An editor really does make a difference

[cahab]

The "you" is your system, not you personally. You had said this was the system you were given. But it also is a little (no, a lot) extreme to be calling them assholes, isn't it, when they also are working with the systems they are given to work with--with the difference being that the systems they are working with are the standard and yours aren't? If they can only afford one system, why are they assholes for buying the standard system? Where's the difference between them and you that makes them assholes?

I know the Internet is where people come to rant and to have people agree with them simply because they are all posting to the same chat board, but I think calling them assholes for being in the same bind you are--except more up-to-date in what they have--is a little unreasonable and sort of useless, as the world isn't going to volunteer to revolve around you. (And, no, it doesn't revolve around me either.)

In all you've posted on this thread you've just seemed to be blaming the problems you have on everyone else--with, surprise, no effect on your problem. *Shrug*

Guess when your problems posted here are going to be fixed.

Sorry, I was reading this convo and giving you the benefit of the doubt up to here. Word is not a standard, as has been pointed out many times on here already. It changes so much with each generation it often can't even open its own files.

Sending a Word file to Word user is no guarantee of compatibility. There ARE standards across the computing world; HTML, Rich text, JPEG, even Acrobat, but Word is not one of them.

For anyone using any given version of Word to assume someone else will be able to open their file is arrogance, plain and simple, however you slice it, and anyone who continues to send you Word files despite having been told you can't open them

IS

AN

ASSHOLE.

/rant

 

[sr71plt]

Sorry, I was reading this convo and giving you the benefit of the doubt up to here. Word is not a standard, as has been pointed out many times on here already. It changes so much with each generation it often can't even open its own files.

Sending a Word file to Word user is no guarantee of compatibility. There ARE standards across the computing world; HTML, Rich text, JPEG, even Acrobat, but Word is not one of them.

For anyone using any given version of Word to assume someone else will be able to open their file is arrogance, plain and simple, however you slice it, and anyone who continues to send you Word files despite having been told you can't open them

IS

AN

ASSHOLE.

/rant

Word is standard for passing manuscripts back and forth in the publishing world, which is the topic of this thread. It's not the only program accommodated, but it is the standard--and accommodating the nonstandard takes effort and, sometimes ingenuity, and sometimes at the cost of mistakes getting imbedded in the manuscript. When one of the parties doesn't have Word, they need to communicate up front about what they are going to do about it to achieve connectivity (as I've posted several times).

And when the two parties don't have connectivity because they have two different systems' capability, this isn't going to be fixed just by standing there and calling each other assholes and expecting the other party to make all of the adjustments.

OK I get the point that you all just want to rant at "the other guy" here. Sorry, I took this thread as one where the posters might want to solve a problem and are willing to work at it rather than just ranting and calling others assholes.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Word is standard for passing manuscripts back and forth in the publishing world, which is the topic of this thread. It's not the only program accommodated, but it is the standard--and accommodating the nonstandard takes effort and, sometimes ingenuity, and sometimes at the cost of mistakes getting imbedded in the manuscript. When one of the parties doesn't have Word, they need to communicate up front about what they are going to do about it to achieve connectivity (as I've posted several times).

And when the two parties don't have connectivity because they have two different systems' capability, this isn't going to be fixed just by standing there and calling each other assholes and expecting the other party to make all of the adjustments.

OK I get the point that you all just want to rant at "the other guy" here. Sorry, I took this thread as one where the posters might want to solve a problem and are willing to work at it rather than just ranting and calling others assholes.

I think sr7pit, that people are objecting to you calling them assholes. This might not be your intention, but it is the effect.

Your conversational sentences are missing a number of important modifiers that would get the secondary message across-- that you are honestly hoping to clarify something, and might have some useful suggestions-- and that you are on "our side" so to speak.

 

[sr71plt]

I think sr7pit, that people are objecting to you calling them assholes. This might not be your intention, but it is the effect.

Your conversational sentences are missing a number of important modifiers that would get the secondary message across-- that you are honestly hoping to clarify something, and might have some useful suggestions-- and that you are on "our side" so to speak.

No, I haven't called anyone here an asshole (but thanks for trying to help unravel this). I have objected to them assuming that others are assholes because they won't accommodate their stubborn determination to stand in place until someone else solves their problem for them.

Every scenario that cantdog introduces here is stagnant--so whatever he did/does about it, including calling them assholes, worked a charm, didn't it?

