An actual writing question from me...don't be shocked.

[ABSTRUSE]

I have a bit of a dilemma.
I found a play, I had written, and I would like to convert into a story format. Obviously I have the dialogue.

The problem is, what is the best way to write a story where there are multiple characters speaking? I don't want to lose the flow of the conversation.

The story is about 4 friends who attend a woman's symposium where they fill out questionaires on women's issues. It is meant to be humorous.

How much attention do I need for fleshing out the background environment?

So what catagory would I post in? Humor and Satire? Non-erotic, though there is a mention of sexual issues.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Thank you, Abs.

 

[Alex De Kok]

So far as the dialogue is concerned, make sure you use sufficient tags that confusion between characters is avoided, but keep them simple. Something like -

- - - - - -

"What on earth do I put here?" said Judy.

Anne looked over her shoulder. "Not the truth, you'll get us thrown out."

"Which question's that?" said Liz.

"Number four," said Judy with a smirk.

- - - - - - -

It looks like overkill at first, but it works. If the dialogue is good, and the tags kept simple, no-one notices.

On the background, no idea without knowing more about it. Same for category. The category might decide itself as you work through.

Alex

 

[ABSTRUSE]

So far as the dialogue is concerned, make sure you use sufficient tags that confusion between characters is avoided, but keep them simple. Something like -

- - - - - -

"What on earth do I put here?" said Judy.

Anne looked over her shoulder. "Not the truth, you'll get us thrown out."

"Which question's that?" said Liz.

"Number four," said Judy with a smirk.

- - - - - - -

It looks like overkill at first, but it works. If the dialogue is good, and the tags kept simple, no-one notices.

On the background, no idea without knowing more about it. Same for category. The category might decide itself as you work through.

Alex

Bless you!

 

[CharleyH]

Agree with Alex on the dialogue. Depending on speech patterns though, its not always necessary to say who said what. I have read some passages like that and find it redundant and dull. Yet, you still have to make clear who is talking.

As for transforming drama to story. Drama is meant to be interpreted for stage and background typically emerges through dialogue and action. I think you will need to fill in some background, but only you would know best how little or much.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

In my opinion, writing a multi-party converstaion is one of the harder things to pull off in fiction.

Alex’s method never works in my hands, because all those attributives become noticeable and tend to grate aftrer awhile, and once the reader notices them, you’re sunk. The conversation tends to become all “She saids” and “said shes”.

My suggestions:

(1) Give us a clear picture of who’s who at the start. Exaggerate their features, almost caricaturize them. Jane is the thin nervous chain-smoker. Mary’s vain and keeps playing with her long red hair or checking her makeup. Celia doesn’t speak in complete sentences. Laura has a foul mouth.

(2) Give them each something to do during their conversation. Then, instead of always writing “Jane said” or “replied Jane” you can use non-attributives like “Jane stubbed out her cigarette in disgust” or “Mary took out her compact and checked her lipstick.” These non-attributive attributives also give you a chance to express their emotions and moods by the things they do and the way they do them. It's also a great way to pace your dialogue.

(3) Give them something to do besides just sitting and talking. Maybe they could be window shopping, or driving somewhere, or anything that gives a semblance of action and direction. You’ve got to break up the blocks of talk with some sort of external action.

(4) In any group converstaion, there’s usually one main chain, and all these other litle ancillary chains that don’t really go anywhere. Concentrate on the main chain.

(5) You can try and have each of them have their own speech mannerisms, but in my experience that’s harder to do than it sounds, and it takes a fairly long time to establish those mannersims in a reader’s mind. If you can pull that off, it can be very useful, but still, whenever one of them says something really important you’ve got to unambiguously indentify the speaker. Nothing worse than having someone say “I’m pregnant” or somesuch and be unsure of just who said it.

---dr.M.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Thank you Alex, Charley and Zoot.
I see this as a challenge I hope I can accomplish.
Your input is most appreciated and I can see things a little clearer now.
~A~

 

[ABSTRUSE]

afternoon bump.

 

[The-oldmans-wife]

As a stage play there must be be the ubiquitous stage directions. If you can expand them into naritive background that should fill out the story.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Just something to add to the conversation. Why not submit it in form of a play? I have considered the possibility often, to write a story deliberately in play or script format, if I felt the story had to gain from it.

The life-story of screenwriter, for example, could be written in screenplay format - it would be in character and it could convey an effective symbolism into the story.

