely.

I admit it's a strange situation, but as he often jokingly says, I'm providing a valuable service as his "mental rolodex of porn." It probably wouldn't work for a lot of people, and at times, I find it frustrating, but it's one solution for how you can get things to work when the creativity roles simply do not line up along PYL/pyl roles.

 

[missgiter]

I think that it depends on the relationship, basically. In some relationships, that balance would be ok... but it sounds like for you that it wouldn't be ok. So just find the balance that works for you. If you feel the need to be some part of the creative influence... then do so .

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

Creativity is one trait in a list of many that we seek out in relationship exchanges of all sorts. I know for me it is critical because my creative part of me has to breathe and work hard in order for me to thrive. I have found that people that would not describe themselves as creative would probably struggle to understand this about me and the relationship would suffer for it. I think at the very minimum that for a sustainable relationship that they would have to match my level of creativity even if it was in areas of creative aptitude quite different from mine.

 

[rosco rathbone]

I'm not all that creative. I have a narrow window of obsessions that I just repeat and repeat.

 

[Brunne]

This question has been nattering in the recesses of my mind for years, I think, but I just managed to articulate it.

I have a wide submissive streak and a smaller sadistic one, and I actively despise my own need for control. Upshot is that I don't consistently identify with either submission or domination, even though I'm definitely interested in D/s.

One attraction of submission to me is relinquishing the responsibility for everything, giving everything over to someone else and being able to focus on just doing whatever they say/want well, to the best of my abilities. But on the flip side, one thing that puts me off about submission is a weird sort of jealousy over the Dom getting to think up the rules and all the moves, the blocking, the script (rules meaning for a scene; I get that the overall parameters are determined mutually). It makes me feel like the sub's role is easier, less valuable. Like the sub is contributing less, cause they're just following directions.

It's like I don't want the performance anxiety, but I want to be good at the Dom side. I want to be good at everything, and I do see how annoying that sounds as I write it. But I'm competitive. I know that if a Dom came up with something creative, I would think 'oh, cool!' and then I'd wrack my brain to think of something even more awesome.

Thoughts? Does D/s ever work if the sub has better ideas than the Dom, and wants credit?

I'm trying to work my way through this one and tease out the threads. I'm with Stella on the question of whether you're talking about topping/bottoming or living a D/s lifestyle.

From what you're saying, it sounds like you enjoy the bottoming role, but just want to have more input into creating the scene. Just because you take the bottom role doesn't mean you can't still be directing things in some way either beforehand or during. This is rather different than submission in a D/s sense (or at least from my understanding of it).

Speaking from a D/s lifestyle point of view, the submissive role in the context of also being a bottom is never just about following directions, and what they contributing to a scene is some other thing altogether. You endure for your partner, you absorb for your partner, you are what gives way for the benefit of both. Of course a submissive partner communicates and has their needs and desires heard, but it's the absence of control of the vision that is part of the pleasure.

So to be a creative bottom, why not? You get the best of both worlds - creating the vision and getting to be on the receiving end of it. Just don't confuse it with being a submissive in a D/s sense, and you have all the freedom you like.

 

[GobletHolly182]

Sorry for my sloppy terminology, and thanks to those of you like Stella and Brunne for helping sort it out. I thought top and bottom were just sexual positions, while Dom and sub referred to power roles ... so the Dom could actually bottom, force the sub to do the penetration. True/false?

I didn't think I was talking about a D/s lifestyle, but maybe I am. I am struggling with the tension between giving up all control, which I really do crave, and thinking 'oh great, the bed and the crop AGAIN, how boring, I could really do this better'.

I like the idea of enduring, absorbing, giving way for the both of us ... but I'd also like to think for the both of us, sometimes. It sounds like I am not the only one who enjoys the creative side as well as the accepting side, while still being submissive. LettersFromTatyana, 'mental rolodex of porn' made me LOL.

I think Curious_in_Cali may have hit the nail on the head. I need a Dom who is smarter than me.

 

[Redkate]

I admit, a Dom smarter than me is a huge turn on. It plays a part, for me anyway, in my need to submit to him.

 

[desertslave]

I think creativity is a random and very valuable trait, and don't think it has anything to do with being dominant or submissive, at least not directly.

Master had honored me with liking my ideas many times (I seem to be my own worst enemy some days LOL). He's had at least as many interesting and evil thoughts of his own.

