Animal testing

[snooper]

... Raised an interesting point with the aliens though and it's one I'm not sure I know how to answer. Will think about it and may come back if I have a riposte.

The Earl

My thoughts are in http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=148095.

 

[Teenage Venus]

My thoughts are in http://www.literotica.com/stories/s....php?id=148095.

I just read it. Thought it good.

 

[Marsipanne]

Regarding aliens testing on humans:

Superhuman alien vs. human is not the same as human vs. primate, despite genetic similarities. One huge thing that will stop an alien (that is not a bad alien) is that we can communicate. I am certain that no matter how intelligent the aliens are, we will be able to communicate with them to some extent. Primates, on the other hand, cannot communicate their feelings to us or understand their situation fully. Humans would, if they were in that situation and, unless the aliens were evil, heartless things, they would choose not to use humans i.e. the hypothesis is of something that would not occur. If they were evil but strong brutes, then we just can't do anything about it.

The thing is, I see the greatest evil lie in delusion and refusal to see reason. If the aliens were intelligent, then they should be reasonable, logical etc. If the primates started communicating, humans wouldn't test on them, because immediately a bond is shared. We know we have genetic similarities with mammals, but it is something we cannot see and therefore it does not affect us directly.

I live in Cambridge and this animal testing business actually affects me quite a lot. When I walk around town, there are almost inevitably some people waving banners against animal testing and stuff (a few weeks ago, this religious person was telling everybody they were going to hell too and burn forever and ever and ever and ever and ever......). The fact is that animal testing might hurt animals, but it does save more human lives in the long run. Some people might feel that they have a stronger bond with animals, but I for one feel more attached to humans.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Superhuman alien vs. human is not the same as human vs. primate,...........

On the face if it, this sounds logical. However, it pre-supposes the 'Aliens' will be 'humanoid' in type, and have similar metabolism, logic and reasoning processes etc.

Chances are they have developed as a completely different lifeform. Within humans there is great diversity: Some worship cows, others eat them. (It would be wrong to assume one is more intelligent than the other, dependent on if they worship said cows, or eat them.) Same goes for war combatants: They can communicate, but it does not follow that either side will be more or less compassionate because of this. Religious zealots may be intelligent, but have different criteria on right and wrong.

Whether animals could communicate with us or not may have little effect: East and West civilisations have and do experiment on each other, and on their own society. (I've mentioned such attrocities carried out on sections of our own people by US Governments.)

We like to think that if/when we meet other lifeforms beyond our earth, we will reason with them and be of friendly disposition. In fact, any first contact is likely to be funded by 'Military'. As such, it will be a matter of what the military can get out of any such contact that will predominate. My own guess is if possible, a stealth approach will be used, and 'prisoners' taken to get what information they can - by any means - before any 'open' contact is made.

Human leaders will not want to share information, but dominate those they meet on explorations. History repeats its self, and 'conquest' has ever been our aim. (Be it Spanish Conquistadors, or whoever. Ask the Red Indians on here.)

I believe it inconcievable that the minutest spec of dust (Earth) is the only sourse of life in the incomprehensible vastness of space. To believe that 'God' chose us as his 'elete', and made us in his own image and likeness - unique in the Universe - has surely got to be the very pinnacle of conceit, or ignorance induced by religious fear. That's my opinion, and I know it is different to many on here - and just as many will agree with me. Hopefully we can hold such differing opinions without each 'knowing' the other is wrong, and getting angry and bitter and twisted about it with each other: In each case, it is a question of our individual perception.

 

[OldnotDead]

On the face if it, this sounds logical. However, it pre-supposes the 'Aliens' will be 'humanoid' in type, and have similar metabolism, logic and reasoning processes etc.

Chances are they have developed as a completely different lifeform. . .

I believe it inconcievable that the minutest spec of dust (Earth) is the only sourse of life in the incomprehensible vastness of space. To believe that 'God' chose us as his 'elete', and made us in his own image and likeness - unique in the Universe - has surely got to be the very pinnacle of conceit, or ignorance induced by religious fear. That's my opinion, and I know it is different to many on here - and just as many will agree with me. Hopefully we can hold such differing opinions without each 'knowing' the other is wrong, and getting angry and bitter and twisted about it with each other: In each case, it is a question of our individual perception.

