Apprenticeship

[Stella_Omega]

You know what apprentices do most of all, right?
Here's your broom, start sweeping. After that you can scrub the front stoop, and wash the dishes.

Then, you can take these reams of paper and erase the writing on them, so the journeymen can use them over again...

 

[sethp]

I know..I know.. I think I'll have to break down and take a class.

 

[3113]

I know..I know.. I think I'll have to break down and take a class.

Alternately, you can set up a writer's group. You find two or three other newbie writers, preferably within range of you so you can meet in person. Every month (or twice a month depending on how ambitious you are), you meet at someone's house and either read a chapter to each other, or you pass out that chapter/story ahead of time and then talk about what everyone wrote when you meet. You discuss each other's writing critically--what works or doesn't work and why.

This teaches you to write in two ways--first, by making you write, and second, by being critical about what you read and so critical of your own writing.

 

[sr71plt]

Alternately, you can set up a writer's group. You find two or three other newbie writers, preferably within range of you so you can meet in person. Every month (or twice a month depending on how ambitious you are), you meet at someone's house and either read a chapter to each other, or you pass out that chapter/story ahead of time and then talk about what everyone wrote when you meet. You discuss each other's writing critically--what works or doesn't work and why.

This teaches you to write in two ways--first, by making you write, and second, by being critical about what you read and so critical of your own writing.

Oh, I couldn't recommend that. If there isn't someone in the writing group who already has writing skills and experience, this would just be the blind leading the blind--almost assuredly down the wrong paths.

This really is an activity where you need to start at go--cutting corners is just going to leave you spinning wheels. Study grammar, read some writing aides, sign up for a basic-level creative writing course taught by someone with credentials--and develop from there.

 

[3113]

Oh, I couldn't recommend that. If there isn't someone in the writing group who already has writing skills and experience, this would just be the blind leading the blind--almost assuredly down the wrong paths.

Have you been in such a writer's group? I have. And it worked out very well. Yes, it can be the blind leading the blind and sometimes it doesn't work out--that's why the person setting it up has to get with others who they know are serious and willing to be critical.

If they do that, as I did, then it can really be a fantastic stepping stone.

This really is an activity where you need to start at go--cutting corners is just going to leave you spinning wheels. Study grammar, read some writing aides, sign up for a basic-level creative writing course taught be someone with credentials--and develop from there.

And, again, I disagree, in part, from personal experience. I've gotten into classes where the teacher was "someone with credentials" and I didn't learn shit. Didn't grow, didn't write nearly enough. The writer's group got me through my first novel. 400 pages. And started on my second. That never, ever, ever, happened with a single one of the "credentialed" teachers. The reason being that those classes always involve other people and the teacher must address all of them, not just you. And the teacher, having to read all those papers, has very, very limited time to correct anything in those papers, from grammar to characterization.

Now I said I disagreed in part. If one can get into something like Clarion, which is six intense weeks of nothing but writing, with six credentialed teachers coming in week after week to focus on a limited number of people...that's different. But most classes aren't like that. They meet, at best, once a week, have too many students and a teacher who hasn't the time to really focus on anything you write.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but if you're trying to insist to go for the one over the other...in my experience, both or the writer's group. Because in the writer's group, you'll get three people at least focusing on your writing, telling you what they, as readers, don't or do like, and pushing you to write more because they want to read more.

 

[sr71plt]

Have you been in such a writer's group? I have. And it worked out very well. Yes, it can be the blind leading the blind and sometimes it doesn't work out--that's why the person setting it up has to get with others who they know are serious and willing to be critical.

If they do that, as I did, then it can really be a fantastic stepping stone.


And, again, I disagree, in part, from personal experience. I've gotten into classes where the teacher was "someone with credentials" and I didn't learn shit. Didn't grow, didn't write nearly enough. The writer's group got me through my first novel. 400 pages. And started on my second. That never, ever, ever, happened with a single one of the "credentialed" teachers. The reason being that those classes always involve other people and the teacher must address all of them, not just you. And the teacher, having to read all those papers, has very, very limited time to correct anything in those papers, from grammar to characterization.