I dislike this kind of comparison, to be honest. Part of me wants to say that D/s (etc) folk simply are creative because it's part of the package of straying from normal; however, that then implies that 'normal' folks lack creativity, and I think that's absolutely untrue. Some cats are gray but not all pervs are oblong. <shrug>

 

[Stella_Omega]

Dom and sub referred to power roles ... so the Dom could actually bottom, force the sub to do the penetration. True/false?

Totally.


Something else to think about--

You might NOT be "submissive" at all. I'm not saying every woman is wrong to ID that way, but lots of us just don't think much beyond "I want wonderful things to happen to me," and they've heard that means sub.

However, it ain't always so. Sometimes-- the way to get those things to happen TO you, is to train someone else in your preferences. Many people who call themselves "Dominants" are actually getting their pleasure from the pleasure they give their partner, which puts them in more of a service role

Which may be why you get those ' 'oh great, the bed and the crop AGAIN, how boring, I could really do this better' moments-- because he has an inkling that's what YOU want. He doesn't know what else you want. He just might be doing this for you.

And here's the thing-- if this works out for you and you flip the dynamic, and establish that it's the bottom's appetite that is mostly running the show-- paradoxically the no-longer-sub can relax and give up control. Like dropping the reins because you know the horse knows where to go. Once you've trained the horse...

I know this doesn't work for very woman, but it's worth thinking about. Just in case.

 

[CutieMouse]

But on the flip side, one thing that puts me off about submission is a weird sort of jealousy over the Dom getting to think up the rules and all the moves, the blocking, the script (rules meaning for a scene; I get that the overall parameters are determined mutually). It makes me feel like the sub's role is easier, less valuable. Like the sub is contributing less, cause they're just following directions.

Thoughts? Does D/s ever work if the sub has better ideas than the Dom, and wants credit?

Ummm... I had no idea the D-type was the only one allowed to come up with input/ideas/etc.

I rarely end up with lovers who self-identify as Dominant in the BDSM sense. They tend to want a partner (and an equal), who just so happens to be perfectly content to say "of course, Darling" 99.9% of the time , but is intelligent enough to speak up when something either isn't going to work, or there's a better way of doing things. If we hit a situation (sexual, or not) where I am more knowledgeable, experienced, or creative than my partner... I'm obligated to say something. (Thankfully, we're intimately compatible enough that even though the basics rarely change, I've never had a moment of "oh damn, that again..."It's more like "Oh... damn... there's a new way of looking at that! Who knew?" LOL)

We each have skills and talents the other doesn't; it's a lover's job to utilize those talents [without letting his ego get in the way]. Which means when a discussion of breathplay came up, I emailed several years worth of research I had on the subject so we could make an educated decision, together. When we did some grocery shopping last month, I rearranged the shopping basket and took over how the groceries were placed on the checkout counter/bagged. (He's a divorcee/bachelor; I was a homemaker for 12 years.) He's currently trying to increase networking for his business; I researched multiple avenues, mentioned it in passing, and got approval to link him my ideas.

It's a partnership; we strengthen each other in ways that may have a foundation in D/s, but at the end of the day no one is keeping score about who was the most dominant and who was the most submissive. From the outside there are a hell of a lot of things he does for me that *look* submissive, and things I do for him that *look* dominant, but neither of us ever forget who [what] we are to one another.

 

[Netzach]

The best times I've had playing have always started with one of their ideas.

AND then this happens. SO then that happens. BUT then this happens...

 

[DVS]

Creativity doesn't make someone smarter, just creative. Some people think in a creative way and some are more logical in their thinking. It's kind of like when some people are good at math and some aren't. It doesn't mean one is smarter than the other. Some minds just don't work the same way as others.

And being creative isn't necessarily the missing link to a BDSM relationship that isn't working. It mostly depends on the match between the partners. If they like the same things, creativity might not even be necessary.

Sure, it's nice to have a creative partner if you like experimenting or if you don't know what you like. It can be like a smorgasbord of BDSM porn. A session of creative ideas that keep you on the edge of using your safe word can be pretty exciting. But it might not be for everybody.

I'm a very creative person, but my creativity always leans towards the things I enjoy. Unless my partner likes the same things or prefers to let me run the show, what good is my creativity? It could actually be boring to someone else.

 

[GobletHolly182]

Totally.


Something else to think about--

You might NOT be "submissive" at all. I'm not saying every woman is wrong to ID that way, but lots of us just don't think much beyond "I want wonderful things to happen to me," and they've heard that means sub.

