An editor really does make a difference

[BlackShanglan]

Okay, so you've had your differences. Don't let them bother you. The guy actually has some sound advice now and then.

He absolutely and truly does.

 

[slyc_willie]

He absolutely and truly does.

Hell, more than I do, that's for damn sure.

Sarah, before you start thinking this has turned into a 'bash sarah' thread . . .



Remember Chicago

 

[Guest]

First off, thanks.

Secondly, let me be the Devil's advocate for a moment.

Sure, he's blunt, even acidic and obstruse in some of his posts. But I have to admit, I see a form of integrity there. And, yes, I have been watching 'that' thread in the SF in which sr71 has appeared to be on a certain egotist's side. But then he turns about with a challenge, that has thus far been ignored (for obvious reasons).

Okay, so you've had your differences. Don't let them bother you. The guy actually has some sound advice now and then.

That's not the issue, exactly. I made overtures of friendship after the initial nonsense - they were rebuffed. And in a solid in my face fashion.

I am tired of being called a troll by this person. I am sick of being referred to as one of the "club" who always "gangs up" on newbies in a negative fashion by this person. I'm tired of being accused of voting other stories down for my own gain by this person.

Have you seen some of his comments? Damn.

He's on ignore to stay.

Edited to add: Life's too short to put up with this, don't you think? I don't deserve his treatment of me and I refuse to accept it.

 

[cantdog]

He intends harm in every post to me because I dared disagree with him before.

I even tried to be pleasant a week ago and he shoved it back in my face.

He's an ass.

BUT - I adore your new AV.

Wo! Missed this one. Thank you very kindly! It's my face, gazing with love and pride upon Jelina. She's ten now, Jelina is, and she will be going to "the English school," her mother says. I got an e-mail today about it.

The Pastor who took us all down there forwarded me a story from Moises. Delene, Jelina's mom, came into Moises's office with a chicken, for him and his family. She asked Moises to send a letter to us about the kid and her other children.

Two of her kids have graduated from high school, which makes them the first in their family, and she is proud. Also she wanted to ask us for some money so that the younger ones could go to the English school, and the older to post-secondary schools. Moises dutifully sent the figures to Pastor Bob, and he sent them to us. We can handle the English school, but the college stuff is too steep.

We are telling Dr. Green and the PA-- many of the medical and church people who helped Jelina with her feet while she was here. Maybe we can cobble together some money for Delene.

There were photos, too. They were taken last season. Let me put them on photobucket and I'll post them.

 

[Guest]

Wo! Missed this one. Thank you very kindly! It's my face, gazing with love and pride upon Jelina. She's ten now, Jelina is, and she will be going to "the English school," her mother says. I got an e-mail today about it.

The Pastor who took us all down there forwarded me a story from Moises. Delene, Jelina's mom, came into Moises's office with a chicken, for him and his family. She asked Moises to send a letter to us about the kid and her other children.

Two of her kids have graduated from high school, which makes them the first in their family, and she is proud. Also she wanted to ask us for some money so that the younger ones could go to the English school, and the older to post-secondary schools. Moises dutifully sent the figures to Pastor Bob, and he sent them to us. We can handle the English school, but the college stuff is too steep.

We are telling Dr. Green and the PA-- many of the medical and church people who helped Jelina with her feet while she was here. Maybe we can cobble together some money for Delene.

There were photos, too. They were taken last season. Let me put them on photobucket and I'll post them.

Looking forward to seeing them.

I'm done. Meds overpowering me tonight.

Goodnight all.

 

[slyc_willie]

Looking forward to seeing them.

I'm done. Meds overpowering me tonight.

Goodnight all.

'Night, sweetie.

 

[cantdog]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/sysladobsis/LaRomana07208.jpg

That's Jelina and her sisters.

 

[cantdog]

Looking forward to seeing them.

I'm done. Meds overpowering me tonight.

Goodnight all.

Goodnight, kid. May the meds zonk you well and truly out! You need the sleep.

 

[knitedreams]

That's not the issue, exactly. I made overtures of friendship after the initial nonsense - they were rebuffed. And in a solid in my face fashion.

I am tired of being called a troll by this person. I am sick of being referred to as one of the "club" who always "gangs up" on newbies in a negative fashion by this person. I'm tired of being accused of voting other stories down for my own gain by this person.

Have you seen some of his comments? Damn.

He's on ignore to stay.

Edited to add: Life's too short to put up with this, don't you think? I don't deserve his treatment of me and I refuse to accept it.

If it's any consolation, I'm technically a newbie here and you didn't gang up on me in a negative fashion. Actually, everyone's been rather nice or just ignored me and that's okay too.

 

[cantdog]

If it's any consolation, I'm technically a newbie here and you didn't gang up on me in a negative fashion. Actually, everyone's been rather nice or just ignored me and that's okay too.

