Anyone know anything about granite?

[bailadora]

I've been in my new home about 3 weeks now and I'm having issues with the granite counter tops in the kitchen: namely that they've darkened up on either side of the stove from cooking oils. The builder tried to balk a bit when I called it in, but I pushed hard and they sent someone out to clean and reseal at their expense ( the cleaner is currently sitting for 12 hours and then they'll come back).

But here's what I don't understand: I had granite in my previous home and never had an issue with it. Granted, it was slightly darker than the stone I currently have, but not so dark that I wouldn't have noticed stains. When I mentioned this to the contractor, he dismissed my statement with "well, it was probably a different product." He also said since my stone is a light colored granite, I need to reseal it every 6 months. WTH? Isn't all granite the same? I was in my previous home for 8 years and resealed it once. And let me tell you, I'm hard on my kitchen. What's the point of having stone counter tops if you have to treat them with kid gloves?

I've tried to do some research on the net, but there's conflicting accounts. Some say water does and can seep through the sealer, but it's ok if it eventually evaporates (which is what happens with my current stone). Others say the water (and other liquids) should bead up if it's properly sealed. Some accounts say that the stone should be resealed at least every year. Others say that depending on the sealer, you can go 2-3 years between coats.

Honestly, I don't know what to believe. If anyone out there works with granite for a living, I'd be grateful for any information you'd care to share.

Thanks.

 

[SpecialKay62]

Granite is a rock. Once it's polished, does it need sealer? Do you, by chance, have a composite of granite and something else? Just wondering. I have granite countertops and the only thing I worry about is acid (vinegar, lime juice, coffee) because it can pit the rock over time. Also, extreme heat may crack it. I'd be curious to know what you find out about yours.

 

[minn]

Have had granite for many years and have never had to seal it and have never had anything stain it. I would ask somone locally who sells granite (someone independent of where this "granite" came from) to take a look and provide an opinion. Good luck!

 

[Nasty_Deeds]

Some granite, (or other stone), counter tops are real stone slabs and other counter tops that appear to be stone are actually a composite material containing a stone aggregate. Both are good and both are durable, but first you need to determine which you have. They are cleaned and sealed differently. If you take out a drawer and look underneath, you may be able to find the manufacturers name. Once you know what you have, particularly if you have the manufacturer's name, you can run a Google search and find care instructions unique to your counter tops. I'm not sure, but I think composite is less likely to stain.

 

[bailadora]

Not sure if it's a composite or not, but I'll do some scouting. A couple of weeks back, I talked to the people over at Lowe's and Home Depot about my problem ('cause I thought it might just be an issue with light colored stone) and they seemed to think it was an improper seal. No one ever mentioned composite stone vs slab.

If anyone else has any further insights, I'd appreciate the info. Meanwhile, I work on the leads suggested thus far. Thanks, guys.

 

[mtwain4u]

from what you describe....speculation of course....it sounds like the granite was never sealed in the first place.

Most granite contractors will tell you to reseal every 6-12 months. It's not necessary to do it that often but it certainly doesn't hurt. It you seal your granite every year or two you should not get those surface stains. Water won't hurt it, but corresive materials can (especially without a good seal).

Good luck.

 

[zipitup]

granite is porous and its a natural material that cannot be controlled like a solid surface can be.

That said, some rocks have larger pores than others and will absorb more.

Get it cleaned and sealed...and you may have to seal it more often based upon the type of rock.

R

 

[Nasty_Deeds]

It sounds like you have a granite slab rather than a composite top. Composite is made with resin and some kind of stone aggregate, whereas real granite is just a piece of granite cut into a slab and polished. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Composite is less porous and less likely to stain, but it is also softer and easier to scratch. On the other hand, real granite is harder and more scratch resistant; however, it is porous and easier to stain.

If it is real stone, the advice you are getting about cleaning the top once a year and resealing is sound. How often you need to reseal doesn't depend so much on the granite its self, as it does on the product you are using to clean and reseal.

I would suggest reading what you can find about resealing granite, (or stone), counter tops and then select a product that will work for you. Real stone is more durable I think, but it seems to be higher maintenance too.

