anon comment topic from the review thread

[evelyn_carroll]

Yeah! I looked at 'Yes, I'll Spank You' and found it to be one of the more interesting serious pomes I've seen here lately. Clever, clever, clever language.

BTW (and far be it from me to blow my own...) there was a very interesting, anonymous (and slightly acerbic and bad tempered) comment on my 'Monologue Boy' this week, complaining about you lot: the 'serious' poets. I replied to it, so no point in repeating here, but it raises some issues. I'd like to know what you think.

E.

 

[flyguy69]

I think it is a comment by a reader that does not like Anna's, Eve's, Lauren's and Angeline's poetry. That is certainly his or her right, though one must wonder about the motivation when he/she lumps together such a variegated mix of poets!

Your response was very appropriate, Evelyn.

Yeah! I looked at 'Yes, I'll Spank You' and found it to be one of the more interesting serious pomes I've seen here lately. Clever, clever, clever language.

BTW (and far be it from me to blow my own...) there was a very interesting, anonymous (and slightly acerbic and bad tempered) comment on my 'Monologue Boy' this week, complaining about you lot: the 'serious' poets. I replied to it, so no point in repeating here, but it raises some issues. I'd like to know what you think.

E.

 

[PatCarrington]

Yeah! I looked at 'Yes, I'll Spank You' and found it to be one of the more interesting serious pomes I've seen here lately. Clever, clever, clever language.

BTW (and far be it from me to blow my own...) there was a very interesting, anonymous (and slightly acerbic and bad tempered) comment on my 'Monologue Boy' this week, complaining about you lot: the 'serious' poets. I replied to it, so no point in repeating here, but it raises some issues. I'd like to know what you think.

E.

as far as i'm concerned, any comment labeled "anonymous" does not deserve an answer from me, unless the poem were mine. i attach my name to every word i write and say, and i expect anyone i converse in any way with to do the same.

if the person who left that comment on your poem were to acknowledge it, i would definately have a few words to say.

i agree with fly, evelyn. your response seemed quite appropriate.

 

[Fflow]

Comment on Comment, etc

I agree that the comment should not have been left anonymously. Despite its anonymity, it does, however, have a certain grain of truth in it. I think, if I were to have written it, I might have eased into the subject a bit more gently, and not with the obvious vitriol the author expressed.

I know that I was frustrated at first, when it was quite obvious that a small group of people gave each other glowing comments and 5 votes consistantly while completely ignoring people outside their clique. Still, it isn't so surprising that people with well established and long running relationships would be more supportive to each other than to strangers. Although it could seem exclusionary, I don't care to take it personally. I can see, though, how some folks might.

I think the reviewers should comment on all of the previous day's batch of submissions. In other words, if I were the Tuesday reviewer, I would write my review of Tuesday's poems on Wednesday, after everything has been approved. That way, late approvals won't go unnoticed. (This has happened to me and, I suspect, to others.)

Anyway, I love all y'all!

srw

 

[PatCarrington]

I agree that the comment should not have been left anonymously. Despite its anonymity, it does, however, have a certain grain of truth in it. I think, if I were to have written it, I might have eased into the subject a bit more gently, and not with the obvious vitriol the author expressed.

I know that I was frustrated at first, when it was quite obvious that a small group of people gave each other glowing comments and 5 votes consistantly while completely ignoring people outside their clique. Still, it isn't so surprising that people with well established and long running relationships would be more supportive to each other than to strangers. Although it could seem exclusionary, I don't care to take it personally. I can see, though, how some folks might.

I think the reviewers should comment on all of the previous day's batch of submissions. In other words, if I were the Tuesday reviewer, I would write my review of Tuesday's poems on Wednesday, after everything has been approved. That way, late approvals won't go unnoticed. (This has happened to me and, I suspect, to others.)

Anyway, I love all y'all!

srw

i have to disagree that the anonymous comment left on Evelyn's poem has any grain of truth whatsoever. what it does contain, to my eyes, are mean-spirited references and absurd opinion that not only have nothing to do with the poem they were attached to but smack of jealousy, or perhaps frustration at the inability to raise his/her own poetry to the level of those he/she degrades.

here is the comment that was left:


I suspect Evelyn that the lack of comment on this poem is due to the political incorrectness of discusing vertically challenged men of sallow complexion with multi colored thighs.

