An interesting thought (perhaps)

[Emeraldtryst]

I was having the most interesting discussion with a friend of mine that holds some very deep Christian beliefs. I'll just give a short rundown and see if anyone else some thoughts on this.

We were talking about Satan and how he came into being. Actually Lucifer was supposed to be God's original perfect creation...If I were an infallible God and I decided to make my vision of a perfect creation, would I create it to rebel against me?

Moving on...we all know that throught time history was written by the victorious in each conflict. Who's to say that God didn't create a creature that knew that to overthrow him was his own desire?


Any thoughts? Or does anyone actually care? I hope I'm not preaching here.

 

[Never]

I see - Lucifer just has an Odipice (knows I mangled the world horribly) complex.

 

[Emeraldtryst]

Well....angels are SUPPOSED to be sexless...

That could mean that they just don't have a preference in regards to gender.

 

[Never]

Where does it say that angels are sexless?
How could a sexless angel knock up Mary?

 

[Emeraldtryst]

Fah! I'm betting my money that Mary just needed an excuse for her unexpected pregnancy. What family wouldn't believe: "I swear it must have been God!!"

 

[Bob Peale]

The whole agel/sexless thing is inconclusive. Most people quote Matthew 22:30 as support:

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven

Doesn't really talk about lack of sexual organs.

 

[juicylips]

The whole agel/sexless thing is inconclusive. Most people quote Matthew 22:30 as support:

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven

Doesn't really talk about lack of sexual organs.

I am pretty sure in the Bible that all of the angels are supposedly male, at least they have male names. There must be a reason for that. Maybe they do have sexual organs.

One more thing, uh.. Bob you really need to ditch that av.. I have trouble thinking and typing s ra ht
t ig

Cassidy

 

[modest mouse]

My feeling....

If you remember that all religions are designed to explain things that are currently unexplainable, with the side benefit(which comes once established) that it keeps the masses in line. Once you realize this fact, all the stories make sense, no matter what the story/explanation is, it can only be judged on its furthuring the agenda, not its merit.

Just a thought, from someone with obvious issues with organized religion

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Where does it say that angels are sexless?

Ditto. There is actually very little info about angels in the Bible, although there are inferences that in a pre-history time the Angels did impregnate women and Giants were the result, but that is very ambiguous.

How could a sexless angel knock up Mary?

Just were in the Bible does it say that an Angel got mary pregnant?

In Matthew, the Bible says "she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit", and in Luke, the Bible says "the Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy offspring shall be called the Son of God".

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: My feeling....

If you remember that all religions are designed to explain things that are currently unexplainable, with the side benefit(which comes once established) that it keeps the masses in line. Once you realize this fact, all the stories make sense, no matter what the story/explanation is, it can only be judged on its furthuring the agenda, not its merit.

Just a thought, from someone with obvious issues with organized religion

Actually, while some religions are "designed", research into epilepsy has indicated that there are portions and organization to the brain that supports the formation of general religious thought and belief. It is believed that this might have had some evolutionary purpose in keeping society together and well running.

Some people who have certain types of epileptic attacks suddenly have religious epiphanies, etc. where almost everything in the world takes on religious meaning and everything suddenly "makes sense".

So, religions are not always some man made conspiracy to control the masses - although many or all have been used for that purpose, including Christianity.

 

[modest mouse]

i wouldnt so much as call religions a conspiracy.

As far as portions of the brain being given over to religious thoughts, seems like a simple fact of evolution to me. A predeliction towards group behaviour aids in survival, thus those genes are passed.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

Re: i wouldnt so much as call religions a conspiracy.

As far as portions of the brain being given over to religious thoughts, seems like a simple fact of evolution to me. A predeliction towards group behaviour aids in survival, thus those genes are passed.

Possibly, but then why don't other primates, or other animals for that matter, have religion? They all social and group behavior. Is religion only for highly evolved creatures? Or only humans?

As for your statement

"Once you realize this fact, all the stories make sense, no matter what the story/explanation is, it can only be judged on its furthuring the agenda, not its merit."

I have a question as to what you mean by that.

Do you that the merit of the story as an explanation of the way the world is, or the inherent merits of the beliefs/tenets of the religion?