Actually, I think Shang read your new story. I started on it, myself. We're not so bad, usually.

 

[slyc_willie]

If it's any consolation, I'm technically a newbie here and you didn't gang up on me in a negative fashion. Actually, everyone's been rather nice or just ignored me and that's okay too.

For the most part, we're a nice bunch. Just, late at night, it seems, we get a little loose in the tongue.

Most of us think of one another as family . . . just not necessarily in the incestuous way

 

[sr71plt]

What I have done about it is, in the end, to put the idea of an editor out of my mind.

This is what I find concerning--not that I'm telling you you have to do anything other than what you want to do. But we all can benefit from someone following behind us and reviewing what we've written from the standpoint of the one receiving it--whether it's call another set of eyes or an editor. And it would be a shame that one or even a couple of disconnects on technical matters would end up putting the idea of this backstopping out of your mind.

But, no need to beat this further.

 

[cantdog]

This is what I find concerning--not that I'm telling you you have to do anything other than what you want to do. But we all can benefit from someone following behind us and reviewing what we've written from the standpoint of the one receiving it--whether it's call another set of eyes or an editor. And it would be a shame that one or even a couple of disconnects on technical matters would end up putting the idea of this backstopping out of your mind.

But, no need to beat this further.

Quite so. Thank you.

 

[knitedreams]

For the most part, we're a nice bunch. Just, late at night, it seems, we get a little loose in the tongue.

Most of us think of one another as family . . . just not necessarily in the incestuous way

I'll keep the "loose in the tongue" thing in mind, and I hope that I'll be considered as family one day as well. I'm not going anywhere. Most of these posts are very entertaining!

 

[knitedreams]

Actually, I think Shang read your new story. I started on it, myself. We're not so bad, usually.

Wonderful! I hope you like it!

 

[slyc_willie]

This is what I find concerning--not that I'm telling you you have to do anything other than what you want to do. But we all can benefit from someone following behind us and reviewing what we've written from the standpoint of the one receiving it--whether it's call another set of eyes or an editor. And it would be a shame that one or even a couple of disconnects on technical matters would end up putting the idea of this backstopping out of your mind.

But, no need to beat this further.

I had some pretty bad experiences with editors as well. One particular Stalinesque type springs to mind, but that was long ago. Since then, for better or worse, I've done my own cleaning. I understand that's not the best policy, and miss a few things now and then.

When I get to the point again where I'll try to get published, I *may* seek the services of an editor. Until then, my admittedly flawed ego will suffice.

 

[sr71plt]

I had some pretty bad experiences with editors as well. One particular Stalinesque type springs to mind, but that was long ago. Since then, for better or worse, I've done my own cleaning. I understand that's not the best policy, and miss a few things now and then.

When I get to the point again where I'll try to get published, I *may* seek the services of an editor. Until then, my admittedly flawed ego will suffice.

Truth be known I don't use an editor at all for my stories at Lit--although I have a coauthor for a separate line of stories, and he sometimes reads my individual stories before I post them. (But I do have an edit for all of my mainstream work--I have some really bad habits I can't beat out of my writing.) And there are errors in most all of the stories I post here. I think for here, however, there is some leeway in minor typoes and such that don't really intrude in the reader's understanding/enjoyment of the story. And for my first year here, I posted four stories a week, which would have been a real headache to get edited first.

If your writing is basically sound, I wouldn't suggest getting your own editor before submitting to the mainstream, either. (A couple of sharp friends, working for beer and nuts, might very well be sufficient.) The publishers are going to have it edited at their own expense whether or not you did (that's what they pay people like me to do), and if they can't see a winning manuscript through some minor errors, either they aren't good at their jobs or else it isn't really a winning manuscript, with or without minor technical errors.

 

[slyc_willie]

Truth be known I don't use an editor at all for my stories at Lit--although I have a coauthor for a separate line of stories, and he sometimes reads my individual stories before I post them. (But I do have an edit for all of my mainstream work--I have some really bad habits I can't beat out of my writing.) And there are errors in most all of the stories I post here. I think for here, however, there is some leeway in minor typoes and such that don't really intrude in the reader's understanding/enjoyment of the story. And for my first year here, I posted four stories a week, which would have been a real headache to get edited first.

If your writing is basically sound, I wouldn't suggest getting your own editor before submitting to the mainstream, either. (A couple of sharp friends, working for beer and nuts, might very well be sufficient.) The publishers are going to have it edited at their own expense whether or not you did (that's what they pay people like me to do), and if they can't see a winning manuscript through some minor errors, either they aren't good at their jobs or else it isn't really a winning manuscript, with or without minor technical errors.

I've been published, in short story form, eight times. twice in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. Those two singular edits almost put me off from submitting for publication for good. By the time 'Stalin' was done, I had a hard time reading the story as my own.