No worries, though. They can stew about it as they wish (Can't tell me what's "standard" in the publishing industry, though)

 

[Stella_Omega]

No, I haven't called anyone here an asshole (but thanks for trying to help unravel this). I have objected to them assuming that others are assholes because they won't accommodate their stubborn determination to stand in place until someone else solves their problem for them.

Every scenario that cantdog introduces here is stagnant--so whatever he did/does about it, including calling them assholes, worked a charm, didn't it?

No worries, though. They can stew about it as they wish (Can't tell me what's "standard" in the publishing industry, though)

Okay, dude. You know all about the publishing industry, no problem. Knowing how to get advice across-- little bit problem.

This is a social board, not a technical one.

 

[sr71plt]

Okay, dude. You know all about the publishing industry, no problem. Knowing how to get advice across-- little bit problem.

This is a social board, not a technical one.

Seems more like an antisocial board to me. All these angry people.

 

[cloudy]

Seems more like an antisocial board to me. All these angry people.

As I've told you over and over again: when more than a few people have a problem with you, the common denominator is you.

I won't call you an asshole, but ffs, you're thick-headed as hell.

 

[sr71plt]

As I've told you over and over again: when more than a few people have a problem with you, the common denominator is you.

I won't call you an asshole, but ffs, you're thick-headed as hell.

Ahh, yet another stalking troll who is obsessed with me--and who (place giggle here) declares she has me on "ignore."

Nice spear.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ahh, yet another stalking troll who is obsessed with me--and who (place giggle here) declares she has me on "ignore."

Nice spear.

All these angry people!

 

[sr71plt]

All these angry people!

Oh, I quite agree (no matter what the intent of your posting it). Quite a study for an essay here (for someone with the patience and time and greater insight than I have). That the area designated for authors to hang out on a forum on erotica covers so little to do with erotica and so much to do with unrepressed roiling anger and hatred on all things nonerotic with a lacing of searching for a false sense of adequacy and meaningfullness with hugs and kisses "let me be your neighbor (and, together, let's spike that poster over there)" activity. There certainly must be a close relationship between erotica and all this, or it wouldn't exist here.

 

[cahab]

Word is standard for passing manuscripts back and forth in the publishing world, which is the topic of this thread. It's not the only program accommodated, but it is the standard--and accommodating the nonstandard takes effort and, sometimes ingenuity, and sometimes at the cost of mistakes getting imbedded in the manuscript. When one of the parties doesn't have Word, they need to communicate up front about what they are going to do about it to achieve connectivity (as I've posted several times).

And when the two parties don't have connectivity because they have two different systems' capability, this isn't going to be fixed just by standing there and calling each other assholes and expecting the other party to make all of the adjustments.

OK I get the point that you all just want to rant at "the other guy" here. Sorry, I took this thread as one where the posters might want to solve a problem and are willing to work at it rather than just ranting and calling others assholes.

OK everyone give this up. This is to my count the third time you have replied to an answer by picking up on one sentence without addressing the fundamantal point contained within; in my post this was the point that word isn't forwards and, in many cases, even backwards compatible. It cannot therefore claim to be a 'standard' even if it is the program of choice for word processor for 99% of the world. Which it isn't. You also ignore the other issue here of the editor being told not to use Word in the first place. I can conceive of 3 possible reasons why you would do this:

1) You are a politician and therefore used to doing this sort of thing, and do it by habit.

2) You cannot read too well, in which case engaging in an argument about word processing would be moot at best.

3) You are a troll and deliberately winding people up at this stage.

Whichever it is I suggest we leave him to it. people like this spring up from time to time and never back down on the most mealy mouthed of points.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

 

[Stella_Omega]

heh, since you seem sincere...

Are you like this in real life as well?

Look at it this way. It's a hangout. This forum has been pretty stable since '02 or earlier, I don't know. Some of us have come here long enough that they consider it their home forum. Regardless of what you think about that, it's the generally accepted notion around here, and most everybody will deal with you according to that precept. You won't be able to change it.

I've known Cloudy, for instance, for nearly three years now. We've chatted, and co-written. I have to laugh when you complain that she's "stalking" you-- when in a certain sense, you just sat down on the chair right next to her.

If you want to be accepted into any group, you have to do a little conforming to them-- they are not going to conform to you. They were here first.

 

[cloudy]

heh, since you seem sincere...

Are you like this in real life as well?

