America's Moral Compass

[McKenna]

I am sickened by this:

Link. (Click to view photos of the crime scene.)

Hit-and-Run Victim Left in Street
HARTFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- A 78-year-old man is tossed like a rag doll by a hit-and-run driver and lies motionless on a busy city street as car after car goes by. Pedestrians gawk but appear to do nothing. One driver stops briefly but then pulls back into traffic. A man on a scooter slowly circles the victim before zipping away.

At 5:50:21, a crowd has gathered, by no one is coming to the stricken man's aid.
3 of 3 The chilling scene -- captured on video by a streetlight surveillance camera -- has touched off a round of soul-searching in Hartford, with the capital city's biggest newspaper blaring "SO INHUMANE" on the front page and the police chief lamenting: "We no longer have a moral compass."

"We have no regard for each other," said Chief Daryl Roberts, who on Wednesday released the video in hopes of making an arrest in the accident that left Angel Arce Torres in critical condition.

However, Roberts and other city officials backtracked on Thursday. After initially saying he was unsure whether anyone called 911, he and other city officials appeared at a news conference in which they said that four people dialed 911 within a minute of the accident, and that Torres received medical attention shortly after that.

"This moved too quickly," said Calixto Torres, City Council president. "People were putting information out too quickly."

Roberts said his initial angry reaction was based on what he saw in the video. "The video was very graphic and sent a very bad message," the police chief said. Watch the impact and the bystanders' failure to act »

The hit-and-run took place in daylight last Friday at about 5:45 p.m. in a working-class neighborhood close to downtown in this city of 125,000.

In the video, Torres, a retired fork-lift operator, walks in the two-way street just blocks from the state Capitol after buying milk at a grocery. A tan Toyota and a dark Honda that is apparently chasing it veer across the center line, and Torres is struck by the Honda. Both cars then dart down a side street.

Nine cars pass Torres as a few people stare from the sidewalk. Some approach Torres, but most stay put until a police cruiser responding to an unrelated call arrives on the scene after about a minute and a half.

"Like a dog they left him there," said a disgusted Jose Cordero, 37, who was with friends Thursday not far from where Torres was struck. Robert Luna, who works at a store nearby, said: "Nobody did nothing."

One witness, Bryant Hayre, told The Hartford Courant he didn't feel comfortable helping Torres, who he said was bleeding and conscious.

The accident -- and bystanders' apparent callousness -- dominated morning radio talk shows.

"It was one of the most despicable things I've seen by one human being to another," the Rev. Henry Brown, a community activist, said in an interview. "I don't understand the mind-set anymore. It's kind of mind-boggling. We're supposed to help each other. You see somebody fall, you want to offer a helping hand."

The victim's son, Angel Arce, begged the public for help in finding the driver. "My father is fighting for his life," he said.

The hit-and-run is the second violent crime to shock Hartford this week. On Monday, former Deputy Mayor Nicholas Carbone, 71, was beaten and robbed while walking to breakfast. He remains hospitalized and faces brain surgery.

"There was a time they would have helped that man across the street. Now they mug and assault him," police chief said. "Anything goes."

I would have stopped, without hesitation. I know this in my gut. It wouldn't have been the first time I've stopped at the scene of an accident, either. I don't understand this mentality of watching a man bleed, knowing without doubt he's the victim of a serious crime? I'm disturbed, on so many levels.

What can we do to change the direction of our country's moral compass? Anything? I'm not talking religious mumbo-jumbo, I'm talking the basic human sense of right and wrong. Watching a 78 year old man bleed in the street? Wrong. What kind of thought-process is involved to keep a person from reacting to such a scene? I just don't understand.

 

[rgraham666]

Bring an end to the 'Me first and the devil take the hindmost' attitude that's so predominant in our culture.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I saw that story as well, its so disheartening.
That poor man.

