Another Republican, Fuck You, Slut, to the women of America

[NeverEndingMe]

Ask yourself several simple questions: If the legislation passed, would there be mass lawsuits? How would companies prove in a court that a woman is being paid what they are worth? How will women prove in a court that they are underpaid?

who gets to value what someone is worth? oh yeah, the democrats! God forbid an employer, who has their house mortgaged for this company gets to decide how much he is willing to pay someone

this was a steaming pile of obama crap

 

[NeverEndingMe]

As a woman, I'd be okay with the failure of this law if they passed a bill making all salaries and salary structures public within the company. That would expose a hell of a lot more than simple gender equality, I think.

I don't think making salaries public is a good idea.

1. it will leak out to a competitor
2. get tool for headhunters to steal employees

I understand what you are saying, and see your point. just not sure its a good idea

 

[Raidho]

I'm fine with this. I doubt it'll ever happen but still.

It's so screwed up where I work that the hospital fronts the background check and other fees before the salary or the job is offered. They spend whatever it costs only to offer a salary that is, on average, over seven percent less than identical jobs with comparable companies, and that's just what they've released publicly.

About a year ago, they accidentally posted salary ranges on our intranet as part of our company policy. I had access to them previously, but I now make them available to anyone who asks any sort of salary question.

 

[gotsnowgotslush]

June 5, 2012
For the nine years that Terri Kelly and her husband held the same pharmaceutical sales representative jobs-

They marketed many of the same drugs, fulfilled the same responsibilities, and achieved similarly excellent performance.
But during those nine years, Ms. Kelly was always paid thousands of dollars less each year – even when she gradually
outperformed him. More than $65,000 less, in fact.

Ms. Kelly testified that were it not for her husband's paychecks, she would have been unaware of the true scale of her underpayment.
"At Novartis, we are not allowed to discuss our compensation, so I never would have imagined that I was making thousands of dollars
less each year. If the Paycheck Fairness Act were in place, I would not have had these problems in the first place, and maybe none of
the other women would have either. I'm hoping no other women will experience what I did and that Congress will help all of us make sure
we are fairly paid in the future," said Ms. Kelly.

The Paycheck Fairness Act (S.797, H.R.1519). The Act, sponsored by Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) and Representative Rosa DeLauro (D-CT),
would have protected employees against retaliation for discussing their salaries with colleagues; create a negotiation skills training program
for women and girls; recognize excellence in employers' pay practices; provide assistance to businesses to help them achieve pay equity;
and otherwise provide additional tools to employees and government agencies in combating pay inequality.

http://markets.chron.com/chron/news/read?GUID=21502560

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

I don't think making salaries public is a good idea.

1. it will leak out to a competitor
2. get tool for headhunters to steal employees

I understand what you are saying, and see your point. just not sure its a good idea

So you are anti free market? Because the market goes more than one way champ....you don't want companies to start getting competitive with how they treat their employees? Tyrannical sack of shit...

June 5, 2012
For the nine years that Terri Kelly and her husband held the same pharmaceutical sales representative jobs-

They marketed many of the same drugs, fulfilled the same responsibilities, and achieved similarly excellent performance.
But during those nine years, Ms. Kelly was always paid thousands of dollars less each year – even when she gradually
outperformed him. More than $65,000 less, in fact.

Ms. Kelly testified that were it not for her husband's paychecks, she would have been unaware of the true scale of her underpayment.
"At Novartis, we are not allowed to discuss our compensation, so I never would have imagined that I was making thousands of dollars
less each year. If the Paycheck Fairness Act were in place, I would not have had these problems in the first place, and maybe none of
the other women would have either. I'm hoping no other women will experience what I did and that Congress will help all of us make sure
we are fairly paid in the future," said Ms. Kelly.

The Paycheck Fairness Act (S.797, H.R.1519). The Act, sponsored by Senator Barbara Mikulski (D-MD) and Representative Rosa DeLauro (D-CT),
would have protected employees against retaliation for discussing their salaries with colleagues; create a negotiation skills training program
for women and girls; recognize excellence in employers' pay practices; provide assistance to businesses to help them achieve pay equity;
and otherwise provide additional tools to employees and government agencies in combating pay inequality.

http://markets.chron.com/chron/news/read?GUID=21502560

There it is....there is the meat of this legislation in bold, that's what it was REALLY about. And I love the ambiguous sob story given before hand to soften the blow of "we don't just want money....we want a SHIT LOAD OF MONEY!!!"

