An Investigation Of Ancient Stone Cutting Technology...

[Sean Renaud]

Obviously they had skills we don't understand, the product of those skills is there for us to see. If we understood it, we'd know how they did it. That doesn't mean they were 'advanced' though. I bet not a one of them would be able to program a vcr.

To be fair I'd be a bit shocked if my kids are able to program VCRs.

 

[1sickbastard]

I wouldn't totally discount Hancock's assertions, particularly off the coast of India where basically nothing is known. Yes it's possible civilizations may have come before in the Ice Age or whenever.

But it's just a theory. There's no proof of it. And all the crazy assertions people build off that unaccepted theory are just nonsense. There are no blocks of stone lying in the ocean that somehow magically proves the Bible is right or whatever. It's tedious and stupid.

There are some submerged structures off of India's western coast. Access to the site has been limited.

The end of the last ice age raised sea level by what, 200-300 feet? Humans and human civilization tends to concentrate on coastal areas.

Hancock's assertion that an ancient civilization with advanced technologies may have some merit. As a rule, only the most primitive methods of data storage (carved into stone or baked into mud bricks) survive the passage of hundreds of centuries.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it never hurts to acknowledge the possibilities.

 

[marshalt]

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt55/brewsben8/Evil/Stonecutters.jpg

 

[KingOrfeo]

There are some submerged structures off of India's western coast. Access to the site has been limited.

The end of the last ice age raised sea level by what, 200-300 feet? Humans and human civilization tends to concentrate on coastal areas.

Hancock's assertion that an ancient civilization with advanced technologies may have some merit. As a rule, only the most primitive methods of data storage (carved into stone or baked into mud bricks) survive the passage of hundreds of centuries.

I'm not saying I believe it, but it never hurts to acknowledge the possibilities.

What? Oh, of course there were high civilizations on Earth before the last Ice Age. But they were not human civilizations.

 

[KyleW]

this is a No Homer thread

 

[KingOrfeo]

this is a No Homer thread

But can't it be a Hummer thread?! Please?!

 

[KyleW]

But can't it be a Hummer thread?! Please?!

no, we get a tax write off if this thread remains green

 

[1sickbastard]

What? Oh, of course there were high civilizations on Earth before the last Ice Age. But they were not human civilizations.

Sorry, but a link to a Lovecraft novel does not constitute empirical evidence.

One thing I respect Hancock for is that he doesn't ascribe his theory of prehistoric high civilizations to aliens or preternatural beings.

'Modern' humans have existed for (according to the current model of a number of anthropological theories) at least a thousand centuries. It took about a hundred and fifty centuries for our current civilization to develop.

 

[Sean Renaud]

^^^^ You base this math on. . .

 

[KingOrfeo]

^^^^ You base this math on. . .

150 centuries = 1,500 years. Human civilization -- defined as a social-and-technological condition of a culture/society characterized by agriculture, cities, some form of writing, and complex social/political organization -- is much older than that. In China it goes back at least 4,000 years even if you discount legends.

But, probably not much older than that. I very much doubt there was such a thing anywhere on Earth before or during the last glacial period (110,000 to 10,000 years ago).

Not "the last Ice Age," BTW -- we're still in an ice age, the Quaternary Glaciation, it encompasses all of human history and probably all of human prehistory; what we're in now is called an "interglacial period" within an ice age. Humanity is not adapted to anything warmer -- we could adapt, but, biologically, it would take millennia. So, 'ware anthropogenic climate change. See Retreat of glaciers since 1850. That's way too fast for comfort.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Lancecastor]

Personally I agree that advanced civilizations have come and gone

Don't be sad; maybe he'll call you tonite.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It goes back even further here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RH4VkMT8Tc

Well, it does not necessarily take a civilization to build that sort of thing. No civilized/citified people built Stonehenge. Gobekli Tepi is a neolithic site -- "neolithic" describes the civilization of the Aztecs, who were technologically well ahead of whoever built that.

Göbekli Tepe Turkish: [ɡøbe̞kli te̞pɛ][2] ("Potbelly Hill"[3]) is a Neolithic hilltop sanctuary erected at the top of a mountain ridge in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of Turkey, some 15 kilometers (9 mi) northeast of the town of Şanlıurfa (formerly Urfa / Edessa). It is the oldest known human-made religious structure.[1][4] The site was most likely erected by hunter-gatherers in the 10th millennium BCE and has been under excavation since 1994 by German and Turkish archaeologists.[5] Together with Nevalı Çori, it has revolutionized understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.[6]

Hunter-gathers can sometimes do much more than we generally give them credit for, but civilized they are not.