 

[christabelll]

Most are afraid of helping because they might get sued or thought of as the culprit in the scene - it happens ALOT in our society

We have been living in a "I'm not responsible society" for more than 50 years and this comes as a shock? Its all about me you know ----

I might have hesitated briefly (shock ya know) but I would have been there in the thick of it helping the old man and or directing traffic... My own personal reaction would have waited until the ambulance drove away before I fell apart and started cursing the world at large while shaking like leaves in a fell breeze

If I can help I do - If I cannot I will try to point in the direction of help from elsewhere. I hope he recovers to buy another carton of milk. And the crackerheads who did this? may they lie in the street with broken legs and no one come to succor them.

 

[Recidiva]

I am sickened by this:

Link. (Click to view photos of the crime scene.)

I would have stopped, without hesitation. I know this in my gut. It wouldn't have been the first time I've stopped at the scene of an accident, either. I don't understand this mentality of watching a man bleed, knowing without doubt he's the victim of a serious crime? I'm disturbed, on so many levels.

What can we do to change the direction of our country's moral compass? Anything? I'm not talking religious mumbo-jumbo, I'm talking the basic human sense of right and wrong. Watching a 78 year old man bleed in the street? Wrong. What kind of thought-process is involved to keep a person from reacting to such a scene? I just don't understand.

I know I would have done something. My compass works, so it's not "America" because I grew up here and mine's in good working order.

I think it's a lack of a thought process. Shock and horror do bad things to people.

 

[S-Des]

I know I would have stopped, because I have done so. It doesn't make me a great guy, or more caring than the next person, I saw someone in trouble, pulled my car to the side of the road and did what I could to help. It's a shame that this incident happened (the idiots racing should face seriously stiff jail sentences if they get caught), and it's compounded by the lack of a reaction from the people present. I think some may have been in shock, others might have been afraid to be involved (they tell you never to move an unconscious person), but there were plenty of people who were obviously too busy to bother. Sad, but unfortunately it's a reality of life today. I still have hope that at some point things will turn around.

Then again, you can watch the story about the two teenage girls who stole money from the girl scout and were completely immune to any embarrassment or guilt (even bragging to the camera crew about what they bought and expressing anger over getting punished while the girl got "sympathy money" from the public), and wonder if we've just scratched the surface.

 

[cloudy]

I know I would have done something. My compass works, so it's not "America" because I grew up here and mine's in good working order.

Ditto this. I have stopped to help a stranger, so I know I would do so again.

I think it's a lack of a thought process. Shock and horror do bad things to people.

I'm not so sure about this. I think it's more along the lines of "I don't want to be involved" and, as Rob said above, me-first thinking.

I saw this on the news, too, and while horrified, I can't say that I was surprised at all.

 

[amicus]

Sighs, sometimes I am not pleased with growing old, for a variety of reasons.

This criticism, of 'The moral compass...', erupts every four years before an election, as detractors, on both sides, want to emphasize the faulty leadership at the top.

Events such as the hit and run, occur often, as one who read the news for 40 years can attest to, and do not reflect of the morality of a nation, they simply remind us that there are criminals among us.

Make a big thing of it folks, par for the course.

Amicus...

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

This is very disturbing, but it's so easy to say "I would have acted," and indeed it's hard to imagine not acting. And yet, I'll bet that every person who didn't act, if they had seen something like this in the news before would have had the same reaction: "I would act!" Yet they didn't. So I'm trying to understand, and to imagine or discover contextual details that make this less bizarre than it appears on its face.

Current hypothesis: It's not so much a moral compass thing but more a "human thing." In an uncertain situation people look to take cues from someone or something, and unless one individual overcomes inertia and makes him or herself into a proactive leader, they hesitate and fail to act promptly. Imagine had such a leader taken charge in this instance, and started giving instructions to bystanders - most would have been relieved, and snapped to it. Uncertaintly is the key element, I think.