I said it before and it wont be the last time.......follow the money, if you can't find any you just might have an honest piece of equality/fairness legislation.

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi on Thursday condemned companies that pay women less than men, but was unwilling to condemn Senate Democrats who pay their female staffers less than male staffers, saying that the Senate is “another world.”

Speaking in Washington, D.C., Pelosi reminded everyone that there shouldn’t be income disparity between men and women.

“It’s 2012. It’s 2012, everybody. What is it we’re talking about women getting paid less? Are you going home to your little girls each day and saying: ‘Work hard, study hard, be diligent so that when you grow up you can make less than your brother?”

She added, “There seems to be a decision somewhere in some companies and parts of our economy that that’s an okay thing to do.”

BUT

According to publicly available salary data at the website Legistorm, Pelosi’s female employees earned an average annual salary of $96,394 in fiscal year 2011. Male employees earned $123,000 on average, a difference of 27.6 percent.

The gap is even larger if calculated using the median salaries for men and women. For Pelosi’s female employees, the median annual salary was $93,320 in 2011, compared to $130,455 for male employees—a difference of $37,135, or 40 percent.

Pelosi’s entire staff—men and women—earned an average annual salary of $108,150 and a median salary of $114,662. By both measures, women made considerably less.

A dem saying do as I say not as I do....just like a republican...poetic justice.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I don't think making salaries public is a good idea.

1. it will leak out to a competitor
2. get tool for headhunters to steal employees
I understand what you are saying, and see your point. just not sure its a good idea

That's exactly what we want. If workers have to compete with each other to do the best job for the lowest wages possible isn't it fair that employers have to compete to keep workers from employers who would pay them more?

 

[NeverEndingMe]

That's exactly what we want. If workers have to compete with each other to do the best job for the lowest wages possible isn't it fair that employers have to compete to keep workers from employers who would pay them more?

and you wonder why your past companies failed. I really feel horrible for all those poor people at facebook. well, if the stock doesn't tank .

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

and you wonder why your past companies failed. I really feel horrible for all those poor people at facebook. well, if the stock doesn't tank .

You ARE a freedom hating sack of shit.....you, Obama and Pelosi should hang out some time.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

You ARE a freedom hating sack of shit.....you, Obama and Pelosi should hang out some time.

what are you smoking?

what didn't you like? are you upset that people who are working at Facebook are now worth billions?

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

what are you smoking?

what didn't you like? are you upset that people who are working at Facebook are now worth billions?

Northern Lights x Blueberry Kush cross strain of organic hydro grown under LEDs...tasty..

No...they deserve it, they built/invested in it they should get every penny coming to them.

I'm calling you a freedom hating scum bag b/c you are against companies having to compete for their employees. What PussBubble Renaud said was dead on...employees should be free to share that info and the company should have to provide that info to anyone that wants it.

Free market competition works great both directions...and be legitimately fair and equal for all. I'm not saying they have to publish it...but they should not be able to keep it secret either.

 

[derpybody]

derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp!

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Northern Lights x Blueberry Kush cross strain of organic hydro grown under LEDs...tasty..

No...they deserve it, they built/invested in it they should get every penny coming to them.

I'm calling you a freedom hating scum bag b/c you are against companies having to compete for their employees. What PussBubble Renaud said was dead on...employees should be free to share that info and the company should have to provide that info to anyone that wants it.

Free market competition works great both directions...

so you've never started a business. I understand

 

[atmas]

Fail.

This brings us to our larger point: Broad comparisons are inherently problematic. As the BLS points out: “Users should note that the comparisons of earnings in this report are on a broad level and do not control for many factors that may be significant in explaining earnings differences.”

