And then me...

[XXplorher]

I climb…

But you don’t see me fall.

And you say…
But you never saw…

Meanwhile…
I die…….

 

[doormouse]

I climb…

But you don’t see me fall.

And you say…
But you never saw…

Meanwhile…
I die…….

And you say...
But you never saw...

Why all the ellipses?

(okay, I give up trying to learn.)

 

[XXplorher]

And you say...
But you never saw...

Why all the ellipses?

(okay, I give up trying to learn.)

Cuz it's all timing...
And everything is unfinished...
or in need of repair.

And I'm wanting...
And no one has an answer for me. Never ever have. Ever.



And that means extra dots at the end (for the sake of 'hope').

I've been in love with the dots since the first time I went splat!. I suppose it's cheating drama. Or a crutch. Kinda like hitting the whammy bar to save a run that might have sucked. I yanked the whammy bar off the guitar many years ago.

At some point maybe I'll yank the dots as well...

 

[Sins666]

Lots left undone but its a decent start I suppose. The climbing/mountain imagery is a little over done in my humbel opinion but write as you see fit.

 

[XXplorher]

It's not a start.
It's the most 'finished' and concise thing I've ever written.


I hesitate to make this comment, but you may want to ask yourself why you have so many sigs, Sin666. I'll look like a prick for saying that, but - including it all is not always what we're after.

I tried to include a LOT in a little. (That one not so much for others, but for my own - admittedly. Which is why, I suppose, I'm allowing myself to be offended).

Read it again. It's far from generic. (I specifically wanted 'simple')

 

[Trent_Dutch]

It's not a start.
It's the most 'finished' and concise thing I've ever written.


I hesitate to make this comment, but you may want to ask yourself why you have so many sigs, Sin666. I'll look like a prick for saying that, but - including it all is not always what we're after.

I tried to include a LOT in a little. (That one not so much for others, but for my own - admittedly. Which is why, I suppose, I'm allowing myself to be offended).

Read it again. It's far from generic. (I specifically wanted 'simple')

I might look like a prick for saying this (but hey... whens that ever stopped me).... To me, the writing here, does not really come across as poetry. It just sounds like some vaguely prophetic phrasing.... its very brief, and almost oracular. Its like a painter trying to caprue an entire landscape painting one single leaf, small, and maybe in the corner of the page. Also, I don't really like much poetry that uses the word 'I' without a totally fictitious referrant... but, thats just my opinion.

 

[Du Lac]

~

this writing to me has a haiku sense.. much between the lines.. all simple yet complex. Ending but not ending... cycles spinning... hmmm seems like life to me!
du lac~

 

[PatCarrington]

I might look like a prick for saying this (but hey... whens that ever stopped me).... To me, the writing here, does not really come across as poetry. It just sounds like some vaguely prophetic phrasing.... its very brief, and almost oracular. Its like a painter trying to caprue an entire landscape painting one single leaf, small, and maybe in the corner of the page. Also, I don't really like much poetry that uses the word 'I' without a totally fictitious referrant... but, thats just my opinion.

i assume you put this thread up to get opinions, XXplorher. i agree with everything Trent Dutch said ( except his dislike for poetry with the word 'I' -- i don't understand the first person turn-off unless the poem is purely personal and has no universality whatsoever).

there really isn't much to the poetic effort you put forth. it's one thing to leave things unsaid, it's another entirely to leave 'everything' unsaid.

in my opinion, the ellipses don't work....they rarely do.

 

[Sins666]

It's not a start.
It's the most 'finished' and concise thing I've ever written.


I hesitate to make this comment, but you may want to ask yourself why you have so many sigs, Sin666. I'll look like a prick for saying that, but - including it all is not always what we're after.

I tried to include a LOT in a little. (That one not so much for others, but for my own - admittedly. Which is why, I suppose, I'm allowing myself to be offended).

Read it again. It's far from generic. (I specifically wanted 'simple')

I have so many sigs because I am what you could call a collector of sayings. I have a whole list of sayings ranging from biblical to prophetic to down right silly. Its just my "thing" as people would put it.