 

[3113]

Current hypothesis: It's not so much a moral compass thing but more a "human thing." In an uncertain situation people look to take cues from someone or something, and unless one individual overcomes inertia and makes him or herself into a proactive leader, they hesitate and fail to act promptly. Imagine had such a leader taken charge in this instance, and started giving instructions to bystanders - most would have been relieved, and snapped to it. Uncertaintly is the key element, I think.

Good point. I also wonder if people have been indoctrinated to "don't touch" or move any person who's been hurt; wait for the ambulance or police. People get yelled at for moving a hurt person, and told that they might have done the person more damage in doing so.

This is often said on t.v. by television police and doctors. Directing traffic yes, moving the body...I'd wait for the ambulance.

 

[Recidiva]

Good point. I also wonder if people have been indoctrinated to "don't touch" or move any person who's been hurt; wait for the ambulance or police. People get yelled at for moving a hurt person, and told that they might have done the person more damage in doing so.

This is often said on t.v. by television police and doctors. Directing traffic yes, moving the body...I'd wait for the ambulance.

My husband's ripped the door off a car when people were inside...on fire...and was advised later...

He could get sued for that.

Well, fine. Sue him.

But I think you're right, that's a modern component to this "Don't disturb the crime scene, don't interfere."

However, there are limits to how fully that should be applied. Wading out into traffic is what I know I would have done because I'm impulsive and heedless and I wouldn't be able to NOT do that in that moment.

So sue me.

 

[Carnevil9]

Anyone here old enough to remember Kitty Genovese? This kind of stuff has been happening for a long time.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_genovese

When I took Psych 101, they called this "diffusion of responsibility." A lone person witnessing a crisis will act, since he knows it's up to him. A crowd of people witnessing the same crisis will stand around, wondering who will act first.

 

[Stella_Omega]

How many news items have you read about people ignoring someone who needs help?

My guess for myself is maybe ten times in my life-- women who get raped while the people around hear her screams, someone who dies while pedestrians walk by.

Ten, maybe fifteen.

That's not much, really.

It's so extremely unusual that it's huge news when it happens. HUGE news.

If it happened every day, it wouldn't be news.

That tells me that America's moral compass is pretty much where it's always been.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

My husband's ripped the door off a car when people were inside...on fire...and was advised later...

He could get sued for that.

Well, fine. Sue him.

But I think you're right, that's a modern component to this "Don't disturb the crime scene, don't interfere."

However, there are limits to how fully that should be applied. Wading out into traffic is what I know I would have done because I'm impulsive and heedless and I wouldn't be able to NOT do that in that moment.

So sue me.

Yeah, sue me too.