Most of the comments on this site are from a conga line of suck holes who haven't got an opinion unless it has been preformed by someone else. Your work is challenging the mediocrity of the mafia of Annas, the Eves the Angelines and Laurens whose banal 'imagry' is so tediously obscure it's almost invisible. Not one of these, without looking over her shoulder for the second rate approval from her third rate clones has the gumption to even form a view on your work.Thus the silence. Keep it up and shove it up these self satisfied bores.

i see nothing resembling even a minor attempt to comment on evelyn's poem, only insults.

i have heard the 'clique' and 'toady' arguments many times before, in various forms. they are bullshit.

i have long ago stopped leaving comments on poetry (for reasons that are not germane), so i can not be accused here of dancing in their conga line. but i read a lot of poetry, know a few things, and feel comfortable making the statement that the four women mentioned in that comment all write poetry that should be featured in places far better than this. anyone who calls anna's, eve's, angeline's, and lauren's poetry mediocre either has an ax to grind or simply can't read, and i suggest if they find the imagery of those poets 'obscure' that the fault lies, in most cases, with the shortcomings of that reader, not those writers.

i too take issue with your remark, fFlow, that a new writer's poetry, or your poetry for that matter, is ignored while the women in question bathe each other in sunshine. when i began posting here i had no trouble receiving bushels of comments from people i did not know.

i have read much of your writing, and countless poems by all 4 of the women mentioned in the comment.

i suggest to you that if you are interested in receiving commentary in volume, that you might attempt to raise the quality of your verse to theirs.

 

[Angeline]

I agree that the comment should not have been left anonymously. Despite its anonymity, it does, however, have a certain grain of truth in it. I think, if I were to have written it, I might have eased into the subject a bit more gently, and not with the obvious vitriol the author expressed.

I know that I was frustrated at first, when it was quite obvious that a small group of people gave each other glowing comments and 5 votes consistantly while completely ignoring people outside their clique. Still, it isn't so surprising that people with well established and long running relationships would be more supportive to each other than to strangers. Although it could seem exclusionary, I don't care to take it personally. I can see, though, how some folks might.

I think the reviewers should comment on all of the previous day's batch of submissions. In other words, if I were the Tuesday reviewer, I would write my review of Tuesday's poems on Wednesday, after everything has been approved. That way, late approvals won't go unnoticed. (This has happened to me and, I suspect, to others.)

Anyway, I love all y'all!

srw

Anyone who knows me at all would laugh at the notion of me being part of a clique. I don't do cliques, never did--if anything I'm more likely to subscribe to Groucho's comment of not wanting to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.

I used to comment on new poems all the time, was a regular reviewer for two years (which is--as those who've done reviews are well aware--is a labor of love; it's work, it takes time) and made it a point to recommend new poets whose poems I liked. I never gave glowing praise to poems I personally didn't care for, but that's what the new poems reviews are supposted to be about--recommending poems the reviewer likes, not trashing or praising without reason. I stopped commenting for two reasons: 1) I simply don't have time now because I'm working and busy with other stuff and 2) many new poets here made it clear that unless they received praise, they didn't want a comment. So now I don't comment except very rarely and then it is generally on poems by people whose writing I know and generally like and who I also know won't be offended if I offer constructive criticism.

So to set the record straight yet again, there it is. As far as the banality of my poems and the tedious obscurity of their imagery, oh well, I'll just pull that arrow out, toss it aside, and keep writing.

 

[Rybka]

I know that I was frustrated at first, when it was quite obvious that a small group of people gave each other glowing comments and 5 votes consistantly while completely ignoring people outside their clique. Still, it isn't so surprising that people with well established and long running relationships would be more supportive to each other than to strangers. Although it could seem exclusionary, I don't care to take it personally. I can see, though, how some folks might.

