Anybody Watch the Osama Home Video?

[Oliver Clozoff]

Just curious what my fellow literoticans think about the video. Has it changed your impressions of Osama at all? Has it changed how you feel about America's response to these attacks?

Also: Paging SimplySouthern to the bandstand. You have a PM. I repeat... you have a PM.

 

[Purple Haze]

I just read the transcript.

He's fucking Looney Tunes.

 

[SimplySouthern]

Well, he's certainly not gonna win the $10,000 on America's Funniest Home Video's with that one.

 

[Renegade]

Haven't seen it yet. They show Osama getting hit in the nuts with a baseball or anything of that nature?

 

[Purple Haze]

Read this, and tell me this guy's got it all together:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Bin-Laden-Tape-Text.html?pagewanted=1

 

[Spinaroonie]

I was one of the more cynnical of the US's proof on OBL, to the point where everybody called me a moron. I haven't seen it But if what I've heard is true,then, I'm gonna bet that he did it- and I'm not a gambler.

See my Evidence? thread for how I felt before.

 

[Renegade]

Thanks for the link. The guy sure is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

 

[TN_Vixen]

I just read the transcript

and am completely disgusted. He is a sick, sick man. I want him to burn in hell - far far away from his precious Allah.

 

[Mellon Collie]

I kind of doubt the validity of the tape (not that I need to see it to think lowly of the man). It just seems to be way too convenient and I for one do not speak Arab, or whatever language he was speaking and on top of that, tapes are not hard to mess with and that's just the teenaged boy down the street, I'm sure the US could work wonders. I for one try to not believe all the propaganda that is shoved down my throat.

I'm not saying he wasn't involved in anyway I just don't think our government would not be above lying about something like a tape to prove they are justified in their actions. I really think they don't need this tape to prove anything, a lot of people died, if you think it's him and want to bomb the hell out of his country, more power to you.

Just keep in mind, you need to take this stuff with a grain of salt, we are talking about the media here.

 

[p_p_man]

I still want more concrete proof than this...

The video was found in a Taleban run house, so we are told...

It was found in a country that banned TV and everything connected to it...

What was it doing there?

Why was it made? As a record for a future bin Laden Museum? Or as a rallying cry to the troops?

Why can't the Saudi bin Laden was talking to, be identified?

Who was the man on the left of bin Laden, shown as the camera panned out?

Why did it take so long for the US Government to release it?

Why, with all the money he's got couldn't bin Laden have bought a camcorder that gave better recordings.

All it proves, if the tape is genuine, is that bin Laden knew of the operation. It goes nowhere near proving he planned it.

We are told that the translation was carried out by "scholars". Why? Couldn't they get an average Afghan off the street to do the job?

And why scholars in the plural. To tanslate from one language to another would normally only take one person. Unless the tape is being doctored.

No. Case not proved yet...

 

[auralee]

I was glad to see I'm not the only cynic. I watched quite a bit of it and it seems just a little too perfect. Maybe I get too much of my news from The Daily Show but it reminded me of their translations of people you know just aren't saying that. If one read lips and spoke Arabic, the image makes it impossible. The Pentagon said they can't vouch for the authenticity since they didn't translate it. The tapes say "translated by U.S. government". Found in a home in Afghanistan seems very convenient. The statements are so outlandish that they do make Mr. Evil sound like a madman.
I could be wrong. It would be nice to trust the government but it wouldn't be the first time; possibly just the biggest lie of my lifetime.

 

[Spinaroonie]

It's troubling to me that, when I doubted the tape before it was released I was an idiot and a moron, now we all doubt it.



Btw, watching it again and again... Osama looks....odd.

The translation... well.. who knows if that's right...

But... it is convincing most of the Muslims here, and a some of them speak arabic. Mostly they're claiming that OBL is Computer Generate

 

[Laurel]

Tape or no tape, he needs to be tried in a court. Evidence can be presented there. That's the way justice works. Any American who advocates "hanging the bastard without a trial" then goes on to call the Taliban "cruel" is missing the point of our country and way of life by about a mile.

 

[Marxist]

Tape or no tape, he needs to be tried in a court. Evidence can be presented there. That's the way justice works. Any American who advocates "hanging the bastard without a trial" then goes on to call the Taliban "cruel" is missing the point of our country and way of life by about a mile.

Laurel, put this on your list of things that will never happen. The government can't afford to put him on trial and make a martyr of him in any form. OBL will die in a cave and his body will be displayed Che Guevara / Dillinger style for the press. Our government knows the score and how to keep tensions low.

 

[Problem Child]

I could hit some of you idiots in the head with a baseball bat, and you would doubt that the grey bloody shit coming out of your skulls was your tiny malfunctioning brains leaking out.