Indeed, economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis surveyed economic literature and concluded that “research suggests that the actual gender wage gap (when female workers are compared with male workers who have similar characteristics) is much lower than the raw wage gap.” They cited one survey, prepared for the Labor Department, which concluded that when such differences are accounted for, much of the hourly wage gap dwindled, to about 5 cents on the dollar.

Not only did the White House pick the statistic that makes the wage gap look the worst, but then officials further tweaked the numbers to make the situation for African Americans and Hispanics look even more dire.

The BLS, for instance, says the pay gap is relatively small for black and Hispanic women (94 cents and 91 cents, respectively) but the numbers used by the White House compare their wages against the wages of white men. Black and Hispanic men generally earn less than white men, so the White House comparison makes the pay gap even larger, even though the factors for that gap between minority women and white men may have little to do with gender.





http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...e-gap/2012/06/04/gJQAYH6nEV_blog.html?hpid=z2

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

so you've never started a business. I understand

Ummmm....I run my own business quite successfully numb nuts.

What does that have to do with companies not making salary/benefits information available? Or even worse, threatening peoples jobs if they discuss it...

You think making companies compete for their employees is bad for business...that's cool....you go ahead and be a proponent of tyranny.

 

[RoryN]

http://media-cache1.pinterest.com/upload/144818944237865051_u1xZbnZl_c.jpg

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Ummmm....I run my own business quite successfully numb nuts.

What does that have to do with companies not making salary/benefits information available? Or even worse, threatening peoples jobs if they discuss it...

You think making companies compete for their employees is bad for business...that's cool....you go ahead and be a proponent of tyranny.

okay dokie, and what industry are you in?

what do you pay?
salary or any profit sharing? what about commission?

it should be police that employes don't compare salaries. course they will. but you are wrong on this one.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

okay dokie, and what industry are you in?

what do you pay?
salary or any profit sharing? what about commission?

it should be police that employes don't compare salaries. course they will. but you are wrong on this one.

LOL I'm a small business owner man...I'm an owner/operator farmer, though I will be expanding soon.

God forbid a company have to be competitive to keep it's employees.....might cut into the CEO's multi million dollar christmas bonus few percentage points

Free market competition is healthy both ways....but I can clearly see that you are a proponent of corporate fascism and the financial enslavement of the middle class down. Along with all the cronies that want to keep it secret so they can clip a few grand here and there for the billionaire boss's wallet at the expense of those who wont make in their lifetime what he/she makes each month. You really are a scum bag....

 

[NeverEndingMe]

LOL I'm a small business owner man...I'm an owner/operator farmer, though I will be expanding soon.

God forbid a company have to be competitive to keep it's employees.....might cut into the CEO's multi million dollar christmas bonus few percentage points

Free market is healthy both ways....but I can clearly see that you are a proponent of corporate fascism and the financial enslavement of the middle class down. Along with all the cronies that want to keep it secret so they can clip a few grand here and there for the billionaire boss's wallet at the expense of those who wont make in their lifetime what he/she makes each month. You really are a scum bag....

wow, getting nasty. how nice of you. your ignorance is shining through. you are clearly missing my points and your own bad experiences have clouded your mind. don't be a hater.

I've never said to pay little. any good employee should be cherished. any good business person knows it costs money to replace a valued employee

some people are worth more money than others. that is a fact.

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

wow, getting nasty. how nice of you. your ignorance is shining through. you are clearly missing my points and your own bad experiences have clouded your mind. don't be a hater.

I've never said to pay little. any good employee should be cherished. any good business person knows it costs money to replace a valued employee

some people are worth more money than others. that is a fact.

That was nasty...sorry.

And what you said is true...but this is where my free market mind goes. If you have a rockin employee and take good care of them they will be quite hesitant to jump ship. If they suck...fire that ass or let them walk and become someone else's problem.

If I had a really good assistant....and NEEDED him/her I would offer them the best I could or was willing to give and leave the choice in their hands. If they bail I will find another, that's just a reality you have to deal with even if you don't make their pay info available. Esp as a small business owner....the threat of corporation x coming in and stealing your people is always a threat.


I also think the employee market will regulate itself....it may be bumpy at first but the salaries will settle, a lot of commission jobs where performance dictates salary like sales will be totally unaffected. But what is a sectary, janitor, cubical monkey worth? Those salaries will be regulated in a free market much the same cost of products/services would be.