I have never seen that from the people referred to, although there at times appear to be some authors who carry their own fan clubs and “5 bombers” with them, or are accomplished computer users who can easily create multiple aliases and addresses. – However else to explain the uncritical gushing over obvious crap? (And whether our tastes agree or not, You must agree that at times there is crap posted as poetry on the Literotica poetry board.)

I think the reviewers should comment on all of the previous day's batch of submissions. In other words, if I were the Tuesday reviewer, I would write my review of Tuesday's poems on Wednesday, after everything has been approved. That way, late approvals won't go unnoticed. (This has happened to me and, I suspect, to others.)

You, and everyone else, have the right and are continually invited to make your own recommendations and comments on this forum at any time you choose.
Late in the day postings can be a problem at times, but it is quite time consuming to read and review all the new poems. A reviewer may very well have time constraints and be able to devote attention to the new poems only at a specific time. - Believe it or not, daily reviewers do not plan their entire life around reading your poetry.
Commenting on every poem isn’t feasible either. It is not always possible to say something “nice” about each poem, and more contributors want only “fluff & puff” laudations than honest criticism; as anyone who has made candid comments can attest. - (I once honestly said that I found no poems that rose above average on a certain day and would make no comments nor recommendations. People objected venomously to that also.)

I used to comment on new poems all the time, was a regular reviewer for two years (which is--as those who've done reviews are well aware--is a labor of love; it's work, it takes time) and made it a point to recommend new poets whose poems I liked. I never gave glowing praise to poems I personally didn't care for, but that's what the new poems reviews are supposted to be about--recommending poems the reviewer likes, not trashing or praising without reason. I stopped commenting for two reasons: 1) I simply don't have time now because I'm working and busy with other stuff and 2) many new poets here made it clear that unless they received praise, they didn't want a comment. So now I don't comment except very rarely and then it is generally on poems by people whose writing I know and generally like and who I also know won't be offended if I offer constructive criticism.

I too have stopped making many public comments (primarily for reason #2), and have been taken to task for it. I now send my comments by e-mail or PM.
And I really enjoy finding a new poet whose work I can praise as I did yesterday. To paraphrase an old joke, that is why I willingly dig through all the (horse) shit hoping to find the pony that must be buried in there somewhere!

 

[twelveoone]

It is a shame, I see three top notch poets above not making comments, because of an inability of some to take criticsm. It is a loss to anyone who wishes to improve.
It is also of interest that these four names are mentioned, I cannot think of four more different styles, and I do not remember seeing these four names ever grouped in one poem's comments. If that poem exists, damn, I would like to see it.

 

[sophia jane]

I'm going to have to jump in here. I can't attest to whether cliques exist or not because I don't post on the poetry board very often and I also don't follow others' comments on the poems, so I have no idea who says what about anything.

That said, I actually received far more votes and pc's on the first poems I posted than I do now. I don't think this is due to a decline in my poetry (at least I hope not!). What I do think is that several of you do try to encourage new poets in their writing. I am very grateful for that. If not for the positive feedback I received on the first poems I posted, I probably would not have posted any more. So thanks for that.

Forgot to say- anyone is welcome to offer me criticisms on my poems. I'm not one of those who needs to hear fluff comments.

SJ

 

[evelyn_carroll]

What the fuck have I started here?

Listen, guys, you don’t need to defend yourselves; only the guilty need a defence. The original surly commentator on my monologue did raise a point that had worried me before I saw it: that my anti-PC stance might be misinterpreted. I was glad to be able to correct that. On the other hand, he (it has to be a he) went off into this less useful rant about cliques an’ stuff. OK, clique or community? I find the community aspect more prevalent than that of the clique. And I LOVE criticism. More please. Although, this would be more useful for my stories than my poems. The poems are all style parodies, not intended to be great art and, often, just an outlet for my ‘child’. The stories are my attempt to teach myself to become a half-adequate novelist. I came here for criticism. Praise is nice but comments like ‘made me hard’ (I’ve had plenty of those) are less than helpful.