Look at it this way. It's a hangout. This forum has been pretty stable since '02 or earlier, I don't know. Some of us have come here long enough that they consider it their home forum. Regardless of what you think about that, it's the generally accepted notion around here, and most everybody will deal with you according to that precept. You won't be able to change it.

I've known Cloudy, for instance, for nearly three years now. We've chatted, and co-written. I have to laugh when you complain that she's "stalking" you-- when in a certain sense, you just sat down on the chair right next to her.

If you want to be accepted into any group, you have to do a little conforming to them-- they are not going to conform to you. They were here first.

Indeed.

Bless his little heart. If it helps his self-esteem and his ego to think that I"m "stalking" him, then he can.

Poor sod.

 

[sr71plt]

OK everyone give this up. This is to my count the third time you have replied to an answer by picking up on one sentence without addressing the fundamantal point contained within; in my post this was the point that word isn't forwards and, in many cases, even backwards compatible. It cannot therefore claim to be a 'standard' even if it is the program of choice for word processor for 99% of the world. Which it isn't. You also ignore the other issue here of the editor being told not to use Word in the first place. I can conceive of 3 possible reasons why you would do this:

1) You are a politician and therefore used to doing this sort of thing, and do it by habit.

2) You cannot read too well, in which case engaging in an argument about word processing would be moot at best.

3) You are a troll and deliberately winding people up at this stage.

Whichever it is I suggest we leave him to it. people like this spring up from time to time and never back down on the most mealy mouthed of points.

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL

Or I don't disagree with that part at all, or I didn't see it as relevant to the the main thread running through the discussion and don't want to go off on a tangent, or I didn't understand what it was trying to tell me and don't want to go off on a tangent.

I didn't respond to all that you previously posted, because I thought the topic and what I was posting was about the publishing industry (this started on an editor showing edits on a manuscript) and that what you were posting wasn't. And I saw no reason to fight over something I thought was irrelevant to the point. You were saying Word isn't standard and I know it is for the publishing industry (being the "standard" doesn't mean being the only one anyone tries to use)--and I did address that. So everything you said from there about Word wasn't relevant, I thought/think, to the publishing industry and doesn't need to be addressed. (And here we off off on a tangent argument that detracts from the central issue--which is what I was trying to stick to).

What you see as me picking out one sentence to respond to is me trying to stay on the central issues rasied by the thread. A common occurrence in the spinning out of a thread is to tumble off on all sorts of tangents. I don't feel the need to go off on all these tangents when what interests me in the thread is the central issue.

Sorry that this bothers you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Actually, the original original topic-- had nothing to do with the publishing industry at all, but was about how the interpersonal interaction between a writer and an editor can feed the soul like manna from heaven. This forum is threadjack central...

 

[sr71plt]

heh, since you seem sincere...

Are you like this in real life as well?

Oh, god, I hope none of us are like what we are here in real life.

Look at it this way. It's a hangout. This forum has been pretty stable since '02 or earlier, I don't know. Some of us have come here long enough that they consider it their home forum. Regardless of what you think about that, it's the generally accepted notion around here, and most everybody will deal with you according to that precept. You won't be able to change it.

Yes, I get the "we are regulars and you are not" a lot here. Sorry, I've been busy actually posting stories to what is a story site.

I've known Cloudy, for instance, for nearly three years now. We've chatted, and co-written. I have to laugh when you complain that she's "stalking" you-- when in a certain sense, you just sat down on the chair right next to her.

Funny, I didn't see her on this thread at all until she dropped in to pursue her "let's all get him" agenda.

If you want to be accepted into any group, you have to do a little conforming to them-- they are not going to conform to you. They were here first.

Acceptance requires effort on both sides--and is a bit overrated anyway. I contribute heavily to the bread and butter of Lit.--its stories. And when I see an interesting discussion on Lit., I've paid my dues to Lit. to join in on the discussion. When this happens it contributes a bit--usually just a bit and a begrudged and fought-against bit--to the stagnation of chat room inbreeding.

I see no need to drag this out into another mob violence scene--so if it becomes that, you all will have to continue on without me.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Oh, god, I hope none of us are like what we are here in real life.

why not be more like the person you really are-- if you are considerate in real life, why not be the same online in a social forum? [quoteYes, I get the "we are regulars and you are not" a lot here. Sorry, I've been busy actually posting stories to what is a story site.[/quote]As have many of us.