The caution about moving the injured body thing is a little different though. It's good medical sense, in case there's a spine injury, you could make it worse. Judgement is needed though. And in any event nothing prevents you from kneeling by the person, reassuring the person, telling them to relax, they're gonna be OK, ambulance on the way, etc. Someone here held the hand of a dying motorcyclist recently - who was that? He did a good thing, that person did not die alone, he was able to tell that to his loved ones, and tell them too that he was not in agony as he died, etc.

~~~

I'm glad we're trying to penetrate a little deeper here.

 

[3113]

I'm glad we're trying to penetrate a little deeper here.

I am, too. This whole incident, to me, shows a very different message--which is how quick we are to jump to generalization and, thanks to mass media from internet to radio to television, spread that generalization--in this case, officials though that no one had called 911 and were already berating the public about it, then, oops, they found out people had.

Jumping the gun has become all too easy is the message I'm getting here.

We don't know why each person who didn't stop didn't stop or if they did stop why they didn't touch the person. Yet suddenly this incident indicates that all of the U.S. is morally lacking. Is it? Or did one person feel they shouldn't move the body, while another thought the person might be dead and another feared getting involved because they might be sued, and another called 911 and felt it best to leave things in the hands of professionals?

It's scary to me how quickly a misconception can proliferate itself these days and specifics that might be reasonable be turned into an unreasonable generalization. I'm not saying that this generalization is entirely wrong, by the way. Maybe it does reflect the fact that we're selfish bastards--either the people in that city, or the people in that state, or the people in the whole U.S. or human beings as a whole.

But it's still quite an assumption from a small and perhaps unrepresentative sample.

 

[Guest]

I think I was most bothered by the one person who walked close by and then walked away. Sickening.

But the rest of the people seemed shocked, horrified. They didn't seem to have a clue what they should do.

The police were there under two minutes and the article said that at least 4 people had called 911.

Maybe for some, THAT's what they do to help. That's all they know what to do to help. Call 911. And two minutes is not a long time, really.

On the other hand, we are far too sue-happy in this country. If you try to help and you don't know what you are doing you could do more harm than good. Or even if you try to help you can get sued for the hell of it.

My mother is a retired registered nurse. She used to hide her uniform when we were in public because she didn't want to be pulled into a situation like that.

I remember once being at a baseball game - Royals and Tigers, I think it was. Anyway, this large and loud guy, red-faced and beer drinking, shouting at the officials, keeled over before the seventh inning stretch. This was a few sections down from us.

Someone who was close to him began to properly administer CPR while a crowd gathered and an ambulance was called.

By the time the EMTs arrived, this guy was awake, had vomited all over the gal giving him CPR, and was convulsing.

Just because my mother had medical training, should she have been compelled to be the one giving CPR? What if that guy had AIDS?

So I am torn about this.

In this situation do I wish that someone had walked to the man, made certain he was breathing, told him that help was on the way, diverted traffic away, etc? Of course.

There was a very large group of people who were stunned into non-action. Or was it non-action, since 4 of them called for help?

Maybe that's all they thought they should do.

Or maybe they are insensitive assholes.

I do hope they find and prosecute the drivers.

 

[S-Des]

So I am torn about this.

In this situation do I wish that someone had walked to the man, made certain he was breathing, told him that help was on the way, diverted traffic away, etc? Of course.

There was a very large group of people who were stunned into non-action. Or was it non-action, since 4 of them called for help?

Maybe that's all they thought they should do.

Or maybe they are insensitive assholes.

I do hope they find and prosecute the drivers.

The thought that goes through my head is wondering if the guy who was laying there was conscious or not. Two minutes could seem like an eternity if you are laying in agonizing pain, alone, in the street, wondering if another car is about to run over you at any second. Someone taking the initiative to run out there and tell him the police are on the way, to listen if he needs to say something (in case he does pass away), or just to make sure someone driving obliviously doesn't accidentally finish the job, is the least you would expect from a group of adults.

I am not comforted that 4 people out of the dozens on the street (and several in cars who you can see pull over) bothered to dial 3 numbers on their cell phones. There are instances where a mob of people rushing over to an accident scene is a bad thing, but to have no one even assure the man that the police have been called? That's just pathetic (and I do think it's a microcosm of the world we live in).

 

[shereads]

I saw this last night and felt sick.

 

[Guest]

The thought that goes through my head is wondering if the guy who was laying there was conscious or not. Two minutes could seem like an eternity if you are laying in agonizing pain, alone, in the street, wondering if another car is about to run over you at any second. Someone taking the initiative to run out there and tell him the police are on the way, to listen if he needs to say something (in case he does pass away), or just to make sure someone driving obliviously doesn't accidentally finish the job, is the least you would expect from a group of adults.