Either way, most things, philosophies and religions included, can be judged on various levels and from various points of view, not just whether they are misused, misconstrued or even false. It is hardly the fault of fundamental Christian belief that some who profess to speak in its name, misuse it to their own ends - especially when those ends are clearly in conflict with the basic tenets.

Laying the blame at the foot of religion is akin to saying, "the devil made me do it", only this time instead saying "religion or God made me do it". Whether God or Satan exists or not, people do things of their own volition, and they are responsible for those actions.

 

[Emeraldtryst]

I don't think we give enough credit to other animals for the intelligence that they do have. Who's to say that more intelligent animals don't have some sort of religious system. It's not as if we could seriously ask them what their views on Christianity were, but I really wonder why an evolutionary trait of that kind of important would have bred into only one species.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I don't think we give enough credit to other animals for the intelligence that they do have. Who's to say that more intelligent animals don't have some sort of religious system. It's not as if we could seriously ask them what their views on Christianity were, but I really wonder why an evolutionary trait of that kind of important would have bred into only one species.

It is possible but I doubt it as there is no evidence. Other species' communications just are not sophisticated enough to really support the social structure necessary for religion, which in turn would cause evolution to select for the brain structures similar to human religiousity (if any of that makes sense).

I think some animals have intelligence that approaches human intelligence (dolphins, whales), but they don't have the communication or social complexity of humans. Maybe someday they will, but I think until they find some method of written communication that is unlikey, and I do see them developing that either (fins are just not conducive to writing) without human aid.

 

[Emeraldtryst]

I'm not certain I completely agree with that. Animals also have ways of communication that are out of the scope of human understanding. A good example would be how birds can stay in a pefect V while flying.

It was proposed that humans might have actually been able to use similar methods of cummunication...sort like a type of ESP that we seem to have bred out of our blood in present day. Some support here might be that ancient people living in the British Isles managed to build Stonehenge on an electromagnetic anomaly in the earth.

I'm really off on a rant here, but I'm sure some of this made snese before I decided to committ it to virtual paper.

 

[Phoenyx]

I was having the most interesting discussion with a friend of mine that holds some very deep Christian beliefs. I'll just give a short rundown and see if anyone else some thoughts on this.

We were talking about Satan and how he came into being. Actually Lucifer was supposed to be God's original perfect creation...If I were an infallible God and I decided to make my vision of a perfect creation, would I create it to rebel against me?

Moving on...we all know that throught time history was written by the victorious in each conflict. Who's to say that God didn't create a creature that knew that to overthrow him was his own desire?


Any thoughts? Or does anyone actually care? I hope I'm not preaching here.

Actually As I learned Lucifer was not the riginal creaton of God but Gods Head angel, in essence his right hand man.
He thought he was so important and perfect that he rebeld againt God and witht some other engels tried to take over but was cast out of heaven and into what is now hell. He fears God becuase he knows he cannot beat him and tries to corrupt humans since We are made in Gods image. HE figures since we are in Gods image if he can screw us up he can get to God through us.

 

[Shy Tall Guy]

I'm not certain I completely agree with that. Animals also have ways of communication that are out of the scope of human understanding. A good example would be how birds can stay in a pefect V while flying.

While I would agree there are many forms of animal communication we don't yet understand, this is hardly an argument for anything more than not to absolutely rule out the remote possibility that non-human animals could have communication sophisticated enough to have a religion. Just the same, it is hardly evidence to support the probability - it is just wild speculation with no real supporting evidence.

It was proposed that humans might have actually been able to use similar methods of cummunication...sort like a type of ESP that we seem to have bred out of our blood in present day. Some support here might be that ancient people living in the British Isles managed to build Stonehenge on an electromagnetic anomaly in the earth.

Again, just speculation - the kind that you hear Leonard Nimoy narration in those shows about ancient religions, the Bermuda Triangle and aliens/UFOs.

Do you know how many magnetic anomalies there are around the world - especially in the northern Atlantic?

Also, try "magnetic" instead of "electromagnetic"; the former is a fairly natural phenomenon, while the latter is magnetism generated by an electric current, usually man made, which collapses when the electric current ceases.

Sorry I am in a very dismissive mood today.