Any thoughts on vulgarity?

[Ysoi]

Hi all!

Firstly, I'll apologise but this post will be quite vulgar. m(_ _)m

...

...

Okay.

Here are the numbers of stories found if I use the search stories function in literotica for the following commonly-used anatomical words :

cunt = 94K
pussy = 186K
vagina = 39K (14%)

cock = 201K
dick = 91K (presumably not all are "Richard")
penis = 57K (20%)

(Unsurprisingly, the clinical terms are used a lot less frequently than the vulgar terms - and I'm sure there are plenty of others that I haven't thought of / bothered to check.)

Now when I write I will use the vulgar terms if they seem necessary, but at the same time I don't want to use a word that seems either <I>too</I> vulgar or infantile. My desire is to write something that is interesting and hopefully arousing rather than offensive - and thus for that reason I tend to avoid "cunt" in favour of the word "pussy" unless I am trying to emphasise the uncivilised nature of a scene. (To me the former has always seemed ruder, and I have heard some women say that they don't like it.)

Are there any vulgar words that you would avoid, either because they seem too vulgar or too infantile? Do you not care so long as the terms used aren't ridiculous, or do you try to avoid profanity altogether?

Ysoi

 

[TinyBeth]

I think that vulgarity is fine as long as it fits the story. I would be rather thrown out of a sweet romantic story that suddenly used "cunt" but would be rather surprised to see gentler words used in a more dark and serious story.
As with so much else, it's all in how the author wants to present the fictional world of their story.

 

[PennLady]

Are there any vulgar words that you would avoid, either because they seem too vulgar or too infantile? Do you not care so long as the terms used aren't ridiculous, or do you try to avoid profanity altogether?

I'm with TinyBeth -- it depends on the story. I tend not to use the "vulgar" words, as they simply don't fit my stories most times. However, sometimes they do and so I use them.

 

[lovecraft68]

First off, yes it depends on the story. A story that involves BDSM, cucking, femdom non consent/reluctance may involve more vulgar words than say a romance.

If the language is in character of the story you can get away with it.

another words, it has to make sense.

He smiled sweetly at her and whispered, "I love you, you little cunt." May not play off.

anotehr point is again this is subjective. Personally I find cunt offensive. I don;t use it in my stories and if I read it in one it always strikes me the wrong way. But that's me, there are others like me and others who don;t care.

Now speaking of offensive, I may offend you with this, but I'm not really trying to.

You start a lot of polls and seem overly concerned with what people think or what "flies" here. If you;re going to write based on all that and not what you want to write, don't bother.

For a lot of this you're going to learn the way the people you're asking did, by doing it and seeing the reactions.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Vulgar has many definitions, and in practice is what I call HEINZ 57 language.

So I suggest you sculpt your character to your liking and fit him with congruent language.

 

[sr71plt]

The site, read by a whole range of interests--which don't even discount pornography--permits a whole range of story types/content. Write and read what you like--and leave room for others to read and write what they like. The Web site does.

 

[Dual_Triode]

From my perspective as a male author, a male character would never use the word "cunt" unless a fight was about to break out. It is too vulgar.

A female character might use the word as a prejudicial description of another female if she were angry enough. She might also use the word to describe her own genitals, but never somebody else's.

Like other four letter words, use them infrequently. Save them for maximum impact.

 

[TE999]

Offhand, I can't think of any of the so-called taboo or vulgar words I wouldn't use in a story depending on the situation. 'Penis' and 'vagina' make a story sound like a medical tome and are devoid of any sexuality.

For instance, words like pussy, cock, cunt, rod, hole, prick, clit, dick and asshole convey raw sensuality and unbridled lust when describing a sex act in exquisite detail. Conversely, terms like 'fun tunnel' and 'man meat' are drearily sophomoric and distract mightily from a story IMO.

Regarding sex acts themselves, terms such as 'making love' are gentle and fit nicely into a romantic story. When you're getting down with it sex wise, then fucking, eating, sucking, humping, fingering, licking, probing, thrusting, jamming and others are the way to go.

In short, what words you use depend upon the atmosphere you're creating for the reader. Making love or fucking, you decide.

What language a character uses totally depends on them.

 

[sr71plt]

From my perspective as a male author, a male character would never use the word "cunt" unless a fight was about to break out. It is too vulgar.

