Any other writers with aphantasia?

[ICantLeafYou]

Just curious if anyone else here has aphantasia.

I'm pretty far towards the extreme end of things, I have almost no visual imagination at all, no "mind's eye" like most folks. I almost never remember my dreams, but when I do, there's no images--only emotions or vague inklings that I was in a certain place or was with a particular person.

A couple of drugs have broken past that barrier. LSD and shrooms have given me mild closed-eye visuals, only colors and amorphous patterns. When I k-holed on ketamine, I had full-on kaleidoscopic visuals. Intense geometric patterns constantly changing shape and color. It was the most intense mental imagery I've ever experienced.

I never really thought about it before, but the aphantasia has to be why I'm so descriptive in my writing--whether it's general convos, sexting, or porn. I sort of assume the default is people needing overly-detailed descriptions to make sense of anything when that's not the case. Though it does seem to create an enjoyable result for everyone, I get a lot of comments about that aspect of my writing.

 

[intim8]

I never really thought about it before, but the aphantasia has to be why I'm so descriptive in my writing

I apparently have... what is the opposite called, "phantasia"? stronger than most people. When I read or write fiction, I'm all but literally watching a movie in my head. And I blame that for my over descriptiveness. I always feel like if I don't fully describe the faces, hair, clothes, body parts, furniture arrangement, position of the curtains, view out the window, weather, lighting, texture and color of the sheets or couch cushions or car seats, etc, I'm not faithfully transcribing the scene.

 

[SimonDoom]

I've always been fascinated by this condition, because I don't have it and I can't imagine it. I'm a visual person with a visual imagination. I'm more like intim8: it's like I've got a video camera running while I write, recording the images in my mind, and I'm trying to describe what I'm recording. So, it's hard for me to imagine writing without that frame of reference.

 

[TheLobster]

Since this is clearly the thread to be steered in the exact opposite direction to what OP wanted, I'll go ahead and admit that I also "suffer" from the opposite condition. My style of writing is very 'cinematic,' if you could use that word, and it's something I'm trying to improve down. At least pare down the amount of largely pointless descriptions of character's eye movements (he said, glancing sideways).

've always been fascinated by this condition, because I don't have it and I can't imagine it.

It might be the only thing that's harder to imagine the better imagination you have.

 

[lovecraft68]

I apparently have... what is the opposite called, "phantasia"? stronger than most people. When I read or write fiction, I'm all but literally watching a movie in my head. And I blame that for my over descriptiveness. I always feel like if I don't fully describe the faces, hair, clothes, body parts, furniture arrangement, position of the curtains, view out the window, weather, lighting, texture and color of the sheets or couch cushions or car seats, etc, I'm not faithfully transcribing the scene.

I'm on this end of the spectrum, my imagination is beyond vivid. Its detrimental when it comes to nightmares

 

[Erozetta]

I know two writers with aphantasia. We've had extensive conversations on it and I've come away from those conversations in awe every time. They also don't have an inner monologue.

Both are good writers and incredibly intelligent.

Neither one believes that I see full blown movies in my head constantly. They don't think I'm lying, they just don't understand in the same way I don't understand how they don't have movies constantly playing in their heads.

 

[intim8]

I don't have it and I can't imagine it. I'm a visual person with a visual imagination.

I can't imagine it either. @ICantLeafYou, when you read a novel, how to you interpret it? What is the experience like? Hell, even non-visual or abstract stuff, I tend to grok it visually, like the code I write, or technical/scientific stuff. Even philosophy. My brain turns it into images, and when I need to remember something, I pull up the images. A thing I can do, if I've briefly seen a building, say an office building, not long enough to note any specifics about it, I can pull up the "picture" in my mind later and count the windows.

I can't even imagine some other way to understand things.

 

[intim8]

Both are good writers and incredibly intelligent.

Neither one believes that I see full blown movies in my head constantly.

I don't think it has much, if anything to do with intelligence or imagination. But we're like aliens to each other, each an ungrokkable different kind of intelligence.

 

[Erozetta]

I don't think it has much, if anything to do with intelligence or imagination. But we're like aliens to each other, each an ungrokkable different kind of intelligence

Oh definitely has nothing to do with either of those things. I just included them because sometimes it sounds like I'm disparaging them for their lack of visual imagination and I'm not. I respect both of them immensely, I just think they're weird as fuck because of it, which is probably why I love having them around.

 

[ICantLeafYou]

They also don't have an inner monologue.