Just a thought to keep in mind, the product the builder is using to reseal the top now may not be the best product on the market. After a house is sold, builders are usually reluctant to spend a lot of money on the house after they have been paid. The point being, if you notice the top turning dark again in the near future, you might want to buy a better sealer and do the job yourself.

 

[klippert]

If your granite was installed before you purchased or did you go with the builder/contractor??, chances are the builder bought from an inferior slab, and raked you on the price. Do not stop the pressure on your builder....EVER. They hope to put you off or make it an issue too help you. They are your best friend until you have a CofO (certificate of Occupancy)... I hope you negotiated at least a 18 month warranty on your home. Just because it's granite doesn't mean it's NOT flawless...

I call this builders specials. If this home was a spec home, The builder dolled it up. I hope you had a residential home inspection. That's right, even new builds should have an inspection. I don't like dressing down builders, because I am one. Since Freddy and Fannie fell apart, and banks aren't handing out N.I.J.A loans. Builder have been cutting even more corners.

If, in-fact your counters were from an flawed slab.... very porous, you will have too work very hard at the care of your tops.

 

[bailadora]

If your granite was installed before you purchased or did you go with the builder/contractor??, chances are the builder bought from an inferior slab, and raked you on the price. Do not stop the pressure on your builder....EVER. They hope to put you off or make it an issue too help you. They are your best friend until you have a CofO (certificate of Occupancy)... I hope you negotiated at least a 18 month warranty on your home. Just because it's granite doesn't mean it's NOT flawless...

I call this builders specials. If this home was a spec home, The builder dolled it up. I hope you had a residential home inspection. That's right, even new builds should have an inspection. I don't like dressing down builders, because I am one. Since Freddy and Fannie fell apart, and banks aren't handing out N.I.J.A loans. Builder have been cutting even more corners.

If, in-fact your counters were from an flawed slab.... very porous, you will have too work very hard at the care of your tops.

It was a spec house, so the granite was already installed. As to the home inspection - that remains a sore spot of contention between my husband and I. I kept telling him that we needed one and he kept saying he didn't think we needed it. His reasoning behind that was due to the fact that we got one on our last house (it was also a new construction) and not much was found. It was the topic of heated "discussion" on several occasions, but in the end there wasn't much I could do about it since I was in another state. But I told him that if something later comes back to bite us in the ass, I am going to remind him that it was HIS decision to forgo an inspection and that he better NOT bitch about whatever the problem may be.

So to update on the counter: the cleaner didn't work. The granite is still noticeably darker to either side of the stove and there is now a 4 in hairline fracture on one side where the cleaner was. The contractor said he'd notify his boss and the builder that the issue is still not resolved to my satisfaction. I have a feeling I'm going to have a huge fight on my hands because the only way I can see for the builder to resolve this is to replace the stone. And they're going to shit bricks because that's going to be expensive.

The one thing I do feel I have in my favor is that the builder generally has a very good reputation in this state for building quality homes and for fixing problems. I talked to several granite installers yesterday about this problem and when they found out who the builder is they all pretty much told me that the company would make it right. So....we'll see. One thing is for certain - I'm not going to roll over on this.

I have a feeling I'm going to know A LOT about granite before this is all said and done.

 

[GrimsPet]

What I know about granite or any other stone for that matter is that there are different grades of granite as well. Higher grade granite is less porous than lower grade granite. Lower grade granites need to be sealed a lot more often than higher grades. Don't use the cheapest sealant you can find either. Use a good quality sealant as it will last longer between resealing sessions.

Hope that helps.

 

[Nasty_Deeds]

House inspections are not very comprehensive and probably would not have included checking the quality of the granite on the counter tops. Inspections usually look for potential structural problems and code violations and little else. There was likely an inspection done anyway. I don’t know what the norm is in your area, but most lenders have an inspection done to protect themselves before they lend money on a house. If there was an inspection done, your title company may have a copy.

 

[bailadora]

House inspections are not very comprehensive and probably would not have included checking the quality of the granite on the counter tops. Inspections usually look for potential structural problems and code violations and little else. There was likely an inspection done anyway. I don’t know what the norm is in your area, but most lenders have an inspection done to protect themselves before they lend money on a house. If there was an inspection done, your title company may have a copy.