Formatting, as POV and verbal times, usually has, for me, a very strong relation of causality with the content of the story. The way I think stories, they must be told in a certain way and can't simply shift format or POV or whatever on a whim... Does anyone else feel this about writing?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Just something to add to the conversation. Why not submit it in form of a play? I have considered the possibility often, to write a story deliberately in play or script format, if I felt the story had to gain from it.

The life-story of screenwriter, for example, could be written in screenplay format - it would be in character and it could convey an effective symbolism into the story.

Formatting, as POV and verbal times, usually has, for me, a very strong relation of causality with the content of the story. The way I think stories, they must be told in a certain way and can't simply shift format or POV or whatever on a whim... Does anyone else feel this about writing?

That is an interesting perspective Lauren. I wonder what others have to say also.
Thank you.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

Just something to add to the conversation. Why not submit it in form of a play? I have considered the possibility often, to write a story deliberately in play or script format, if I felt the story had to gain from it.

The life-story of screenwriter, for example, could be written in screenplay format - it would be in character and it could convey an effective symbolism into the story.

Formatting, as POV and verbal times, usually has, for me, a very strong relation of causality with the content of the story. The way I think stories, they must be told in a certain way and can't simply shift format or POV or whatever on a whim... Does anyone else feel this about writing?

I don't recall ever reading a posting on Lit in that format. Could be interesting to try Abs.

But often when 'reading' play I find it lacks the 'flow' of a normally written story. I find myself reading the character titles every time and it tends to make the story, play, a little stilted.

But it might just be me.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

For multi party conversations you can keep up with who is speaking by adding a little regional accent.

Southerners speak differently from people on the west coast, the North east and mid west. A written dialogue, between myself and say, Dirta would need no modifiers really. Our speech patterns and choice of colloquialisms would give away who was speaking more often than not. If you mix this in with a few modifiers when anyone could have spoken you should have little trouble. It's a good way to break up the he said, she said, she <action> then said.

Another idea is to make the women physically dissimilar. If 2 are blonde one brunteet and one redhead, you can use that to your advantage by attrivuting smething to the brunette or red head without getting caught up in proper names or actions.

-Colly

 

[ABSTRUSE]

What if I left the dialogue in play format, leaving a description of the room...as it takes place in one room.????

 

[dr_mabeuse]

What if I left the dialogue in play format, leaving a description of the room...as it takes place in one room.????

You can try that, but the fact is that a play is not a story. A script tells you what's said but it tells you very little about how and why it's said. Though the author might have that in mind, the real interpretation is left to the actors and director.

Some people seem to be able to supply the inflection and emotion as they read a script, others not. It can be a truly amazing experience to have other people read your script and hear the way they interpret it.

Still it might be worth a try to post a script here. I for one would really like to see what it looks like. Maybe you could post it over in the story discussion circle. At least an excerpt. Get your feet wet without drowning, so to speak.

---dr.M.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

You can try that, but the fact is that a play is not a story. A script tells you what's said but it tells you very little about how and why it's said. Though the author might have that in mind, the real interpretation is left to the actors and director.

Some people seem to be able to supply the inflection and emotion as they read a script, others not. It can be a truly amazing experience to have other people read your script and hear the way they interpret it.

Still it might be worth a try to post a script here. I for one would really like to see what it looks like. Maybe you could post it over in the story discussion circle. At least an excerpt. Get your feet wet without drowning, so to speak.

---dr.M.

Thank you Zoot. There is so many possibilities for this now. I'm working it in as a story, but I do like play formatting in my mind when I do dialogue.
I like the idea of putting some of it in the SDC, thanks again.

~A~

 

[Alex De Kok]

Abstruse,

going off at a tangent here, but is that AV a Luis Royo pic?

Alex

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Abstruse,

going off at a tangent here, but is that AV a Luis Royo pic?

Alex

Yes it is, I love his works. I have wanted to use this one for a while. Thanks for noticing.

 

[CharleyH]

Just something to add to the conversation. Why not submit it in form of a play? I have considered the possibility often, to write a story deliberately in play or script format, if I felt the story had to gain from it.

The life-story of screenwriter, for example, could be written in screenplay format - it would be in character and it could convey an effective symbolism into the story.

Formatting, as POV and verbal times, usually has, for me, a very strong relation of causality with the content of the story. The way I think stories, they must be told in a certain way and can't simply shift format or POV or whatever on a whim... Does anyone else feel this about writing?

Actually, I have a tendancy to agree to a certain point, and I think there were a few threads about translating literature to film, or publishing a film script.

Form can have a definate affect on the sum of any piece of writing, and as a poet, I know you are hyper aware of this. Take the content away from the originally intended form and a great many things, including theme are either lost or surfaced.