It would be a truly fair/equal employee-employer relationship dictated by market price of what someone is willing to pay you...not race, religion, social status, gender etc.

 

[Ham Murabi]

So how many people here work at places where women earn less than men for doing the same work?
If businesses could actually save $10,000 a year per employee by hiring women instead of men, there would be a butt load more men on the jobless line.
Mostly I'm saddened by otherwise intelligent people who actually believe the government can make something fair. This fairness law is a full employment measure for lawyers.
And have you read the stories that the women senators with (D) by their names pay their female staffers less?

 

[KRCummings]

It's an unnecessary law and wouldn't be more than a back page blurb if it weren't an election year.

 

[FloridaCouple]

ask yourself this....does that really have anything to do with this legislation?

or is it the 1.6 trillion a year in welfare alone (not to mention educational programs) they want? hmmmmmmmm....no way it's the money right?

Keep in mind if they are discriminated against they can sue the shit out of their company as it already is.

Yes, it matters. We have a legal system. A woman can sue an employer right now if they feel they are underpaid. So why do we need this law? What is the benefit of such a law?

What will this law accomplish that the current system will not?

Not all men are paid the same salary for the same work. Do we need a law to right the wrong of some men being underpaid compared to other men?

Not all women are paid the same salary for the same work. Do we need a law to right the wrong of some women being underpaid compared to other women?

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

Yes, it matters. We have a legal system. A woman can sue an employer right now if they feel they are underpaid.

That's what I just said....L2 read.

So why do we need this law? What is the benefit of such a law?

There is no need, we already have a mountain of laws on the books prohibiting discrimination against females and minorities.

The benefit would be that Pelosi's gang would get a fuck load of funding for their programs.

What will this law accomplish that the current system will not?

Pelosi's gang would get a fuck load of funding for their programs.

Not all men are paid the same salary for the same work. Do we need a law to right the wrong of some men being underpaid compared to other men?

No...harsh reality is some people are worth more to a company than others, they pay accordingly.

Not all women are paid the same salary for the same work. Do we need a law to right the wrong of some women being underpaid compared to other women?

No...harsh reality is some people are worth more to a company than others, they pay accordingly.

Like I said...the bill had absolutely NOTHING to do with fairness or women's rights....had everything to do with the astronomical pay check the elite would get out of it.

Fairness and equality doesn't cost a fucking penny. That's why I said follow the money....if you can't find any you just might have a legit bit of fairness/equality legislation. 1.6 trillion/year + multiple programs = corrupt bullshit.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

There is no need, we already have a mountain of laws on the books prohibiting discrimination against females and minorities.

So why is there still a problem?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3xr2bcD6U1rsj9m9o1_1280.png

Some "mountain" of laws...

 

[Frizzle_Fry]

So why is there still a problem?

Some "mountain" of laws...

Well if there is such a problem and these women have a case against their employer they can sue the fuck out of their employer, unless they need some multi bullion dollar program to teach women how to do that as well

Why not just make it so peoples pay info is available? Then companies would not only have to mind their P's and Q's but also get competitive about how they treat/pay ALL of their people. On top of that ANY and ALL (gotta be fair) employees could find out if they are being discriminated against or need to ask for a raise. Wouldn't cost the tax payer a dime and might have a REAL effect on pay discrimination. We need to make our current laws more effective/enforceable, not hand out 1.6+ Trillion/year. Just what I would do...

But since you seem to support this bill I have to ask (again)....give me one logical explination as to how 1.6 Trillion/year to the women of America will end pay discrimination???

Personally I think it would exacerbate the problem, I can hear LJ fans now "Bitch ain't getting a raise, I got fucked in taxes this year so she could get her 10,600 dollar welfare check."

Tell me I'm lying.....

This particular bill was all about Pelosi and her band of parasites getting a shit load of money, and nothing to do with ending pay discrimination.

P.S. you still have not been able to find ONE SINGLE law that allows discrimination against women and minorities have you? Didn't think so...enforcement...not welfare checks.