Back to the poem, or lack there of, at hand. I agree that it is one thing to convey alot in very few words and it is another thing entirely to just leave out purt near everything of substance. Something concise would be the following:

In a sea of soul's
drowning, oppressed
forgotten to the rush

Not exactly the best example as I wrote that in about 15seconds. I really should go search out some good haiku's and post them. Those are a prime example of concise poetry containing a whole world of meaning.

 

[Trent_Dutch]

i assume you put this thread up to get opinions, XXplorher. i agree with everything Trent Dutch said ( except his dislike for poetry with the word 'I' -- i don't understand the first person turn-off unless the poem is purely personal and has no universality whatsoever).

I just don't like 'poets' (and I use that term loosely) who think that their emotions, their experience, their existence, is/are more powerful, stronger, richer, more poetic than ordinary peoples... they/it isn't. Its exactly (the fucking) same, for audience and writer alike. Or at least it should be. Maybe that's one of the reasons why modern poetry is so poorly read. The audience (i.e. EVERYONE) is disillusioned/frightened by a Poets 'holier/better' than thou attitude. The notion that most poets have, that their own emotional experience is something special and unique in the grand theme of things, is a grossly incorrect one. And it can be quite offensive in my own humble opinion. Aswell as feeding fevered egos it only serves to profelate the "widespread popular notion that gaseous emotionalizing is exclusively identical with what we call poetry". Which it isn't. Alot of the time when I am reading poetry I just wish poets would stop feeling and start thinking for a minute.

This is not a dig at XXplorher... it really is just a general statement of my opinions about modern poetry (I said once I wouldn't get opinionated, but I've changed my mind).

 

[PatCarrington]

I just don't like 'poets' (and I use that term loosely) who think that their emotions, their experience, their existence, is/are more powerful, stronger, richer, more poetic than ordinary peoples... they/it isn't. Its exactly (the fucking) same, for audience and writer alike. Or at least it should be. Maybe that's one of the reasons why modern poetry is so poorly read. The audience (i.e. EVERYONE) is disillusioned/frightened by a Poets 'holier/better' than thou attitude. The notion that most poets have, that their own emotional experience is something special and unique in the grand theme of things, is a grossly incorrect one. And it can be quite offensive in my own humble opinion. Aswell as feeding fevered egos it only serves to profelate the "widespread popular notion that gaseous emotionalizing is exclusively identical with what we call poetry". Which it isn't. Alot of the time when I am reading poetry I just wish poets would stop feeling and start thinking for a minute.

This is not a dig at XXplorher... it really is just a general statement of my opinions about modern poetry (I said once I wouldn't get opinionated, but I've changed my mind).

poets have always created (probably unintentionally) the notion of superiority, haven't thay? simply by using language in ways other than the norm to communicate? ways that could be construed as unnecessary and even haughty?

are modern poets "holier than thou's" any louder than they ever were? i tend to think, if anything, (though i haven't considered it deeply) it may be the opposite. it seems to me there are more poets the past generation or two who want to do nothing more than reach into the soul of the masses, with both thought and especially language.

it's an interesting debate, though i'm not sure i understand the connection to your dislike of the first person nominative pronoun.

 

[twelveoone]

i assume you put this thread up to get opinions, XXplorher. i agree with everything Trent Dutch said ( except his dislike for poetry with the word 'I' -- i don't understand the first person turn-off unless the poem is purely personal and has no universality whatsoever).

there really isn't much to the poetic effort you put forth. it's one thing to leave things unsaid, it's another entirely to leave 'everything' unsaid.

in my opinion, the ellipses don't work....they rarely do.

I...

(howzat, nobody can do 'em shorter or leave more unsaid than 1201 - The Doge of Doggeral.)

 

[flyguy69]

I...

(howzat, nobody can do 'em shorter or leave more unsaid than 1201 - The Doge of Doggeral.)

O!

(my critique of 1201's seminal poem "I")

 

[twelveoone]

O!

(my critique of 1201's seminal poem "I")

?

(was it bad or good)
Hey fly, what's with the thank you's?, I thought it was a poem, was going to 75 it, for excess repititon. (I also have quota's to keep, so many 75's so many 50's, they have a rule, after 200 100's they make you hand out so many lessor scores.
Just wait to the A-hole anon's get hit with it and thay have to had out higher ones.

 

[flyguy69]

?

(was it bad or good)

Yes!