It has been rare that I have watched a novel translate well to film, and I think the only exception was Polanski's interpretation of Thomas Hardy's Tess of the D'hurbervilles (sp). Yet, as much as I was inmpressed with the interpretation, it still lost key elements of Hardy's original intention.

Drama, in itself, is written to be interpreted and performed and often the performance can take diverse shapes and interpretations depending on those involved with the performance or the reading. However, I do believe that drama translates fairly well to film, but I am not so certain, upon thinking more thoroughly about it, that it translates well to the novel since the intension is to be performed. For example, Samual Beckett's 'Happy Days' would be a disaster as a novel since part of the whole thematic of the drama is that the main character is in fact the stage, the spectacle, inseperably both form and content.

So do you re-write your play into the form of a novel? An interesting question.

I just caught Dr. M saying his opinion that the real interpretation is left to the director and actors. Actually, I definately disagree. Both film scripts and drama are left to the interpretation of the person reading, and even in performance, the reader/spectator has a much more active than passive role in the interpretation.

 

[Alex De Kok]

I like it too. Just acquired the book 'Visions' to add to my collection of Fantasy/Science-Fiction artists. I like quite a few of them - Chris Achilleos, Boris Vallejo, Julie Bell, Clyde Caldwell, others I can't name off hand, but my favourite is Royo.

Alex

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Actually, I have a tendancy to agree to a certain point, and I think there were a few threads about translating literature to film, or publishing a film script.

Form can have a definate affect on the sum of any piece of writing, and as a poet, I know you are hyper aware of this. Take the content away from the originally intended form and a great many things, including theme are either lost or surfaced.

It has been rare that I have watched a novel translate well to film, and I think the only exception was Polanski's interpretation of Thomas Hardy's Tess of the D'hurbervilles (sp). Yet, as much as I was inmpressed with the interpretation, it still lost key elements of Hardy's original intention.

Drama, in itself, is written to be interpreted and performed and often the performance can take diverse shapes and interpretations depending on those involved with the performance or the reading. However, I do believe that drama translates fairly well to film, but I am not so certain, upon thinking more thoroughly about it, that it translates well to the novel since the intension is to be performed. For example, Samual Beckett's 'Happy Days' would be a disaster as a novel since part of the whole thematic of the drama is that the main character is in fact the stage, the spectacle, inseperably both form and content.

So do you re-write your play into the form of a novel? An interesting question.

I just caught Dr. M saying his opinion that the real interpretation is left to the director and actors. Actually, I definately disagree. Both film scripts and drama are left to the interpretation of the person reading, and even in performance, the reader/spectator has a much more active than passive role in the interpretation.

I hate when you make me think.
Dr. M stated a play isn't a story, I agree that the format is mostly dialogue, but do you feel through dialogue and an actors abilities a story is being told?

I really am at a loss now.

 

[cantdog]

I believe screenplay format would be disaster, though. Thoise things don't "read".

cantdog

 

[Lauren Hynde]

You can try that, but the fact is that a play is not a story. A script tells you what's said but it tells you very little about how and why it's said. Though the author might have that in mind, the real interpretation is left to the actors and director.

I think that this brings us to that place where every discussion on writing ends up: If you can make it work, it works.

I have seen this being used very effectively. (Un)Fortunately, I can't post an extract because it's a work in progress and there are copyright issues, but I can tell you something of how it is. A story, 3rd person sympathetic omniscient narrator, focusing on the life of a screenwriter. At a certain point of the story, triggered by a certain even, the ordinary narration seamlessly morphs into screenplay format, and it continues until the end of that (rather large) chapter. It works because it's a section of the story mostly physical and dynamic, visual. You don't need to tell why something is done - you show it being done and the motivations will be self-evident.

The same way, I've read not only short stories, but short novels written using only dialogue with little or no attributives and no narration. I'm thinking of Nicholson Baker's VOX, for example. The words and actions alone can convey everything the story needs.

Of course that it needs to be the right story and it needs to be done right. Mostly, it needs to be the right story - as I said before: there should always be a direct causality relation between the content of a piece and its shape.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Okay, I'm a hack and I've probably bitten off more than I can chew.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I believe screenplay format would be disaster, though. Thoise things don't "read".

cantdog

Screenplays don't read. The right story written in a screenplay format because it must, would.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Okay, I'm a hack and I've probably bitten off more than I can chew.

Pfft. Nonsene.

The whole fun of it is in trying. What's the worse that can happen?