However, it ain't always so. Sometimes-- the way to get those things to happen TO you, is to train someone else in your preferences. Many people who call themselves "Dominants" are actually getting their pleasure from the pleasure they give their partner, which puts them in more of a service role

Which may be why you get those ' 'oh great, the bed and the crop AGAIN, how boring, I could really do this better' moments-- because he has an inkling that's what YOU want. He doesn't know what else you want. He just might be doing this for you.

And here's the thing-- if this works out for you and you flip the dynamic, and establish that it's the bottom's appetite that is mostly running the show-- paradoxically the no-longer-sub can relax and give up control. Like dropping the reins because you know the horse knows where to go. Once you've trained the horse...

I know this doesn't work for very woman, but it's worth thinking about. Just in case.

This kinda blew my mind. Will have to think more on it. Thanks!

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

Creativity is hot, whatever the sexual proclivities of the creator (Who's the hottest individual in human history? Willy Wonka. I rest my case.)

But what's even more cool is the creative synergy produced in a relationship between a PYL and pyl. It can spiral and ping pong and mutate and... zoik! There's this wild thing that couldn't have existed without the interplay.

Ever been in a group project where you were bringing all the ideas and energy? Good Lord - it's exhausting! I definitely don't have all the good ideas just because control happens to make me hard.

 

[Salenku]

Creativity is hot, whatever the sexual proclivities of the creator (Who's the hottest individual in human history? Willy Wonka. I rest my case.)

But what's even more cool is the creative synergy produced in a relationship between a PYL and pyl. It can spiral and ping pong and mutate and... zoik! There's this wild thing that couldn't have existed without the interplay.

Ever been in a group project where you were bringing all the ideas and energy? Good Lord - it's exhausting! I definitely don't have all the good ideas just because control happens to make me hard.

A lovely way to put it! I don't think, in any partnership, play or otherwise, both of you can achieve all of your desires unless you both contribute, to the, ummm, menu (for want if a better word).

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

A lovely way to put it! I don't think, in any partnership, play or otherwise, both of you can achieve all of your desires unless you both contribute, to the, ummm, menu (for want if a better word).

Recipes are much better when there's improvisation.

 

[Salenku]

Recipes are much better when there's improvisation.

Point taken. I like surprises...

 

[xssve]

This question has been nattering in the recesses of my mind for years, I think, but I just managed to articulate it.

I have a wide submissive streak and a smaller sadistic one, and I actively despise my own need for control. Upshot is that I don't consistently identify with either submission or domination, even though I'm definitely interested in D/s.

One attraction of submission to me is relinquishing the responsibility for everything, giving everything over to someone else and being able to focus on just doing whatever they say/want well, to the best of my abilities. But on the flip side, one thing that puts me off about submission is a weird sort of jealousy over the Dom getting to think up the rules and all the moves, the blocking, the script (rules meaning for a scene; I get that the overall parameters are determined mutually). It makes me feel like the sub's role is easier, less valuable. Like the sub is contributing less, cause they're just following directions.

It's like I don't want the performance anxiety, but I want to be good at the Dom side. I want to be good at everything, and I do see how annoying that sounds as I write it. But I'm competitive. I know that if a Dom came up with something creative, I would think 'oh, cool!' and then I'd wrack my brain to think of something even more awesome.

Thoughts? Does D/s ever work if the sub has better ideas than the Dom, and wants credit?

Yes, we have to be, and you crazy bitches keep the dilemmas coming, bless your twisted hearts.

If not, lay it on me, there are are places I'm not even wiling to go that I'm willing to go if you ask me the right way.

Like I said, no.

 

[mysteriousme82]

When I'm a dom... I think it's essential that I know what she thinks about when she's aroused. Every bit of information I can pull from her makes it that much hotter when I use that on her later. For instance, I had a woman say she secretly had a huge fetish for gay porn. She constantly watched it. So later, when I was in charge, I took her to the basement/tv room at my place and all the lights were out. I told her to wait until the images on the tv screen came on and she had to react like she does at home. She hit Play on the remote and on the tv screen was a video with four very hot guys going at it all over each other. She wasted no time and felt herself up on the couch. I told her to name the men and she used names of men she knew. Two were older, two were younger. So as she got off on the video... I worked a fantasy in her ear as I told her what to do to herself. Great time!!

mysteriousme82 on yahoo if you'd like to talk more.

 

[kiwi_submissive]

Some of the best times i have had is when playing at been a Guinea Pet.

Rather than a full on scene, it's sometimes fun to start with one idea and then give feedback and work on it and perfect it instead of been totally serious about things and then it can be used in a serious scene once you know it works.