Hey fly, what's with the thank you's?,

I have retired from the submission side of Lit. The inflated praise has gone straight to my head, and I am actually trying to submit poetry to refereed journals. That should do wonders for my hat size!

My thank you's are directed at those in the lit community that have played a meaningful role in my development as a poet. Bluntly, a year ago I was not one, today I am sort-of one. I will, no doubt, gnash my teeth over the next few days as I realize the names I forgot, but everyone there has been a significant and positive influence for me.

I will, however, continue to hang around here and graffiti the boards with my august and insightful banter!

 

[twelveoone]

Yes!
I have retired from the submission side of Lit. The inflated praise has gone straight to my head, and I am actually trying to submit poetry to refereed journals. That should do wonders for my hat size!

My thank you's are directed at those in the lit community that have played a meaningful role in my development as a poet. Bluntly, a year ago I was not one, today I am sort-of one. I will, no doubt, gnash my teeth over the next few days as I realize the names I forgot, but everyone there has been a significant and positive influence for me.

I will, however, continue to hang around here and graffiti the boards with my august and insightful banter!

graffiti away, best of luck. I am impressed with the amout of growth you have shown.
Don't compromise too much, and as long as you know what you are doing, do it.
er. and it's nice to be remembered

 

[annaswirls]

I just don't like 'poets' (and I use that term loosely) who think that their emotions, their experience, their existence, is/are more powerful, stronger, richer, more poetic than ordinary peoples... they/it isn't. Its exactly (the fucking) same, for audience and writer alike. Or at least it should be. Maybe that's one of the reasons why modern poetry is so poorly read. The audience (i.e. EVERYONE) is disillusioned/frightened by a Poets 'holier/better' than thou attitude. The notion that most poets have, that their own emotional experience is something special and unique in the grand theme of things, is a grossly incorrect one. And it can be quite offensive in my own humble opinion. Aswell as feeding fevered egos it only serves to profelate the "widespread popular notion that gaseous emotionalizing is exclusively identical with what we call poetry". Which it isn't. Alot of the time when I am reading poetry I just wish poets would stop feeling and start thinking for a minute.

This is not a dig at XXplorher... it really is just a general statement of my opinions about modern poetry (I said once I wouldn't get opinionated, but I've changed my mind).

Mister Dutch,

That the experience, emotions etc of everyone is exactly the same is absurd. We cannot experience everything, and that is why we seek the experience and interpretations of others, to grow ourselves.

When writers use the pronoun I, I have found that often it is to admit their own weaknesses, fallibility... etc.

Albert Einstein once said something like: Genius is seeing what everyone has seen and thinking what no one has thought. And a poet is someone who can write these thoughts and experiences in a way that it is accessible to whoever wants to put their mind to reading it.

Not everyone can do this.

And I agree in the observation that journal type poetry, the blabbering on about broken hearts or some grand truth about everything using tired images and metaphors, seems to run rampant. But that "poetry" serves its own purpose. People have to pass through stages in their writing to be able to come to a point where you might call them a Poet without using the term loosely.

And perhaps they are just getting things off their chest.

I do not see that kind of writing in "real" modern poetry journals.

This is not a poetry journal by any stretch of the imagination. It is many things to many people, and to criticize those who use the medium as a place to explore their feelings is just silly. And if people have an illusion that their thoughts, imaginations or feelings are newly discovered on the planet, give them time, they will figure it out. Everyone is at their own place. It gets frustrating to me as well. But so does my son arguing with us (two scientists) that a gorilla is a monkey, so certain of his position! Why get annoyed? Sure, try to explain and teach, but to get annoyed or snotty with him will do nothing. He will figure it out. I am sure I had the same argument with my parents.

And pardon me for saying so, but the most amazing of modern poets, when I read them, I am often in awe of their ability to not experience different things than I do, but to see them, interpret them in a way that I can understand. I do not feel inferior, not should anyone-- perhaps just talented in a different way.


This is like saying a master craftsman is more or less talented than the fat ass that sits on the chair the craftsman designed and uses to perch hiself and write a poem. Neither could do the other's job in the same way well I Am sure there are master craftsmen poets out there.... but just an example.


They might not be able to trade seats nor should either look down upon the other.