I thought that was what an appraisal was for...to see if the value of the house at least matched the negotiated price. I'll ask the title company to see if they did an inspection, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, I've watched enough of Mike Holmes on "Holmes Inspection" to know that some inspections aren't worth the paper they're printed on, but I guess I feel like having one done would have at least attempted to cover our asses instead of taking everything on faith.

 

[Nasty_Deeds]

There are a number of inspections, surveys and appraisals done before a house is sold. In the past history of our country, land grants, inaccurate surveys and poor record keeping have created a situation is some areas, where large tracts of land are bought for subdivisions, the builder may not have a clear title to all of the land. To protect the buyer, (and the lender), a title company does a title search of the land, and if it is clear, issues a warranty of deed, guarantying the buyer owns the land.

Lenders do an appraisal to make sure the value of the house is what they were told by the seller; however, they also have a physical inspection done of the house and property to insure they are not loaning money on a house that may have to be torn down. They want to make sure the house is livable. Oddly enough, some houses have the plumbing and wiring stripped by thieves for scrap metal. In some cities you can’t live in a house without water or electricity, and in extreme cases a city can condemn a house like this and have it torn down.

I am sure this isn’t your case, but some unscrupulous builders will build a house over a public easement and depending on who holds rights to the easement, a buyer could have to move or tear down their house. Often easements are for underground utilities or gas lines. Also some builders have knowingly built houses over known faults, causing the house to crack and become unlivable in the near future. The lender also wants to know the house wasn’t built with inferior material, or so termite infested that the house may be in danger of falling down.

There is also building inspections when the house is being built to insure the house is up current building codes. The lender also wants to know that the proper building permits were issued. The loan official that signs your mortgage will likely never see your house, (and may not even live in your city), and depends heavily on these inspections and reports to insure the loan is secure. By the time you move into your new home, it has been inspected, re-inspected and inspected again.

Unfortunately, all of these inspectors and investigators work for someone other than the buyer, and their loyalty is of course to their paycheck. The downside is, when you as a buyer hire a professional to inspect your new home, it will almost always be one of these people, and they will always protect their future work with lenders and title companies. They will tell the buyer if there is a termite infestation, or if the roof is about to fall in, or if there is a water problem that may flood your basement, but when it comes to the quality of the carpet, or the paint on the walls, or even the quality of your counter tops, they seem to just go blind. The point is, if you had hired someone to inspect your home, they probably would not have told you that you may have a problem with your counter tops.

Unfortunately, the key phrase when selling houses is “Caveat Emptor”, let the buyer beware. If you bought from a reputable builder, he will most likely replace the counter tops. He won’t like it, but he will do it. If you bought from someone not so reputable, if it breaks, you probably own both halves.

 

[Man_in_Chester]

Worktops to bang your head off

I've been in my new home about 3 weeks now and I'm having issues with the granite counter tops in the kitchen: namely that they've darkened up on either side of the stove from cooking oils. The builder tried to balk a bit when I called it in, but I pushed hard and they sent someone out to clean and reseal at their expense ( the cleaner is currently sitting for 12 hours and then they'll come back).

But here's what I don't understand: I had granite in my previous home and never had an issue with it. Granted, it was slightly darker than the stone I currently have, but not so dark that I wouldn't have noticed stains. When I mentioned this to the contractor, he dismissed my statement with "well, it was probably a different product." He also said since my stone is a light colored granite, I need to reseal it every 6 months. WTH? Isn't all granite the same? I was in my previous home for 8 years and resealed it once. And let me tell you, I'm hard on my kitchen. What's the point of having stone counter tops if you have to treat them with kid gloves?

I've tried to do some research on the net, but there's conflicting accounts. Some say water does and can seep through the sealer, but it's ok if it eventually evaporates (which is what happens with my current stone). Others say the water (and other liquids) should bead up if it's properly sealed. Some accounts say that the stone should be resealed at least every year. Others say that depending on the sealer, you can go 2-3 years between coats.