 

[unregistered]

 

[Lancecastor]

Maybe he'll report your grid coordinates so we can call down a nice big sheaf of artillery right on top of them, pudgy midget.

Admit it...you just want more anal probing.

 

[JohnnySavage]

150 centuries = 1,500 years. Human civilization -- defined as a social-and-technological condition of a culture/society characterized by agriculture, cities, some form of writing, and complex social/political organization -- is much older than that. In China it goes back at least 4,000 years even if you discount legends.

But, probably not much older than that. I very much doubt there was such a thing anywhere on Earth before or during the last glacial period (110,000 to 10,000 years ago).

Not "the last Ice Age," BTW -- we're still in an ice age, the Quaternary Glaciation, it encompasses all of human history and probably all of human prehistory; what we're in now is called an "interglacial period" within an ice age. Humanity is not adapted to anything warmer -- we could adapt, but, biologically, it would take millennia. So, 'ware anthropogenic climate change. See Retreat of glaciers since 1850. That's way too fast for comfort.

150 centuries = 15,000 years.

 

[KingOrfeo]

150 centuries = 15,000 years.

Oh, yes, sorry. Well, human civilization ain't that old! Less than 50 centuries, tops!

 

[unregistered]

 

[KingOrfeo]

You mean, that's what we think at the present.

If I were searching for something older, I look around the continental shelfs, places now submerged that might have been dry coastland before the glaciers retreated. There are indeed some lost lands. (There are no lost continents, unless you count the Kurguelen Plateau and Zealandia, not really continent-sized if Australia sets the lower limit, and asubmerged long before humans emerged. Plate tectonics maps the entire history of the continents since Pangaea.) But, I wouldn't look with much hope. The glaciers retreated, and the coasts flooded, naturally, which means slowly. Any coastal civilization would have had plenty of time to move uphill a bit, and almost certainly -- almost -- would have left some trace in the archaeological/historical record.

 

[Lancecastor]

You mean, that's what we think at the present.

This is quite a thorough investigation of ancient stone-cutting.

(that is, if you've never owned or watched a "television")

It does show that Vetteman believes in aliens (and no doubt is craving fresh probing), so it's not a complete loss as a thread, I suppose.

What's on TV tonite?....check and you'll see Tomorrow's VetteThreads...today!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Lost lands:

Lost lands can be continents, islands or other regions supposedly existing during prehistory, having since disappeared as a result of catastrophic geological phenomena or slowly rising sea levels since the end of the last Ice Age. Lost lands, where they existed, are supposed to have subsided into the sea, leaving behind only a few traces or legends. The term can also be extended to mythological lands generally, to underground civilizations, or even to whole planets.

The classification of lost lands as continents, islands, or other regions is in some cases subjective; for example, Atlantis is variously described as either a "lost island" or a "lost continent". Lost land theories may originate in mythology or philosophy, or in scholarly or scientific theories, such as catastrophic theories of geology.

Lost continents

As the study "Lost Continents" by L. Sprague de Camp seeks to show, many modern writers speculate about ancient civilizations that dwelled on continents now deluged under sea level. According to de Camp, there is no real scientific evidence for any lost continents whatsoever.

The most famous lost continent is Atlantis. Atlantis, like Hyperborea and Thule, is ultimately derived from ancient Greek geographic speculation.

The name of hypothetical vanished continent Mu originated from the first attempted translation of the Madrid Codex, one of only four remaining Maya codices.

Something similar seems to have happened upon the discovery of the Sanskrit literature by Europeans. Louis Jacolliot claimed to have learned from this literature about a sunken continent called Rutas. This in turn seems to have influenced Madame Blavatsky and her speculations about Lemuria. Speculations about Kumari Kandam also seem to be linked to this field. The name Lemuria originated from the hypothesis about a land bridge between India and South Africa.

Other lost lands

In addition to these myths about lost continents there also are various regional legends about lost lands; see e.g. Lyonesse, Cantref Gwaelod (also known as Lowland Hundred), or the legend about Lomea, located at the Goodwin Sands. Unlike the lost continents mentioned above, whose location has been a matter of speculation, these lost lands are associated with specified places.

It is likely that until relatively recent times the Isles of Scilly, with which Lyonesse is often associated, were much larger, many of them being joined into a single island named Ennor. Rising sea levels flooded the central plain around 400–500 AD, forming the current islands.