Also, Mr. Dutch, some things that I have read of yours do not need the pronoun I -- which is at least confessing it is "just" the writer... some of yours leave out the "I" and come across telling the reader that you have answers that they do not-- how to write poetry, how to interpret poetry, etc. with a definate holier than thou tone.

I do not know you very well, I am not sure if I have read any of your poems. But you have never been afraid, from what I have seen, to share your opinions, maybe your last line was said tongue in cheek.


All the best. I need to sleep or write or something

~J

 

[WickedEve]

Mister Dutch,

That the experience, emotions etc of everyone is exactly the same is absurd. We cannot experience everything, and that is why we seek the experience and interpretations of others, to grow ourselves.

When writers use the pronoun I, I have found that often it is to admit their own weaknesses, fallibility... etc.

Albert Einstein once said something like: Genius is seeing what everyone has seen and thinking what no one has thought. And a poet is someone who can write these thoughts and experiences in a way that it is accessible to whoever wants to put their mind to reading it.

Not everyone can do this.

And I agree in the observation that journal type poetry, the blabbering on about broken hearts or some grand truth about everything using tired images and metaphors, seems to run rampant. But that "poetry" serves its own purpose. People have to pass through stages in their writing to be able to come to a point where you might call them a Poet without using the term loosely.

And perhaps they are just getting things off their chest.

I do not see that kind of writing in "real" modern poetry journals.

This is not a poetry journal by any stretch of the imagination. It is many things to many people, and to criticize those who use the medium as a place to explore their feelings is just silly. And if people have an illusion that their thoughts, imaginations or feelings are newly discovered on the planet, give them time, they will figure it out. Everyone is at their own place. It gets frustrating to me as well. But so does my son arguing with us (two scientists) that a gorilla is a monkey, so certain of his position! Why get annoyed? Sure, try to explain and teach, but to get annoyed or snotty with him will do nothing. He will figure it out. I am sure I had the same argument with my parents.

And pardon me for saying so, but the most amazing of modern poets, when I read them, I am often in awe of their ability to not experience different things than I do, but to see them, interpret them in a way that I can understand. I do not feel inferior, not should anyone-- perhaps just talented in a different way.


This is like saying a master craftsman is more or less talented than the fat ass that sits on the chair the craftsman designed and uses to perch hiself and write a poem. Neither could do the other's job in the same way well I Am sure there are master craftsmen poets out there.... but just an example.


They might not be able to trade seats nor should either look down upon the other.



Also, Mr. Dutch, some things that I have read of yours do not need the pronoun I -- which is at least confessing it is "just" the writer... some of yours leave out the "I" and come across telling the reader that you have answers that they do not-- how to write poetry, how to interpret poetry, etc. with a definate holier than thou tone.

I do not know you very well, I am not sure if I have read any of your poems. But you have never been afraid, from what I have seen, to share your opinions, maybe your last line was said tongue in cheek.


All the best. I need to sleep or write or something

~J

This is a perfect reply, anna, and it says what I've wanted to say.

 

[Du Lac]

And pardon me for saying so, but the most amazing of modern poets, when I read them, I am often in awe of their ability to not experience different things than I do, but to see them, interpret them in a way that I can understand. I do not feel inferior, not should anyone-- perhaps just talented in a different way

Nicely expressed with class and dignity Anna..
Du Lac

 

[PatCarrington]

Nicely expressed with class and dignity Anna..
Du Lac

when the ladies take a thread over, everything gets all nice and polite all of a sudden.

we should should probably take lessons.

 

[WickedEve]

when the ladies take a thread over, everything gets all nice and polite all of a sudden.

we should should probably take lessons.

Girls are so icky, aren't they?

 

[PatCarrington]

Girls are so icky, aren't they?

i thought y'all might let us slug it out this time.


.....wrong again.

 

[Du Lac]

i thought y'all might let us slug it out this time.


.....wrong again.

getting too old for the slugging... I just save it up for a real challenge now... lol..
wisdom is when you know when to pick your fights... hehehe
du~

 

[WickedEve]

i thought y'all might let us slug it out this time.


.....wrong again.

Please do so. I haven't been properly amused this morning.

 

[flyguy69]

Please do so. I haven't been properly amused this morning.

What? I made you pancakes!