I do have an internal monologue, and I'd say mine is particularly intense because of my OCD. Not only do I have the regular internal monologue of most people, but I'm also counting and tracking numbers in my head 24/7.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Just curious if anyone else here has aphantasia.

I'm pretty far towards the extreme end of things, I have almost no visual imagination at all, no "mind's eye" like most folks. I almost never remember my dreams, but when I do, there's no images--only emotions or vague inklings that I was in a certain place or was with a particular person.

A couple of drugs have broken past that barrier. LSD and shrooms have given me mild closed-eye visuals, only colors and amorphous patterns. When I k-holed on ketamine, I had full-on kaleidoscopic visuals. Intense geometric patterns constantly changing shape and color. It was the most intense mental imagery I've ever experienced.

I never really thought about it before, but the aphantasia has to be why I'm so descriptive in my writing--whether it's general convos, sexting, or porn. I sort of assume the default is people needing overly-detailed descriptions to make sense of anything when that's not the case. Though it does seem to create an enjoyable result for everyone, I get a lot of comments about that aspect of my writing.

I think I’m on there somewhere. I don’t ‘see’ pictures, but I do have a vivid imagination. While I appreciate elaborate wordsmithing, and detailed descriptions, I also find I scan over those parts when reading sometimes. But if the descriptive writing is well done, I relish it like a good single malt.

I’ve also wondered if this might be a sort of cousin to dyslexia.

Another odd thing is that I am red/green color blind. My current car is a metallic grey that I swear looks green. What’s odd is that if I’m colorblind, how do I have a reference for green?

Similarly, if I’m anaphantasiac, why do I love well done elaborate descriptive writing?


The mind is a wierd and wonderful place.

 

[ICantLeafYou]

I can't imagine it either. @ICantLeafYou, when you read a novel, how to you interpret it? What is the experience like? Hell, even non-visual or abstract stuff, I tend to grok it visually, like the code I write, or technical/scientific stuff. Even philosophy. My brain turns it into images, and when I need to remember something, I pull up the images. A thing I can do, if I've briefly seen a building, say an office building, not long enough to note any specifics about it, I can pull up the "picture" in my mind later and count the windows.

I can't even imagine some other way to understand things.

I've actually never really enjoyed fantasy content [whether books, shows, or movies] partly because I can't visualize what's going on. I do read a lot of non-fiction [mostly science and history stuff] and those don't really need visualization for me to understand what I'm reading. "So-And-So invented XYZ in 1932? Cool!" That's all that goes through my head tbh.

 

[intim8]

My wife is the same, no inner imagery. She can't explain what it is like to interpret information. I guess those of us that see it visually at least have a relatable metaphor to use. Everybody can see, just not with their eyes closed. My wife has a hard time understanding that the visual thing is not actually in the eyes, like there are images overlayed on top of what I am physically seeing, or pictures on the back of my eyelids. It's more like the part of my brain that interprets the signals from my eyes can construct or reconstract that interpretation.

On the flip side, I can barely imagine or even remember tactile sensations, so I have a really hard time describing them in my stories, which is a big handicap here. But auditory things work very similar to visual things for me.

 

[intim8]

I've actually never really enjoyed fantasy content [whether books, shows, or movies] partly because I can't visualize what's going on.

Hmm. I always assumed that people with aphantasia can still enjoy fiction... somehow.

"So-And-So invented XYZ in 1932? Cool!" That's all that goes through my head tbh.

Even that triggered a vague image in my head. A 1930s street scene. Nothing for the invention part, but if there were any specifics at all - "he" or "she", or what was invented, it would. Aaaand now I have an image of a guy in a tweed jacket.

 

[ICantLeafYou]

Hmm. I always assumed that people with aphantasia can still enjoy fiction... somehow.

I'm sure there's others who do, but I just can't get into it. Even visual stuff like fictional TV and movies doesn't hold my interest. But I'll watch nature documentaries for hours.

 

[Omenainen]

I’d say my imagination is closer to aphanthasia end of that spectrum. I can imagine things visually but it’s an extra step, so usually I don’t. I think in words. My ideas about my characters for example are more a kind of feeling than image. I rarely describe what they look like because that’s not relevant to me.

I do have inner monologue and it’s also in words.

I do enjoy reading and fiction and I don’t usually visualize what I read either. I can, if I want to, but I don’t need to in order to care about what happens.

 

[Voboy]

Brings to mind another thread I remember about this topic.

 

[Britva415]

The linked article only describes aphantasia in terms of “visualization,” does it cover other senses beyond visual?