Submerged lands

Although the existence of lost continents in the above sense is mythical, there are some places on earth that were once dry land but are now submerged under the sea. Approximately listed by size, these are:
* Sundaland, the now submerged Sunda Shelf.
* Zealandia, a continent that is now 93% submerged under the Pacific Ocean.
* Kerguelen Plateau, a submerged micro-continent which is now 1–2 km below sea level.
* Beringia, connecting Asia and North America.
* Doggerland, the bed of the North Sea, inundated by rising sea level during the Holocene.
* The bed of the Persian Gulf.
* A large island in the Mediterranean Sea, of which the Maltese Islands are the only parts not now submerged.
* Maui Nui, once a large island of the Hawaii archipelago; several major islands represent residual high ground of Maui Nui.
* Verdronken Land van Reimerswaal, most of this region in The Netherlands vanished in a storm in 1532; the town of Reimerswaal survived as an island into the 17th century; the last bits of land vanished in the early 19th century.
* Strand, an island off the German coast with the town Rungholt, eroded away by storm surges before being washed away by a final flood in 1634.
* Jordsand, once an island off the Danish coast, eroded away by storm surges before being washed away by a final flood between 1998 and 1999.
* Ferdinandea, submerged volcanic island which has appeared at least four times in the past.
* Sarah Ann Island, now submerged guano island, located just north of the equator. Vanished between 1917 and 1932.

Mythological lands

* Plato's Atlantis described in Timaeus and Critias Avalon
* Buyan, an island with the ability to appear and disappear in Russian mythology
* Shambhala
* Shangri-La, a fictitious valley in Tibet the idea of which may have been inspired by the myth of Shambhala
* Quivira and Cibola, also known as the Seven Cities of Gold. These were suspected somewhere in America by the Conquistadors.
* El Dorado, mythic city of gold.
* Atlantis
* Lemuria (continent)
* Mu (lost continent)
* Ys; a mythical city built on the coast of Brittany, and later swallowed by the ocean. Most versions of the legend place the city in the Baie de Douarnenez.
* Cantre'r Gwaelod is the legendary ancient sunken realm said to have occupied a tract of fertile land lying between Ramsey Island and Bardsey Island in what is now Cardigan Bay to the west of Wales.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Civilization:

Civilization (or civilisation) is a sometimes controversial term that has been used in several related ways. Primarily, the term has been used to refer to the material and instrumental side of human cultures that are complex in terms of technology, science, and division of labor. Such civilizations are generally hierarchical and urbanized. In a classical context, people were called "civilized" to set them apart from barbarians, savages, and primitive peoples while in a modern-day context, "civilized peoples" have been contrasted with indigenous peoples or tribal societies.

There is a tendency to use the term in a less strict way, to mean approximately the same thing as "culture" and therefore, the term can more broadly refer to any important and clearly defined human society.[1] Still, even when used in this second sense, the word is often restricted to apply only to societies that have attained a particular level of advancement—especially the founding of cities.

The level of advancement of a civilization is often measured by its progress in agriculture, long-distance trade, occupational specialization, a special governing class, and urbanism. Aside from these core elements, a civilization is often marked by any combination of a number of secondary elements, including a developed transportation system, writing, standardized measurement, currency, contractual and tort-based legal systems, characteristic art and architecture, mathematics, enhanced scientific understanding, metallurgy, political structures, and organized religion.

<snip>

The process of sedentarization is first thought to have occurred around 12,000 BCE in the Levant region of southwest Asia though other regions around the world soon followed. The emergence of civilization is generally associated with the Neolithic, or Agricultural Revolution, which occurred in various locations between 8,000 and 5,000 BCE, specifically in southwestern/southern Asia, northern/central Africa and Central America.[35] This revolution marked the beginning of stable agriculture and animal domestication which enabled economies and cities to develop.

 

[eyer]

Too friggin' funny...

...2 or 3 significant kiloton, low burst altitude EMPs are all it would take to show the deluded what a charade American "civilization" truly is.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Too friggin' funny...

...2 or 3 significant kiloton, low burst altitude EMPs are all it would take to show the deluded what a charade American "civilization" truly is.

Oh, we might have to go back to 19th-Century/steampunk tech -- but that's still pretty high civilization by historical standards. So was the 18th, and we would not have to go back to 18th-Century/clockpunk tech. Barring the intervention of Alien Space Bats.

 

[Lancecastor]

Didn't this start on 4Chan as a way to get ancient alien lovers to cut themselves?