I am not comforted that 4 people out of the dozens on the street (and several in cars who you can see pull over) bothered to dial 3 numbers on their cell phones. There are instances where a mob of people rushing over to an accident scene is a bad thing, but to have no one even assure the man that the police have been called? That's just pathetic (and I do think it's a microcosm of the world we live in).

I am not certain of that, actually.

I do know that people react in different ways to a crisis situation.

My sister goes into vapor-lock. 'Nuff said.

I've been tested in similar situations, both with my children and with my students. I handle matters until the "good guys" arrive, then fall apart later.

But I can't damn someone just because they went into vapor-lock for a minute and a half until the police car showed up.

What happened after? Once the shock had worn off, did they give information about the drivers to police? Did they help in other ways?

This poor man was hit by a car driven by someone who'd run a red light, then further victimized because a small crowd was either rudely complacent or shocked into being that way.

The whole thing is depressing. But I'm angrier at the driver of the car then I am at the crowd.

 

[cloudy]

II've been tested in similar situations, both with my children and with my students. I handle matters until the "good guys" arrive, then fall apart later.

This is what I do. I'm a rock during the crisis, but once it's taken out of my hands, I'm a noodle.

 

[Guest]

This is what I do. I'm a rock during the crisis, but once it's taken out of my hands, I'm a noodle.

Yep.

We've been through a fair amount, ambulances, car accidents, stitches, broken bones, heart attacks, bad allergic reaction to bee sting (!) - I'm a rock during, noodle after.

Just give me a quiet corner later.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I once pulled the window out of a van where a woman who must have been in her 90's was trapped (she'd been asleep and left alone by her relatives) and panicking. A bike cop who came up very soon after told me I wasn't in trouble. Hell, in California we have a very strong Good Samaritan law. I knew I wasn't in trouble. Some people still don't understand. Then there was the time we put out a car fire because my ride was squared enough away to be carrying a fire extinguisher.

 

[shereads]

I know I'd act. And I know at least one other person who would - my friend C, who was at the wheel when we saw a wheelchair that had overturned when it entered an intersection. The occupant was lying in the crosswalk, helpless.

The light changed, and he was suddenly blocking traffic with his body and wheelchair. Some people actually honked their horns.

C and I were in the opposite lane of traffic. She immediately pulled over - as far as she could, but she still had to leave her car parked in traffic - and the two of us tried to get the chair upright and the man back into it.

People didn't just fail to help - some of them got angry because they weren't going to make it through the intersection before the light changed. We were honked at, and yelled at, but not one person offered to help - until C managed to shame one driver into getting out of his car to help us right the wheelchair. He at least had the grace to act sheepish for not having volunteered his help.

I had forgotten about that moment until now. I feel ashamed for the human race all over again.

No, I can't imagine allowing someone to lie prone in front of cars while I wait for someone else to emerge as a "leader." Too many people wait for someone else to announce by word or action that it's okay to break away from the moving herd and take independent action.

 

[Guest]

I know I'd act. And I know at least one other person who would - my friend C, who was at the wheel when we saw a wheelchair that had overturned when it entered an intersection. The occupant was lying in the crosswalk, helpless.

The light changed, and he was suddenly blocking traffic with his body and wheelchair. Some people actually honked their horns.

C and I were in the opposite lane of traffic. She immediately pulled over - as far as she could, but she still had to leave her car parked in traffic - and the two of us tried to get the chair upright and the man back into it.

People didn't just fail to help - some of them got angry because they weren't going to make it through the intersection before the light changed. We were honked at, and yelled at, but not one person offered to help - until C managed to shame one driver into getting out of his car to help us right the wheelchair. He at least had the grace to act sheepish for not having volunteered his help.

I had forgotten about that moment until now. I feel ashamed for the human race all over again.

No, I can't imagine allowing someone to lie prone in front of cars while I wait for someone else to emerge as a "leader." Too many people wait for someone else to announce by word or action that it's okay to break away from the moving herd and take independent action.

Damn.

Maybe I'm giving the crowd too much credit. I was thinking vapor-lock shock when maybe they just didn't want to get involved.

The situation sucks all the way around.

 

[shereads]

Damn.

Maybe I'm giving the crowd too much credit. I was thinking vapor-lock shock when maybe they just didn't want to get involved.

The situation sucks all the way around.

Oh, I understand the paralysis. I think most of us feel that for a moment or two, and nearly all of us would rather not get involved.

But I'd bet my Delman ballet flats that you, SSS, would not ignore someone lying helpless in traffic...And these are not shoes to be taken lightly!