It's not that you are not a regular-- it's that you complain and bitch about the regulars and then act hurt and surprised when they treat you like a bitchy stranger.

Funny, I didn't see her on this thread at all until she dropped in to pursue her "let's all get him" agenda.

You must have pissed her off in some other thread, eh? Forums tend to be treated as wholes-- what happens in one thread doesn't stay in that one thread.

Acceptance requires effort on both sides--and is a bit overrated anyway. I contribute heavily to the bread and butter of Lit.--its stories. And when I see an interesting discussion on Lit., I've paid my dues to Lit. to join in on the discussion. When this happens it contributes a bit--usually just a bit and a begrudged and fought-against bit--to the stagnation of chat room inbreeding.

Great words to make friends by!

If you hold the group in such contempt-- don't complain. It shouldn't matter much to you anyway, if we are such inbred worms. But your talents will be better appreciated elsewhere, don't you think?

There are many many authors who never show up in the forums at all.

I see no need to drag this out into another mob violence scene--so if it becomes that, you all will have to continue on without me.

Well, politely speaking, that would be your choice, wouldn't it?

 

[sr71plt]

why not be more like the person you really are

Oh, god no. I'm a real bastard in real life. I edit books now and have all of these authorities sitting around telling me the best way to spell things and such--and I've already tried out being a real editor, giving helpful, evidenced responses, on the EF board and raised a nest of embedded snakes there.

I think my posting persona should be OK here. I mean we have posters foaming at the mouth and moderators going around and attacking people and using gutter talk in doing so and violating the rules of the forum--I think I'm pretty tame stacked up against that. I rarely if ever curse here. Even the accusation of calling anyone an "asshole" on this thread arises from readers not reading--I was objecting others using the word in extremis.

It's not that you are not a regular-- it's that you complain and bitch about the regulars and then act hurt and surprised when they treat you like a bitchy stranger.

Oh, I feel all warm and fuzzy. Can I quote you on the "It's not that you are not a regular"? I shall, of course. That will raise some hackles among some here. That reaction would be fun to watch.

A little hurt, perhaps, yes, genuinely yes. But certainly not suprised. I've looked in here a time or two over the past year while I was busy feeding stories into the site, and there was no surprise at all in what I saw.

And on "bitchy." Bitchy is advertised proudly on a good third of the poster signoffs on this forum. I didn't realize that was a bad thing here.

That leaves us with the "stranger" aspect, doesn't it. Yes, that would be the crux of the matter, wouldn't it?

Doesn't mean at all, though, that I don't have the right to post here as well--specially when it goes back to my being a veritable teddy bear in posting when set up against some of the real bears here.

You must have pissed her off in some other thread, eh? Forums tend to be treated as wholes-- what happens in one thread doesn't stay in that one thread. Great words to make friends by!

Oh, yes, quite right. And I was delighted to do it. She and a few other "regulars" were beating up on a newbie (as some of the "regulars" here delight in doing) on a thread about rejected stories, and, since I had the grandkids for the week and couldn't thus write stories and was just dipping into the forum for amusement, I decided that someone should give the newbie some relief. Worked wonderfully, they turned away from him on me with that they were "regulars" and I wasn't mantra (and they certainly were regulars on the forum--ran off on the mouth incessantly, they did, often in telling others what they should do with stories--when between them they didn't have enough stories posted here to sneeze about, despite their many years of residence. Too busy being "regular" chatters and dispensers of wisdom. She's been part of a vigilantee group ever since. Two of her lot dropped in on my head unannounced on this thread alone--with nothing to say about the thread topic, just making another of those "let's all get him" passes.

If you hold the group in such contempt-- don't complain. It shouldn't matter much to you anyway, if we are such inbred worms. But your talents will be better appreciated elsewhere, don't you think?

I don't hold the forum posting set in contempt. I do hold some of what you revealingly identify as "the group" in "contempt," but that doesn't mean I mind playing in their sandbox. It's some amusement to see the effect it has on them. Smug inbreeders need that sort of rattling, though, I think.

And on using talents elsewhere. I think I have quite enough time and interest (I won't refer to them as talents) to spread around to places that interest me. Time management and getting a lot done--and having broad interests--have always been something I've managed well.

There are many many authors who never show up in the forums at all.Well, politely speaking, that would be your choice, wouldn't it?

Quite right. On both counts. And I enjoy both posting stories and showing up on the forums. My choice.