We talk about mind’s eye, are there aphantasia havers who also don’t experience a mind’s ear, mind’s nose, mind’s skin, so to speak?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Just curious if anyone else here has aphantasia.

I'm pretty far towards the extreme end of things, I have almost no visual imagination at all, no "mind's eye" like most folks. I almost never remember my dreams, but when I do, there's no images--only emotions or vague inklings that I was in a certain place or was with a particular person.

Me, usually.

I can do visuals if I consciously focus on it, and I've done do occasionally in my stories - the fantasy half of Riddle of the Copper Coin is deliberately high-visual because I'm emulating a style that's heavy on visuals, and there are other bits like Anjali's dress in Red Scarf. But my default mode is low on visuals. I pretty much never have a mental image of a character's face, whether in my own stories or somebody else's.

If I put my mind to it, I can do 3-D modelling in my head; I used to build foamcore models and I could plan out flat pieces that I'd cut and assemble to make the 3-D shape I wanted, and I don't recall any major errors with those. But it's not what I'm doing by default.

A couple of drugs have broken past that barrier. LSD and shrooms have given me mild closed-eye visuals, only colors and amorphous patterns. When I k-holed on ketamine, I had full-on kaleidoscopic visuals. Intense geometric patterns constantly changing shape and color. It was the most intense mental imagery I've ever experienced.

No drug experiences here, although migraines can do some funky things to my vision.

I never really thought about it before, but the aphantasia has to be why I'm so descriptive in my writing--whether it's general convos, sexting, or porn. I sort of assume the default is people needing overly-detailed descriptions to make sense of anything when that's not the case. Though it does seem to create an enjoyable result for everyone, I get a lot of comments about that aspect of my writing.

Whereas I generally write low-visual and focus more on personalities and situations. I figure if it works for me, there will be readers who like that too.

I can't imagine it either. @ICantLeafYou, when you read a novel, how to you interpret it? What is the experience like? Hell, even non-visual or abstract stuff, I tend to grok it visually, like the code I write, or technical/scientific stuff. Even philosophy. My brain turns it into images, and when I need to remember something, I pull up the images. A thing I can do, if I've briefly seen a building, say an office building, not long enough to note any specifics about it, I can pull up the "picture" in my mind later and count the windows.

Unless I have some reason to pay attention to that kind of detail, my brain will probably remember it at the level of "office building, drab, tall". For a while my own office was in a tower across the street from an apartment whose occupants were nudists; I remember occasional eyefuls of naked lady but I couldn't describe her beyond "Chinese?, a bit shorter than me, medium build".

 

[ElectricBlue]

@AG31 your presence is required in the lobby.

I'm the complete opposite of aphantasia - definitely in the highly visual, cinematic, filmic camp. Readers say my prose conjures up imagery in their minds as they read. I have no idea what literary techniques I use to do that, but apparently they work.

 

[XerXesXu]

My wife is the same, no inner imagery. She can't explain what it is like to interpret information. I guess those of us that see it visually at least have a relatable metaphor to use. Everybody can see, just not with their eyes closed. My wife has a hard time understanding that the visual thing is not actually in the eyes, like there are images overlayed on top of what I am physically seeing, or pictures on the back of my eyelids. It's more like the part of my brain that interprets the signals from my eyes can construct or reconstract that interpretation.

That's the nub. In part, you confuse aphantasia with amnesia, they're different. You also confuse the assumption that you remember something accurately with the issue of whether what you remember is true. 'I only caught a fleeting glimpse of the robber, but I remember with certainty that he was black.' How often do you go back and count the number of windows in a building just to make sure. We all have vivid imaginations and our 'reality' is made up 95% of imaginings. The inaccessibility of one person's cognitions to another is well established. We communicate our internal experiences in metaphors, we may differ on what metaphor is apposite to our individual experience.

I can remember what I had for breakfast, where and how it was laid out. I can remember what I'll be doing an hour from now, where, and how my tools will be laid out with no less accuracy. I would describe that as
'knowing', not 'seeing with my 'mind's eye.'

If I'm fed or feeding language - when I write or read - I experience an internal monologue. I'm also able to think abstractly with no language involved. My mind can go to places where no words, images or metaphors have been before. It's cognition Intim8, but not as some people know it.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

I'm pretty aphantasic. I do have

the aphantasia has to be why I'm so descriptive in my writing

I'm the opposite. Quite aphantasic, and description does not come naturally to me at all. One of my early stories I doubled in length by adding descriptions of things. @Bramblethorn 's description rings much more true for me.