 

[Laurel]

Laurel, put this on your list of things that will never happen. The government can't afford to put him on trial and make a martyr of him in any form. OBL will die in a cave and his body will be displayed Che Guevara / Dillinger style for the press. Our government knows the score and how to keep tensions low.

You're probably right. Still, it's a little freaky to live in a country where people drive around with the US flag on their cars yet have absolutely no understanding of what it means.

PC - metal bat or wooden?

 

[YogiBare]

PC, you're absolutely right.

Americans can be such idiots when it comes to our own survival.

 

[alltherage]

I saw pieces of it today. I would say that the level of doubt i had about him having done it has always been very low. When i try to figure out who could have done it besides this group i can find no logical answer. As for the tape and why he did it. He seems to have a track record on this account. I think for someone who is supposed to be underground he spends a good deal of time giving interviews and posing. I believe in his mind he saw the act as heroic and the tape was made not to be played here but to what he see's as his inshakable followers. The man is messianic by any standard and applying our logic to him seems to be a fools errand.

I agree completely with laurel about the need for a fair trial. I think the tribunal plan is simply not in the spirit of our constitution and is part of a larger lack of respect for the bill of rights that this administration has show. Those forces that seek to limit our freedoms are ever present and sept 11 has given them cover for there efforts to reduce our freedoms. Trying him a court of law with public airing of the evidence against him also reduces the chances of him becoming a martre to his cause. Dying while fighting the infidel, even if that death is from suicide only increases his legend. Think about neo nazi's. If Hitler had been captured and tried for his crimes might history be different. Perhaps those who apologize for his actions, or those who seek to revise history would have less ammunition. Just a thought.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'm going to die. It's got to be the end. I agreed with ppman...

Except for the translation thing. I know the arab linguists we've got in the pentagon. It's not scholars doing it. I doubt we've seen all of it either.


Laurel, we can't try Osama in a court of law. We want the death penalty. See sd214's evidence thread if you wanna see my reasoning. Page 1.

 

[jilly69]

Hes not an American. He doest have rights like Americans.The constitution is for Americans. Right for a fair trial. My brother is in the army. If he commits a crime while in service No matter how small he gets a military trial. If our troops get that then why not a killer. He did kill 4,000 Americans.

 

[alltherage]

believe me it is not him that i am concerned with here. it is us.

 

[Laurel]

Let me clarify...

I'm no fan of terrorists. I hate Osama and everything he stands for. I hate homophobes. I hate racists. I hate cooked mushrooms.

But per the Constitution of the United States of America, should all these things be obliterated from the face of the earth simply because I hate them?

Of course not.

We Americans strut around and talk the big talk about Freedom. We brag about how much better our system of government is than that of the Taliban, or that of China or anywhere in which the people don't have a fair say.

Then we have the nerve to say pornography should be banned - because we find it offensive.

We don't think the KKK should get a fair trial - because they don't deserve it.

We think Osama should be hung by the neck without a fair trial - because we're pissed off, damnit. Who cares if we get the right guy? Any Arab terrorist will do. Who cares if martyring him creates a hundred other Osamas? We want our catharsis. Doesn't matter if it puts Americans in further danger.

Do I think he was involved? I think it is highly unlikely that something of this magnitude was planned and executed without his involvement. I think he definitely knew about it.

But you know what? I believe in American Justice. I don't believe that it applies only to those who I approve of. The KKK has the right to have their say. I have the right to run this site.

In Afghanistan, they do hang people with little or no evidence.

I don't want to live in Afghanistan. Do you? Do you believe that the Afghanistan system of justice is superior to ours?

I don't.

That's all I'm saying.

Hes not an American. He doest have rights like Americans.The constitution is for Americans.

From the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

Note it doesn't say 'all Americans' - it says all men. By law, Osama may not be guaranteed rights on our soil, but the fact remains that EVERYONE is deserving of Freedom and Justice - not just Americans.

For the record, I support a military trial for Osama, but not the secret bullshit that's in the works for the 1,000 people currently in our custody.

That's it. I'm done. Flame away.

 

[jilly69]

The people in custody are all Non Americans. The visas are expired.

 

[p_p_man]

I'm going to die. It's got to be the end. I agreed with ppman...

Good God!!

 

[Laurel]

The people in custody are all Non Americans. The visas are expired.

Suppose you were an American visiting a Middle Eastern country. The US bombs said country. Suppose that country rounded up you and 1,000 other Americans and announced they were setting up secret tribunals and handing out death sentences. Would you think this was right or fair?

I read an article (which I'll have to find) in which is is mentioned that one of the "dangerous people" in custody is a Middle Eastern art student who had an art knife along with other art supplies in his bag when traveling. Should he be put to death as a terrorist?