I like posting on Lit for the reasons you mentioned above. I know that most readers are willing to overlook a few typographical errors now and then, and I know that (perhaps egotistically) my writing is above par. Essentially, I don't worry about a few slip-ups here and there. The story's the thing, and that is what is appreciated.

 

[sr71plt]

I've been published, in short story form, eight times. twice in the Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction. Those two singular edits almost put me off from submitting for publication for good. By the time 'Stalin' was done, I had a hard time reading the story as my own.

I like posting on Lit for the reasons you mentioned above. I know that most readers are willing to overlook a few typographical errors now and then, and I know that (perhaps egotistically) my writing is above par. Essentially, I don't worry about a few slip-ups here and there. The story's the thing, and that is what is appreciated.

Unfortunately, I know a lot of editors like that. I was fortunate because my first twenty years with an editing responsibility was in passing direct translations of broadcast foreign leader speeches, foreign government statements, and battle reports, etc. on to government policymakers. The requirement there was to end up with something as close as possible to the English equivalent of exactly what was originally said. That pretty much beat the creative urge of editing out of me.

Then when I studied book editing in graduate school, the very first thing the first professor I saw said was, "Never forget that it's not your damn story, so keep your damn self out of it." That made us humble pretty quickly.

 

[slyc_willie]

Unfortunately, I know a lot of editors like that. I was fortunate because my first twenty years with an editing responsibility was in passing direct translations of broadcast foreign leader speeches, foreign government statements, and battle reports, etc. on to government policymakers. The requirement there was to end up with something as close as possible to the English equivalent of exactly what was originally said. That pretty much beat the creative urge of editing out of me.

Then when I studied book editing in graduate school, the very first thing the first professor I saw said was, "Never forget that it's not your damn story, so keep your damn self out of it." That made us humble pretty quickly.

I wish 'Stalin' had had your professor.

I'm not really put off anymore, about the idea of being published. I'm older, a little more experienced than I was then. But I sure as hell will be more picky in the future. Not being published won't put me in a worse boat; so I can feel comfortable saying 'go to hell.'

I do figure it'll happen, though. Just have that feeling.

 

[S-Des]

In the past, I've had editors, but they were always crappy. I could have done a better job editing my stories myself. Years later -- with a lot of yelling from passing readers -- I tried again to find an editor. I was lucky enough to hit the jackpot! My edited story was posted last night and the votes and comments are amazing!

So I've learned my lesson: having a great editor makes a whole world of difference. Now I think I'll celebrate my small, but meaningful, victory!

That sounds awfully familiar . . . I could write the same thing about my editor. I have worked with 3 editors who wanted no credit in the stories, and they all provided superb assistance. I want an editor who gets in my face and tells me when he thinks I've made a poor choice (whether in plot or dialogue). The help with grammar is fine, but the rest is so much more important. Joesephus gave me an incredible amount of help on my first story, which started out with a very low score and angry comments, but after his help (and several shouting matches), the final chapter received almost universal compliments and placed on the top list in it's category. Although I didn't go with all his suggestions (i.e. nagging), his help was invaluable. I always tell people to find an editor (or at least a pre-reader), just to make sure everything is worked out before you submit. There are a number of authors who I've never read a second story from because of my opinion of the first one I read from them.

My current editor did such a great job on my last submission that I received several public comments about how professional the story was, rather than how good it was.

 

[Guest]

If it's any consolation, I'm technically a newbie here and you didn't gang up on me in a negative fashion. Actually, everyone's been rather nice or just ignored me and that's okay too.

Bless you, KD.

And congratulations on your latest story!

 

[knitedreams]

Bless you, KD.

And congratulations on your latest story!

Thanks, sweet!

 

[rgraham666]

Ah, back to the stalking and trolling are we? (I continue to marvel how my stalkers track me down when they claim they have me on ignore.)

Could you maybe point out what was arrogant about anything I posted?

I saw the same thing as sarahh. There was a strong taste of 'there's only one way to write' in your post to cant. With a fillip of 'If you don't, suffer the consequences' at the end.

I don't have Word, and I don't intend to. I've been published with little problem. My editors just send me a pdf file and it has all the change tracks in it. I send files as rtf which is readable by a lot more programs than Word. Hell, Word often can't read Word files since Microsoft changes the format every couple of years. Like crack dealers they like to keep you addicted.

 

[Guest]

I saw the same thing as sarahh. There was a strong taste of 'there's only one way to write' in your post to cant. With a fillip of 'If you don't, suffer the consequences' at the end.

I don't have Word, and I don't intend to. I've been published with little problem. My editors just send me a pdf file and it has all the change tracks in it. I send files as rtf which is readable by a lot more programs than Word. Hell, Word often can't read Word files since Microsoft changes the format every couple of years. Like crack dealers they like to keep you addicted.

Thanks, Rob.

Oh - but be careful about invoking that name. Competition against Word is dangerous. Microsoft has spies everywhere . . .