After all of that tongue-in-cheeking, I do genuinely appreciate that you are at least discussing this and not just going all out-of-control wild banchee on me--which does happen here (and can be amusing in its own way).

Your suggestions are interesting, but I have no sign or expectation that those stalking me around the boards are ever going to give up on their agenda--they've had untold opportunities not to do it and they obsessively continue to do it. I'll just let that be their insides, not mine, that are rotting over the thought of me posting to the forum.

 

[knitedreams]

Actually, the original original topic-- had nothing to do with the publishing industry at all, but was about how the interpersonal interaction between a writer and an editor can feed the soul like manna from heaven. This forum is threadjack central...

I have no clue how my original thread got into publishing. I just wanted to shine love on my editor (who wishes to remain nameless) and maybe give hope to those who are having trouble finding an editor they work well with. My thread was intended as something positive. It's just turned into an argument about Word.

Thanks for pointing out my original topic, Stella.

 

[sr71plt]

Actually, the original original topic-- had nothing to do with the publishing industry at all, but was about how the interpersonal interaction between a writer and an editor can feed the soul like manna from heaven. This forum is threadjack central...

Irk. Just noticed this.

Excuse me? The interaction between a writer and an edtior is at the very center of the publishing industry. (By the way, it seems not to be realized by some, but this Web site and its content are part of the publishing industry).

Although you are basically right, the thread went off on a tangent from the original poster--off on complaints of another poster, and I followed off on that tangent. I probably should have just let him feel sorry for himself rather than trying to help him out to a constructive result.

 

[sr71plt]

I have no clue how my original thread got into publishing. I just wanted to shine love on my editor (who wishes to remain nameless) and maybe give hope to those who are having trouble finding an editor they work well with. My thread was intended as something positive. It's just turned into an argument about Word.

Thanks for pointing out my original topic, Stella.

Yep (although, as I noted, your original posting was about publishing). I apologize for my part in reacting to the ensuing complaints about editor-writer interaction rather than to your affirmation of it.

 

[knitedreams]

Yep (although, as I noted, your original posting was about publishing). I apologize for my part in reacting to the ensuing complaints about editor-writer interaction rather than to your affirmation of it.

That's okay. While I'm a little dismayed that my original objective was hidden, I'll just look on the positive side. This is the first time one of my threads has seen such action.

Plus, I got to know about you and the way you communicate. You're up front and to the point. I shouldn't take your advice as an insult, but as someone helping me along my way to becoming a good writer (or whatever the thread maybe).

One can always find a silver lining in an otherwise dull gray cloud.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Stella, your patience and perseverance is stellar...

Cant, if you ever need another editor, let me know. I'd be happy to look at your work and not use track changes or Word. I hate track changes.

Industry standard or not, it sucks. I refuse to use it, and have told my editors so (in the publishing world). They accommodate me, little diva that I am.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Stella, your patience and perseverance is stellar...

Cant, if you ever need another editor, let me know. I'd be happy to look at your work and not use track changes or Word. I hate track changes.

Industry standard or not, it sucks. I refuse to use it, and have told my editors so (in the publishing world). They accommodate me, little diva that I am.

Yeah, well-- when you flash your buns like that, how can they refuse you anything?

(we STILL need another tongue smiley here!)

 

[gauchecritic]

Are we back on topic yet?

I never realised what editing can do for writers when I first started posting, more than that I never realised nor expected that editing for others could improve my own writing or be such a time consuming yet equally fulfilling pastime.

The last thing I had edited used those pop up things that I didn't even know existed and I was all ready to fire off a 'thanks a lot' reply (which I didn't and wouldn't because I'm a nice guy) for just underlining where my editor thought there was something to fix.

But like a good editor does (in my opinion), a third of the comments, when I finally realised that the underlines hid actual edit dialogue, about a third were "I like the way you did this" etc. And the rest were extremely useful (I was quite surprised when I realised that I would probably use all the corrections/ideas.)

Out of the few stories that I've edited for others I've had only one 'well thanks for doing it anyway' and one 'you just don't understand what I was doing'. which went on to enumerate several instances which I had thought were technicalities rather than 'style' issues.

When I edit I tend to go into English Lit. Comprehension mode and I also have to stop myself from re-writing instead of editing.

Someone before mentioned an excellent piece of advice that I shall take to heart. When editing it's not my story.