If I put my mind to it, I can do 3-D modelling in my head;

Yep, same here. I sew and I draft my own patterns, which requires mentally folding the two dimensional pieces of fabric into the three dimensional shape of the final product. I can do this.

I have wondered if I don't do it the same way phantasic people do, though. For me it feels almost like constructing a geometric proof: this point meets this point, so these lengths must be equal, and it's radially symmetric so the other side will be the same...

 

[gunhilltrain]

I apparently have... what is the opposite called, "phantasia"? stronger than most people. When I read or write fiction, I'm all but literally watching a movie in my head. And I blame that for my over descriptiveness. I always feel like if I don't fully describe the faces, hair, clothes, body parts, furniture arrangement, position of the curtains, view out the window, weather, lighting, texture and color of the sheets or couch cushions or car seats, etc, I'm not faithfully transcribing the scene.

That might be a problem, because one constantly has to make judgement calls to leave in or edit out details depending on how important they might be for the story. Updike has his main character in the Rabbit novels running an car dealership (Toyota), so he is often describing automobiles in great detail. He also has a fondness for describing restaurants and the people who work in them.

 

[intim8]

That's the nub. In part, you confuse aphantasia with amnesia, they're different. You also confuse the assumption that you remember something accurately with the issue of whether what you remember is true. 'I only caught a fleeting glimpse of the robber, but I remember with certainty that he was black.' How often do you go back and count the number of windows in a building just to make sure. We all have vivid imaginations and our 'reality' is made up 95% of imaginings. The inaccessibility of one person's cognitions to another is well established. We communicate our internal experiences in metaphors, we may differ on what metaphor is apposite to our individual experience.

I can remember what I had for breakfast, where and how it was laid out. I can remember what I'll be doing an hour from now, where, and how my tools will be laid out with no less accuracy. I would describe that as
'knowing', not 'seeing with my 'mind's eye.'

If I'm fed or feeding language - when I write or read - I experience an internal monologue. I'm also able to think abstractly with no language involved. My mind can go to places where no words, images or metaphors have been before. It's cognition Intim8, but not as some people know it.

Amnesia never even came up, where are you getting that?

The point of the building example wasn't that it was completely accurate, it's that it is completely visual, to the point where I examine it for details.

Yes, any such visualuzation will have some constructed parts. It may or may not be accurate as to the number of windows in any specific case, but generally, I rely on visual memory for most things. Navigating roads and streets. Writing code. Recalling past events. I've found it highly reliable overall.

The point of this thread has been comparing experiences, not convicting criminals.

 

[AlexBailey]

This is an eye opener for me. I can’t imagine not having visualizations constantly in my head.

I have synesthesia and constant musical imagery. My dreams are vivid and in full color and smell and are occasionally lucid - at least the ones I can remember.

Last night I dreamt I was in an old Victorian town that had fallen into disrepair and blight. The houses and buildings were ornate and colorful but dry rot and moss had weakened the structures to the point they could collapse at anytime. One did collapse and I could smell everything- the wood, the rot, the soil, the old carpets….

Sounds, numbers, emotions, and tasks have strong associations with colors for me. The best way to share the idea is “blues” music. When I was a kid I couldn’t understand why there weren’t color names for other genres. When I’m playing music without distractions I can “see” various ribbons flowing from the sources.

It was first brought to my attention that not everyone had it as a kid when learning to count. I mentioned to my mother that the 20’s, 30’s, 40’s all had different colors but 100 had a metallic look - “shiny like a garbage can.” My mom was concerned and asked my pediatrician about it. He wasn’t concerned.

Internal monologue and music is constant entertainment. I’ve often had other people ask why I don’t turn on the radio while working. My partner now often asks me “what’s playing?” because he knows there’s always something. Right now it’s Bob Marley’s Mellow Mood.

Psychedelics and drugs are overwhelming. I’m a “light weight” compared most people I’ve known when it comes to mushrooms or LSD. No thanks, I’m good without them.



When writing I can visualize entire backstories to even minor characters. I can imagine their interests, their families, their upbringing, their smells, the way their hair does or doesn’t cooperate with their styling. It’s a challenge to leave out extraneous details. I’ve been working on a spin off to my novel about two of the existing minor characters. There is enough about them and several other characters in the original story that I can write other stories that already have tie-ins and intersections simply because they were already fleshed out in my head as I wrote about the main characters arch. Now if only I could find the time and focus to finish my other drafts…. Did I mention ADHD?