Honestly, I don't know what to believe. If anyone out there works with granite for a living, I'd be grateful for any information you'd care to share.

Thanks.

A lady I visited had Granite worktops and did not like her investment. Even a drop of water was enough to spoil the finish, from her point of view. She too tried sealants, repeatedly. Her strong advice was not to get them.
Possibly she had natural cut stone and not a composite ground to a polish and impregnated with 'waxes' throughout it's thickness so that they would constantly leak out and repel water. Your trouble seems to be heat, which might allow faster oxidation of organic material, perhaps the sealant.
My advice is to replace it with formica. It is easier to keep clean than most substances, can be scrubbed with abrasives, withstands strong acids and can be replaced without great expense. It is better in my experience than Stainless Steel. That sounds good but is not so practical.

 

[Nasty_Deeds]

Your trouble seems to be heat, which might allow faster oxidation of organic material, perhaps the sealant.

Good point about heat. When you heat stone, it expands and become even more absorbent.

I have a feeling I'm going to know A LOT about granite before this is all said and done.

The thing about composite counter tops in the kitchen is that it has to be of high quality. Whatever is used to bind the stone aggregate together has to be very resistant to heat. Heat will quickly damage a poor quality composite.

There are cheap composites and good composites. A cheap composite will usually looks like imitation, whereas a high quality composite can be hard to tell from the real thing. Usually the composite tops and fixtures you find in places like Home Depot and Lowes are not the highest quality.

 

[aniowachick]

I have Marble ... All I know is someone left an orange peel on it.. finish was ruined. You cant see it but can feel it

 

[klippert]

that is correct....home inspection won't be able too see if the granite is flawed...unless that inspector has 'knowledge' of said material flaws. I was a little off topic... I was think out loud.

the heat from a cook-top should, as Thermodynamics tells us; rises. I don't know what kind of stove or cook-top you have... But, if it is kicking out lateral heat like that..... it aint your counters.....

 

[DrHappy]

Some granites are simply more porous than others. It’s not an issue of grade and expense. Higher grade granite tends to be more expensive because it has a rarer spectrum of colors and visual appearance. Lower grades aren’t necessarily more porous. We have very non-porous granite in our kitchen, and very porous granite in our bathroom. We didn't choose it this way; we just got lucky.

The bathroom granite will darken from droplets of water. The bathroom granite really soaks up sealant too. I’ve reapplied sealant and it gets better each time. I’ve read that lighter granites tend to be more porous.

Our builder warned us about staining from grease, and that we should quickly wipe up any grease. He also mentioned that that grease stains would eventually dissipate.

 

[bambikiller]

I've built a number of "spec homes" and have installed many kitchens and bathrooms.
Granite, marble. slate. lime stone, we put it in all the time.
Your stone.
It's now stained the only way you can get it back is if you get someone who knows a lot about stone to clean it using a pumace.
Look up www.jondon.com
they are a cleaning supplier I deal with.
Different stones have differance rates of absobtion.
As in some a more porus than others.
Also color, lighter stone shows more absorbtion of materials than darker stone.
Also the type of cooking has a lot to do with it, I have a client whose stone has darkened consideably in the 7 years since they bought the house but in there culture they cook with alot of oils.
I just replaced a disposal they ruined with oil.
That granite needs to be sealed a lot more than a meat eater like me that realy doesn't use a lot of oil.
What ever blame the contractor or don't I'm sure as in my house warrenty you're fucked.
The difference is reguardless of the warrenty I'll fix the problem but that's just me.
So what are you going to do?
Hire a guy or learn how to suck out the stains your self.
Than seal the stone with a high quality silicone based sealer.
Hint, anything you buy at the Home Depot or Lowes is shit.

Go to a stone supplier and buy a good sealer and yes $80 for a bottle is about the right price.