You don't think any male in the world would use the word "cunt"? I think you've led a very sheltered life--or want to write very limited stories.

Any male type in the world is free game to appear as a character in a story.

 

[lovecraft68]

You don't think any male in the world would use the word "cunt"? I think you've led a very sheltered life--or want to write very limited stories.

Any male type in the world is free game to appear as a character in a story.

I know men who say it, but not one who uses it to describe the female anatomy, most of the time I hear it used, its to describe the female herself.

 

[Dual_Triode]

You don't think any male in the world would use the word "cunt"? I think you've led a very sheltered life--or want to write very limited stories.

Of course, there are men who use the word "cunt". They are not in my circle of friends. For me, the word has the same distasteful connotation as the "N word". I don't use either one.

A sheltered life? Not so much. Limited scope of stories? Perhaps.

Any male type in the world is free game to appear as a character in a story.

Absolutely.

 

[sr71plt]

We are talking about what a character in a story would say, guys. Are your writing horizons so shallow that you can't conceive of a male character type using the word "cunt"--even for the female anatomy--and even as often as they'd use the word "fuck"?

If not, again we get back to limitations as a writer and observer of the breadth of human types.

Pretty ridiculous ground we're on here. Did you not know you were on a porn site?

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

*nevermind*

 

[Ysoi]

First off, yes it depends on the story. A story that involves BDSM, cucking, femdom non consent/reluctance may involve more vulgar words than say a romance.

Can only agree with this - certainly the language does have to fit the story. I think also, though, that there are some words that people might find particularly offensive - such as "cunt". Knowing this reminds me to use "pussy" primarily and to keep "cunt" for those occasions where the character or situation are, for want of a better word, "nastier" than normal. For me, I think it would be nice to know if there are other particularly offensive words that I should also hold in reserve.

Now speaking of offensive, I may offend you with this, but I'm not really trying to.

No offence taken!

You start a lot of polls and seem overly concerned with what people think or what "flies" here. If you;re going to write based on all that and not what you want to write, don't bother.

Hm...

Part of my motivation is, as I mentioned in the opener, that I want to write interesting and arousing stories. (Unfortunately, I think that my stories are more often interesting (to me) than arousing, but hey ho.) ( ; _ ; )

The second part is, however, that I would like other people to feel the same way about them as I do. (Well, hopefully less critical!) If that means that I have to use italics instead of bold, or use certain grammar, or even that I have to avoid certain topics (urination & squirting "spring" to mind) then I can live with that.

Perhaps this is partly because I've spent the last five years on/off writing a (very long and as yet unfinished) multi-part story for no-one but myself with no restraint on subject matter / tense / formatting / grammar / whatever, so I'm fully satisfied on that side of things. What I want to do now is to write something that not only I can be satisfied with, but that someone else will read, enjoy and hopefully remember.

(That's not to say that I'm writing purely for other people. My current story is going to have two versions just so that it <I>can</I> cater for different tastes, but at the same time it's written in a way that I think a lot of people will find off-putting or consider infantile, purely because it seemed like that way seemed like the best method of completing a task that I set myself.)

For a lot of this you're going to learn the way the people you're asking did, by doing it and seeing the reactions.

I think that my problem with that is that the quality of feedback is often very low, so you really have to play the numbers game in order to find that one reader who will give some constructive criticism or even just to get a decent number of votes... If people are dropping out just because of "?!" or <B><I>bold italics</I></B>, then that not only limits the amount that I can learn from them, but also reduces my chances of having someone like what I have actually written. :|

Ysoi

 

[Ysoi]

We are talking about what a character in a story would say, guys. Are your writing horizons so shallow that you can't conceive of a male character type using the word "cunt"--even for the female anatomy--and even as often as they'd use the word "fuck"?

Seeing that reaction surprised me as well.

People have taken the opening question as if I asked what a character will say, but what I was really enquiring about were the words that a writer could use without being offensive, not a character. If I have a crude/nasty/whatever character, I will use whatever words that character requires regardless of how offensive they are. If the reader finds an offensive character offensive, isn't that good?

For myself, though, I don't want to be offensive as such, so when I do use an offensive word I want to do so knowingly, and only in those scenes where the word itself lends something to the scene.

If anyone knows of a word that could easily be used in erotica, but that is particularly offensive to some people, please mention it here!