Stop beating yourselves up.
Evelyn C

 

[PatCarrington]

It is a shame, I see three top notch poets above not making comments, because of an inability of some to take criticsm. It is a loss to anyone who wishes to improve.
It is also of interest that these four names are mentioned, I cannot think of four more different styles, and I do not remember seeing these four names ever grouped in one poem's comments. If that poem exists, damn, I would like to see it.

it is a shame, but nevertheless it is the truth.

and it is a lot more than 3 poets who have stopped commenting because constructive criticism is misinterpreted so often.

i give eve all the credit in the world that she keeps chugging along, commenting on almost everything. but to do so, she has to use a lot a sugar so people don't get offended. she always tries to speak positively, and ignores obvious weakness. she is very sensitive to newer poets, and i think she deserves everyone's kudos for her patience and her willingness to always look for the slightest reason to praise.

as far as "fan clubs" go, the only ones i see consisitently are those that follow an author from other boards when they post poetry here occasionally. when that happens, i see comments from people who NEVER comment on poetry unless they are chasing a friend's tail across those borders.

 

[PatCarrington]

Listen, guys, you don’t need to defend yourselves; only the guilty need a defence. The original surly commentator on my monologue did raise a point that had worried me before I saw it: that my anti-PC stance might be misinterpreted. I was glad to be able to correct that. On the other hand, he (it has to be a he) went off into this less useful rant about cliques an’ stuff. OK, clique or community? I find the community aspect more prevalent than that of the clique. And I LOVE criticism. More please. Although, this would be more useful for my stories than my poems. The poems are all style parodies, not intended to be great art and, often, just an outlet for my ‘child’. The stories are my attempt to teach myself to become a half-adequate novelist. I came here for criticism. Praise is nice but comments like ‘made me hard’ (I’ve had plenty of those) are less than helpful.

Stop beating yourselves up.
Evelyn C

good attitude, evelyn.

this is an issue that has surfaced quite often before, so it has certain sensitivites. there's nothing more to it than that.

 

[Angeline]

It is a shame, I see three top notch poets above not making comments, because of an inability of some to take criticsm. It is a loss to anyone who wishes to improve.
It is also of interest that these four names are mentioned, I cannot think of four more different styles, and I do not remember seeing these four names ever grouped in one poem's comments. If that poem exists, damn, I would like to see it.

I hear you 1201, but for me it's mainly the time thing. I get at least a few people a week asking me via email or pm to review their poems, which I almost always do. I came here because I love poetry, but I want to write it too, lol, and when I reach the point where between work and the rest of life including responding to others' poems I don't have time to work on my own, well then I've defeated my raison d'etre.

Anyway, I think Eve, Lauren, and I are often lumped together because we're moderators and Anna might as well be one for the amount of time and effort she gives this forum. People have all kinds of agendas for why they say what they say. I recognize that these comments typically have very little to do with me and I don't sweat it. Funny thing is, I've always been totally open to constructive criticism--it's why I post poems here, so I can learn and make them better. Someone who simply criticizes without explaining why they don't like what is written does nothing to help anyone, so when I see that I shrug and ascribe it to the writer's own issues.



And I agree btw that Eve's consistent dedication to making public comments and reviewing here on the forum is laudable and, along with her excellent writing, is why her Most Influencial Poet win is so well deserved.

 

[Liar]

Forgot to say- anyone is welcome to offer me criticisms on my poems. I'm not one of those who needs to hear fluff comments.

We should put up a blanket statement kind of list, where poets can sign up and say "I don't want fluff, take your best shot and gimmie more honest critisism."

I'd sign it.

 

[Angeline]

We should put up a blanket statement kind of list, where poets can sign up and say "I don't want fluff, take your best shot and gimmie more honest critisism."

I'd sign it.

moi aussi

 

[Lauren Hynde]

We should put up a blanket statement kind of list, where poets can sign up and say "I don't want fluff, take your best shot and gimmie more honest critisism."

I'd sign it.

As far as I'm concerned, that happens when you click the "submit" button. From there on, you're fair game.