 

[bailadora]

I've built a number of "spec homes" and have installed many kitchens and bathrooms.
Granite, marble. slate. lime stone, we put it in all the time.
Your stone.
It's now stained the only way you can get it back is if you get someone who knows a lot about stone to clean it using a pumace.
Look up www.jondon.com
they are a cleaning supplier I deal with.
Different stones have differance rates of absobtion.
As in some a more porus than others.
Also color, lighter stone shows more absorbtion of materials than darker stone.
Also the type of cooking has a lot to do with it, I have a client whose stone has darkened consideably in the 7 years since they bought the house but in there culture they cook with alot of oils.
I just replaced a disposal they ruined with oil.
That granite needs to be sealed a lot more than a meat eater like me that realy doesn't use a lot of oil.
What ever blame the contractor or don't I'm sure as in my house warrenty you're fucked.
The difference is reguardless of the warrenty I'll fix the problem but that's just me.
So what are you going to do?
Hire a guy or learn how to suck out the stains your self.
Than seal the stone with a high quality silicone based sealer.
Hint, anything you buy at the Home Depot or Lowes is shit.

Go to a stone supplier and buy a good sealer and yes $80 for a bottle is about the right price.

When I call the builder (since no one has called me back on this), I'll ask about cleaning the stone with a pumice. I guess I assumed the guys who came out to clean the countertop knew what they were doing as their company installs stone. But guess I should have headed the old adage about assume.....

The product used on my stone (at least by the contractor who came out) was Miracle 511. A cursory glance on the net seems to suggest a good reputation for it, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts on it. It's interesting you should mention the bit about Home Depot or Lowes as I was informed this product was available there.

If I can just get the damn stain out, I'll be happy to pay $80.00 a bottle for a quality sealer. Sure as hell beats the price of replacement!

 

[bambikiller]

It's about $80 for the sealer.
Your damage has been done already.
I don't know where you are from but I would call local granite suppliers (not installers) in your area and ask them for a reference for someone who could get your stain out.
Also there are a lot of mixes out there, not all are good for what kind of stain you may have.
Is it a coffee stain, oil stain, juice stain there are different formulas to get out different stains.
Most likely your granite was never sealed in the first place.
A lot of houses are built by business men who know how to make money but don't know shit about construction then there are builders who know a lot about construction but aren't very good at fucking the customer over for their last buck.
Unfortunitly I'm in the latter catigory.

If you know the type of stain you could go one line and posssibly find a pumace that will work for your stain.
Then seal it.

 

[bailadora]

They are stains from canola cooking oil.

Any idea of the search terms I should use? I just tried "pumace for oil stained granite" and got all kinds of crazy returns.

 

[bambikiller]

My guess is somthing with baking soda but I realy don't know.
I seal my stone before hand and I advise my customers to keep it up.
I think your best bet is to call a suppler they probably have an in stock item to take it out.
You could also have it steamed out I beleive.
You should go to a site that has people in the business help you not a site like this that has a bunch of perverts to help you.
Not to insult my fellow pervert, we are a deverse group but you might want to try somewhere else.
Did you look up www.jondon.com ?

 

[SweetErika]

I don't mean to hijack your thread, Bailadora, but it seems to have attracted a bunch of people with a lot of knowledge on materials. Feel free to kick me to the New Thread curb if my questions are too disruptive, though.

We're going to need to replace our kitchen counters in the next couple of years. They're currently the standard vinyl/formica type of stuff that was popular in the 90's and have several stains and pits.

So, does anyone have advice on fairly inexpensive, extremely durable and low-maintenance materials we should look at? Currently, our tops are light colored and mostly exposed to water, some acids (tea, coffee, juices) and the occasional bang.

We'll likely do our sink at the same time as the counters (right now, it's the standard cream-colored, top-mount, double sink - maybe polished porcelain or something?), since it's starting to get scratches and stains I can't get out, so suggestions on that would be cool, too. Anyone know anything about those newer composite sinks? And could we do an under-mount instead of another top-mount, so we could wipe stuff from the counters directly into the sink and not have to deal with cleaning the caulk around the sink?

And we need to replace the vinyl tile floors with something that's durable and easy to clean.

Apart from cost and durability, I'd also like counters, floors and sink that generally look clean, even when they aren't spotless. We keep our kitchen pretty clean, but I don't want every little thing to show or spend a ton of time scrubbing, polishing, dusting, etc., our new stuff.

Thanks in advance for any advice!