Now I said I disagreed in part. If one can get into something like Clarion, which is six intense weeks of nothing but writing, with six credentialed teachers coming in week after week to focus on a limited number of people...that's different. But most classes aren't like that. They meet, at best, once a week, have too many students and a teacher who hasn't the time to really focus on anything you write.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but if you're trying to insist to go for the one over the other...in my experience, both or the writer's group. Because in the writer's group, you'll get three people at least focusing on your writing, telling you what they, as readers, don't or do like, and pushing you to write more because they want to read more.

Guess we'll just have to disagree and live with whatever choice we made. Yes, I've been in writing groups. It continues to be my observation that if there isn't someone in the group more prepared to write well than you are (and who knows why their writing is more developed than yours), you aren't going to develop in a constructive direction. In this case, you've advised someone who admits to know close to squat about any of it to form his own group of like folks. I think that's irresponsible myself, but I don't mind. I don't need the competition. I've given him other options, and it's his choice.

P.S. This old saw about knowing people who have credentials who weren't a bit of help is really overdone. You can find that with anything. The law of probability--if pure logic isn't enough--will tell you that it's far more likely to get help from someone who was trained in the medium, whatever it is, than from just some Joe Blow from off the street. When in doubt, common sense can be useful.

 

[3113]

P.S. This old saw about knowing people who have credentials who weren't a bit of help is really overdone. You can find that with anything. The law of probability--if pure logic isn't enough--will tell you that it's far more likely to get help from someone who was trained in the medium, whatever it is, than from just some Joe Blow from off the street. When in doubt, common sense can be useful.

To the contrary, the Law of probability says just the opposite, I'm afraid, as there are a lot of people out there wanting to take writing classes and a lot willing to give writing classes, most often as one day seminars in a large lecture hall. If you have a huge lottery with a lot of people entering, the law of probability is low that you will win. If you have a small lottery with few people entering, the law of probability is high that you will win. Hence, my recommendation that if he's going for the credentialed person, he go for something like the workshop where he gets a higher probability of "winning" because the group is small and the writing time is longer and more intense.

And don't you give me that "old saw" shit either! My disagreement with credentialed classes was qualified and I spelled it out quite carefully and clearly. I know people who've gone though such intense workshops with credentialed folk and come out great writers, so I'd never dismiss it out of hand...as you did the writing group.

The credentialed person may want to give you help, but if the class undermines that in size or brevity, then their help isn't going to do you much good in the long run, no matter how brilliant and wonderful they are. I'm all for credentialed help...if you're going to get the time and attention you need to be helped.

 

[sr71plt]

I would presume sethp has seen the options now and will do what he thinks best.

I'm sure we both think we've given him good advice.

 

[sethp]

so in essence..

1. writing books from the library and lot's of reading.
2. take a writing classs (creative)
3. writing goup either setting up or joining.
4. writing workshops.

all 4 of these can be good options and bad depending on the individuals/teachers/price involved.

 

[oggbashan]

1. writing books from the library and lot's of reading.
2. take a writing classs (creative)
3. writing goup either setting up or joining.
4. writing workshops.

all 4 of these can be good options and bad depending on the individuals/teachers/price involved.

You could also read the extensive collection of essays in the How To section of Literotica's stories.

You do need to pay attention to your spelling, punctuation and typing if you are to convince others that you have a serious desire to write. Words and their placement are a writer's tools. At present your posts can grate like seeing someone use a hammer on a screw i.e.:

and lot's of reading - The apostrophe is unnecessary. "lots" is the plural of "lot". "lot's" reads as "lot is".

writing classs Too many "s"s in class.

writing goup The "r" is missing from group.

Those errors may have happened because you are typing too fast. Perhaps you do not read what you have written before you submit the post? While errors are acceptable in the fast moving fun threads they give the wrong impression when you want help as a writer.

Og (who is also prone to errors but uses the edit function when he notices them)