If not, again we get back to limitations as a writer and observer of the breadth of human types.

Certainly I try my best not to swear in real life (so it always shocks my wife when I stub a toe or something) but I have heard some people for whom swearwords are like punctuation.

Ysoi

 

[PennLady]

Part of my motivation is, as I mentioned in the opener, that I want to write interesting and arousing stories. (Unfortunately, I think that my stories are more often interesting (to me) than arousing, but hey ho.) ( ; _ ; )

The second part is, however, that I would like other people to feel the same way about them as I do. (Well, hopefully less critical!) If that means that I have to use italics instead of bold, or use certain grammar, or even that I have to avoid certain topics (urination & squirting "spring" to mind) then I can live with that.

The problem is, you will never reach any kind of consensus on what people on Lit like, because there are so many people with a huge range of interests. There are two basic topics here that are verboten -- bestiality and underage sex. Other than that, anything goes.

Write what you want to write about. If you try to write for the readers, you'll never get anywhere. If you have a story to tell, write it and people will read it. I can't tell you how many or how often or who will like it, but there's bound to be someone who'll read it. You simply can't appeal to everyone.

I think that my problem with that is that the quality of feedback is often very low, so you really have to play the numbers game in order to find that one reader who will give some constructive criticism or even just to get a decent number of votes... If people are dropping out just because of "?!" or <B><I>bold italics</I></B>, then that not only limits the amount that I can learn from them, but also reduces my chances of having someone like what I have actually written. :|

Ysoi

Although there are many good readers out there who provide good feedback, this is not a place to look for random feedback. This is not peer review. Few people vote, and fewer leave comments. If you really want feedback -- not just comments -- you should post links to your stories on the Story Feedback forum and request feedback. You'll have to sift through it and decide what works for you, and who you think is constructive and not.

I've often told people -- do not live and die by your ratings or feedback here. You have to take it all with a grain of salt and I don't think there's anything you can do to guarantee readers or votes or feedback.

 

[TinyBeth]

Certainly I try my best not to swear in real life (so it always shocks my wife when I stub a toe or something) but I have heard some people for whom swearwords are like punctuation.

Ysoi

I can confirm that. If I were setting a story amongst certain groups such as musicians, sailors, professional wrestlers or hoods of any sort I would expect a lot more vulgarity both from the characters and from the situation.

 

[Ysoi]

Thanks PennLady!

The problem is, you will never reach any kind of consensus on what people on Lit like, because there are so many people with a huge range of interests. There are two basic topics here that are verboten -- bestiality and underage sex. Other than that, anything goes.

Write what you want to write about. If you try to write for the readers, you'll never get anywhere. If you have a story to tell, write it and people will read it. I can't tell you how many or how often or who will like it, but there's bound to be someone who'll read it. You simply can't appeal to everyone.

I think I'm being misunderstood a little bit. I will write the story that I want to write - and in fact I think that some people will look at one particular word that is used quite often within my current story and just go elsewhere. What I am trying to do is to write the story that I want, and have other readers who might enjoy what I write not be put off by the way in which it is written/formatted/whatever.

REF activities within a story : To me a story is not so much about what happens when or what the characters do when they have sex / make love - though that can be important - but more about why they have sex / make love and what it means to them. If changing something that they do allows more people to finish it, then - within reason - I don't mind doing that. (I say within reason, because I have a plan for an incest story based on tribes-women capturing centaurs that I'm pretty sure lots of people will complain about. Will have to include lots of warnings on that one.)

I understand that you can't appeal to everyone, but what you can try to do is to not put off the majority.

Although there are many good readers out there who provide good feedback, this is not a place to look for random feedback. This is not peer review. Few people vote, and fewer leave comments. If you really want feedback -- not just comments -- you should post links to your stories on the Story Feedback forum and request feedback. You'll have to sift through it and decide what works for you, and who you think is constructive and not.

I must admit, I hadn't noticed that forum.
Thank you for pointing it out, and I'll post something once I can gather up my courage!

Ysoi

 

[Ysoi]

Okay, where are the cameras?

Certainly I try my best not to swear in real life (so it always shocks my wife when I stub a toe or something) but I have heard some people for whom swearwords are like punctuation.

Ysoi

I can confirm that.

You can confirm that it shocks my wife when I swear?!