I've always thought the ending to Men In Black had one of the best comments on where we might stand in the Universe. For those who never saw it (and it doesn't ruin it) at the very end we are given a glimpse of our Universe as being entirely contained in a glass globe that is part of a set of toys of another set of beings.

I think Hawking mentioned the statistics regarding other forms of life and our encountering them. I don't remember any specifics, but his main point was that out of all the history of the Universe as we think we know it, the Earth has only been here for a short time and Man's part just a 'flicker'. To think in terms of time lines of other evolutions it would be almost miraculous if we could travel the distances required to encounter other life AND be there at the same time.

I have personally always liked the idea that aliens visited us near the dawn of civilization. They returned and reported: "Tastes a little like chicken, but tough and stringy. And that Sun! Either too hot or too cold and lots of storms. Vacation elsewhere, not worth the trip."

 

[oggbashan]

Pfizers recruit people locally for drug testing. They pay well and some people do it year after year. It is popular with students - a month's free board and lodging. The usual gripe is that their diet is strictly regulated. Some leave the project fitter than when they arrived.

Og

I am surprised no one followed that up.

Pfizers most famous recent product is:























Viagra.

Would you have liked to be part of that trial as a paid volunteer?

Og

 

[Svenskaflicka]

You mean like this one?

 

[oggbashan]

That's it.

Og

 

[snooper]

Regarding aliens testing on humans:

Superhuman alien vs. human is not the same as human vs. primate, despite genetic similarities. ...

No, but it can be a useful analogy.

.... One huge thing that will stop an alien (that is not a bad alien) is that we can communicate. I am certain that no matter how intelligent the aliens are, we will be able to communicate with them to some extent. ...

Two problems, you are already judging "bad" by human standards, and the ability to communicate doesn't automatically mean better treatment. Dogs can communicate with humans very effectively; chimpanzees can learn to use symbols for abstract concepts, and 'write' sentences using simple grammar.

... Primates, on the other hand, cannot communicate their feelings to us or understand their situation fully. Humans would, if they were in that situation and, unless the aliens were evil, heartless things, they would choose not to use humans i.e. the hypothesis is of something that would not occur. If they were evil but strong brutes, then we just can't do anything about it.

Accepting your premise that humans are not "evil, heartless things" please explain the burning alive of Protestants by Catholics, and vice versa, which they justified on the basis of a morality handed down by an all-seeing, all-knowing, comassionate God whose existence was unproveable, and justified by a set of rules clearly made by fallible beings.

... The thing is, I see the greatest evil lie in delusion and refusal to see reason. If the aliens were intelligent, then they should be reasonable, logical etc. ...

Logical, yes. The difficulty is that logic allows you to deduce from a set of axioms. It is the basic axioms on which the alien is working which may be so different from ours. On the other hand they may use the same philosophy as us: "I am intelligent and the top species; therefore no other species is of the same moral status, intelligence, value as I; therefore I can eat them, experiment on them, tread on them, or anything else I please."

 

[Lisa Denton]

Maybe I'm OFF TOPIC or something. I really don't know too much about how logical these aliens you all are talking about may be, I guess I need to catch up on current events and see if we was invaded or something. I better not comment on that since I am ignorant, uh, of all the facts.

As far as animal testing I am a proud treehugger and bunnylover but these people who harrass companies and employees working for these companies I think go to far.
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The reference made to throwing acid into the faces of employees.

There have been headless nails found in trees to be cut for lumber which would have shattered a saw blade killing or mutilating some poor guy working for minumum wages in a lumber mill trying to support his family.

Killing doctors and nurses working in abortion clinics.
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All these things are to me going to far in an insane direction tageting those who do not make laws or have control over these things.

Protests to protect trees and the environment. Count me in.
Marches to protest animal cruelty. Count me in.
Petitions to stop the death penalty. Tell me where to sign.

Senseless and random violence for a just cause? You are going too far there.

This is just my opinion, I do not say everyone should feel the same way I do. I just feel that we should obey the laws and not hurt a cause by venting our frustrations via violence.