 

[Tathagata]

I think the reviewers should comment on all of the previous day's batch of submissions. In other words, if I were the Tuesday reviewer, I would write my review of Tuesday's poems on Wednesday, after everything has been approved. That way, late approvals won't go unnoticed. (This has happened to me and, I suspect, to others.)

srw

Try doing that when there are 30 poems.
I tried to do that when I first reviewed..you're talking 2 or 3 hours , and, as some one else said, trying to find something to say about every poem is sometimes impossible.

 

[Angeline]

Try doing that when there are 30 poems.
I tried to do that when I first reviewed..you're talking 2 or 3 hours , and, as some one else said, trying to find something to say about every poem is sometimes impossible.

I had days as a reviewer when there 70 poems, 90 poems. It simply isn't possible to comment on every one, especially not if you want to do a creditible job on the ones you feel deserve some discussion. And that is the rationale behind letting anyone who wants to recommend a poem, do so. It allows for the possibility of all poems receiving comments/recommendations if enough reviewers speak up.

 

[Guest]

As far as I'm concerned, that happens when you click the "submit" button. From there on, you're fair game.

Exactamundo!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Chicken.

 

[WickedEve]

Anyway, I think Eve, Lauren, and I are often lumped together because we're moderators and Anna might as well be one for the amount of time and effort she gives this forum.

So, we're no longer part of the oval? We're part of a lump? I know now why I've been avoiding this thread.

 

[flyguy69]

So, we're no longer part of the oval? We're part of a lump? I know now why I've been avoiding this thread.

In the interest of community health I offer to palpate the moderators on a regular basis to search for lumps. Strictly in the interest of community health.

 

[Rybka]

I had days as a reviewer when there 70 poems, 90 poems. It simply isn't possible to comment on every one, especially not if you want to do a creditible job on the ones you feel deserve some discussion. And that is the rationale behind letting anyone who wants to recommend a poem, do so. It allows for the possibility of all poems receiving comments/recommendations if enough reviewers speak up.

I don't remember 70 poems, but I do remember calculating at one time that I had taken over six hours to do my review and that averaged out to over 25 minutes for each one I mentioned. (That includes time for reading all of the poems) So please don't feel that time, effort, and thought don't go into what a reviewer says or even chooses.

I hate to disagree with Angeline, but if she meant what I think she said, I don't agree that time constraints are the primary reason behind letting/encouraging everyone who wants to, to comment. - To my mind, the basic reason is that this is a free and open board/thread and everyone has an equal right to voice their opinions. The 'daily reviewers' developed for no other reason than that without them days would go by without any new poems being mentioned on this forum. The 'daily reviewer' voluntarily accepts a chore (emphasis on 'chore') which requires reading every poem posted that day. Try doing that every day. If you already do, if you have that much time, why aren’t you a daily reviewer? Or at least, why don’t you post and augment the reviews of each day? – Don’t complain if you won’t explain.

All views are welcome, and because people will have different tastes, multiple reviewers are preferable to one, and certainly to none. So if you don’t tell us what you like, please don’t attack those who do. - De gustibus non disputandum!

Pax or pox - (Your choice!)

 

[Guest]

I had days as a reviewer when there 70 poems, 90 poems. It simply isn't possible to comment on every one, especially not if you want to do a creditible job on the ones you feel deserve some discussion. And that is the rationale behind letting anyone who wants to recommend a poem, do so. It allows for the possibility of all poems receiving comments/recommendations if enough reviewers speak up.

I reviewed 50 - 80 poems a week on Sundays around this time last year. Ange, you said reviewing was a 'labor of love', to me it was an all day pain in the ass. It was until I switched Wednesday's where the volume was 10 - 25 and reviewed the poems that caught my eye, along with others who made their recommendations. After that I started to enjoy it more and that's the way it should be for all the reviewers, me thinks.

 

[Angeline]

<snip>Ange, you said reviewing was a 'labor of love', to me it was an all day pain in the ass.<snip>

That's because I'm metaphorical in the sweetest way.

And I had Fridays, which of course was similar as far as quantity. Eve had Tuesdays. She's a smart little minx, isn't she?