Ysoi

 

[SamScribble]

One person's vulgar is another's colourful. I do think readers on the western side of the great Atlantic pond are a little more squeamish than those on the eastern side though.

 

[sr71plt]

One person's vulgar is another's colourful. I do think readers on the western side of the great Atlantic pond are a little more squeamish than those on the eastern side though.

That's because the east side of the pond dumped all of its Puritans on the west side of the pond.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Hi.

English literature is full of people who were not native english speakers and yet who wrote outstanding and famous works in the english language. At the same time, although many of these - e.g. Joseph Conrad - managed to write technically very well indeed, and conveyed as much about emotions and human psychology as anyone, it is certainly clear to me at least, that they mostly ALL never could come completely to grips with idiom and the way quite sophisticated meanings are implied in otherwise peculiar usages (of specific words).

I can't agree at all that the word 'cunt' is offensive. The word is often of course appropriated by many people using it to say something THEY mean to be offensive. And there you go... The OP's reference to 'vulgarity' gives a clue to the point of it: vulgar = common. And the vulgar use of something is, well, just common - and fairly valueless.

And what is commonly used, is often both usually incorrect, misused, misunderstood, and wrong.

Fair enough if you step too far away from what is normal useage and begin to use a word that NO ONE ever uses in a particular way, then, of course, that isn't a very valid thing.

I'm not personally going to criticise the resorting to statistics in this case, though - I find that whenever I use a pornographic word in the title, I get huge numbers of readers, and by contrast when I use what I think are interesting but not vulgar, words, the numbers of readers goes down, but you know what, the ratings number goes way up!! Not sure I exactly understand what is going on, but...

There is often a unstated implication behind what words people use, and it is this that carries greater weight than the actual words. And that is true both in writing and in speaking.

I think it's quite an interesting point that the OP raised.

 

[Ysoi]

Baffled

I can't agree at all that the word 'cunt' is offensive. The word is often of course appropriated by many people using it to say something THEY mean to be offensive.

And there you go... The OP's reference to 'vulgarity' gives a clue to the point of it: vulgar = common. And the vulgar use of something is, well, just common - and fairly valueless.

And what is commonly used, is often both usually incorrect, misused, misunderstood, and wrong.

I'm going to try to translate what you've written

1) cunt is not offensive
(why not? because it's just a word? but isn't the value of a word in its meaning?)

2) people use the word cunt when they mean something offensive
(when I write "he thrust his cock into her cunt", I do not mean something offensive, although some people might find my choice of words offensive, so I guess I'm not normal?) <- could be true

3) many people use it which makes it common?
(your point being what?)

4) because it's common it's valueless?
(food and water are common, are they valueless?)

5) what is commonly used is often wrongly understood
(your point being what? that everyone who is offended by it is just misunderstanding it? that everyone who uses it to try to be offensive is actually using the wrong word, because actually they should say something else?)

Um.

Might I suggest that you buy some lemons and, whilst thinking happy thoughts, set yourself up in a busy high-street with a sign offering glasses of freshly squeezed cunt for a dollar each?

I'm sure you can find a lawyer willing to argue that those you offended were mistaken, and that your happy thoughts clearly indicated that what you meant was lemonade.

I think it's quite an interesting point that the OP raised.

Whilst I am glad that you think so, I do think that you are reading something into my words that was never there and that I would probably have to take drugs to see for myself.

Ysoi

 

[sun_sea_sky]

You can confirm that it shocks my wife when I swear?

That reminds me of one of Isaac Asimov's jokes.

A man teasingly ran his hand over his friend's bald head.

"You know, that feels as smooth as my wife's behind."

His friend ran his own hand over his head.

"You know what? You are right!"

 

[Bramblethorn]

Now when I write I will use the vulgar terms if they seem necessary, but at the same time I don't want to use a word that seems either <I>too</I> vulgar or infantile. My desire is to write something that is interesting and hopefully arousing rather than offensive - and thus for that reason I tend to avoid "cunt" in favour of the word "pussy" unless I am trying to emphasise the uncivilised nature of a scene. (To me the former has always seemed ruder, and I have heard some women say that they don't like it.)

True as a generalisation, but there are exceptions. Used sparingly and at the right moment, taboo words can become erotic between people who are comfortable with one another.

And quite a few feminists make a point of using "cunt" as a way of reclaiming the word.