America's last best hope to defend Western values

Le Jacquelope

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At the rate we're going with the West's soaring trade deficit with China and India, the West may become a second rate or even third world society in relation to China and India.

Their space programs are an obvious sign that they are on their way to catching up with us and, eventually, passing us, technologically.

China and India have amassed an immense industrial and info-tech advantage, to the point that almost all consumer electronics are made there. China and India have proposed an industrial-tech alliance that, if they were to follow through on it, would render the Western world a backward world in comparison. But again, that pales in comparison to what they're doing with regards to going into outer space.

But worse than this, the popularity of India and China for employers clearly says three things that completely discredit Western nations and their values:

1) Rock bottom wages is the way to go if you want to attract jobs.
2) You need to allow companies to pollute your air and water without the burden of cleaning up their mess, in order to attract jobs.
3) If you enforce reasonable workplace safety rules, you will lose jobs overseas. Companies will go where it's legal for them to build factories and mines that collapse.

In addition, for China, they are an undemocratic despotic country rife with corporate crony capitalism.

As long as those conditions continue to persist, the entire concept of Western values will continue to lose credibility in the eyes of the world.

Inevitably, China and India will corner the market on technological production and research - including biotech (both high-tech biotech research and production), which is currently being offshored to India.

Why go for a science degree in America when your job is going to go overseas? Indeed, enrollment in the sciences is not increasing as it should be, especially when you count out the Chinese and Indian students who come here, get educated, and leave.


Ending trade with China and India has been mistakenly compared to Smoot-Hawley by ignorant people who, embarrassed by the mountains of historical fact show the foolishness of such comparisns, are too afraid to discuss the issue of the inevitable ruin of Western civilization with 'free trade'.

The reality is, ending trade with these countries is painful and even economically devastating in the short run - but to not end trade with them will lead to far worse short and long term consequences. Continuing to trade with China and India will lead to Western civilization becoming a world of has-beens with undemocratic despots and sweatshop nations calling the global political shots just as the Western world does now.

Free trade with China and India can only lead to a future dark age in which the Corporate State rules the world and the working class will languish in industrial pollution - which, without all the other issues (poverty by rock bottom wages, a growing global disrespect for democracy, etc.) that will come to fruition, is catastrophic enough all by itself.


The solution is clear: End all trade with China and India, and end all trade barriers with Western democracies.

Trade only with nations that respect not only democracy, but also worker's rights and the human race's right to a clean environment.

Bite the bullet now before China and India render the West and its values obsolete.
 
You just described America circa 1783. We were in debt to everyone, stone broke. money worthless, no industries worth the name.

But most Americans arent sulky shit-for-brains like you are. While you and your ilk stand around with thumb in ass and thumb in mouth, the rest of us will get the job done.
 

Xerxes ordered the Hellespont (the strait itself) whipped three hundred times and had fetters thrown into the water.

 
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What part of, "room temperature IQ underachieving clueless kindergarten dropouts like you are a waste of time to discuss anything with" keeps soaring over your midget heads?
 
JERKY! Be sweet!

What? Do you seriously think you can parade down Main Street, shitting on the pavement, and the sanitation crews wont scoop your crap up?

Play nice and I'll think about being nice, too. No promises, though.
 
What else is new, low wages, environmental degradation - whattya expect when hlaf the country still believes in evolution? It's already over.
 
What else is new, low wages, environmental degradation - whattya expect when hlaf the country still believes in evolution? It's already over.
When one of these Bible Belt parts of America finds out that praying for God to smite the enemies of Wal Mart and the enemies of their local coal fired power plant, doesn't save their kids from industrial pollution

oh wait, nevermind. They'll say it's God's* will that their kids got cancer.

*headdesk*



*eta: I'm not exactly sure what God they're praying to or referring to; it sure doesn't look like the God who sent Jesus to die for our sins...
 

India is, of course, the world's largest democracy. Just so we know who you're talking about in your simplistic solution, we'll await your classification of the following as to which qualify as "Western democracies" and will, thereby avoid the imposition of your suggested punitive tariffs. Don't forget to justify your answers with details of how you intend to determine the country of origin for any particular product. Are Volkswagens manufactured in Germany? Where are Airbus planes manufactured? What is the country of origin of display units containing LCD chemicals? Are Ford automobiles American? Are Tecumseh scroll compressors Indian?


Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
American Samoa
Andorra
Angola
Anguilla
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Aruba
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bermuda
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Bouvet Island
Brazil
British Virgin Islands
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burma ( Myanmar )
Burundi
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Cape Verde
Cayman Islands
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
China
Colombia
Comoros
Congo, Democratic Republic of the
Congo, Republic of the
Cook Islands
Costa Rica
Cote d'Ivoire
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark
Djibouti
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Faroe Islands
Fiji
Finland
France
French Guiana
Gabon
Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Gibraltar
Greece
Greenland
Grenada
Guadeloupe
Guam
Guatemala
Guernsey
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Isle of Man
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Jan Mayen
Japan
Jersey
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kiribati
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kosovo
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macau
Macedonia
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Malta
Marshall Islands
Martinique
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mayotte
Mexico
Micronesia, Federated States of
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Montenegro
Montserrat
Morocco
Mozambique
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
Netherlands
Netherlands Antilles
New Caledonia
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
Niue
Northern Mariana Islands
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Palau
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Pitcairn Islands
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Reunion
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Saint Barthelemy
Saint Helena
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Martin
Saint Pierre and Miquelon
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia
South Africa
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Svalbard
Swaziland
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Timor-Leste
Togo
Tokelau
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Turks and Caicos Islands
Tuvalu
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Western Sahara
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe
 
JERKY

I descend from evil slave masters, so handling bruthas is in my blood.
 
Are we still trading with those undemocratic, baby girl massacring, overly polluted, crony capitalist bastages?

Yes?

Then no, I'm not at all happy.

This is worse than free trade with Nazi Germany.

Like "W"s grandaddy?
 
Jeez. Jacq spouting off again?

What, does he think big posts and a college freshman's grasp of economics makes him sound intelligent?

Oh, wait . . . he's just representing his country. Right. Carry on. ;)
 
Jeez. Jacq spouting off again?

What, does he think big posts and a college freshman's grasp of economics makes him sound intelligent?

Oh, wait . . . he's just representing his country. Right. Carry on. ;)
Well, it sure beats the small minded grade school dropout bullshit that you just tried to pass off as a counter argument.

I posted this thread knowing full well that you would throw a tantrum like that post you just wrote - because you can't challenge me.

You're not man enough to challenge me on a factual basis, and you're certainly not intelligent enough to. The only thing you or anyone else can do with a post as solid as what I wrote, is flail. Flail and act like little angry, defeated children.

Now I suspect you'll learn your lesson and remain silent and know your place.
 
Another fact that Author's Hangout posters are afraid to address:

In the 1800s, when U.S. protectionism led to tariffs of 40%-50% on foreign goods, our economy was even better than Britain's - which, mind you, practiced free trade at the time. We had TWICE their growth rate. TWICE.

Their workers came to the US to find work.


Wanna keep mouthing off about this, idiots?
 
Bingo. We put him in prison for that.

:confused:

You must be confused. "W"s grandad was Richard Nixon's mentor and used his influence to get Ike to take him as VP.

Senator Bush played the McCarthy game and looked after the interests of the wealthy who supported him.

If we had put him in jail for trading with the enemy. #41 and 43 may have been different people, and we could be bitching about Presidents Dukacus and Gore, and McCain.
 
Le Jacquelope: India is a democracy. India is a democracy with many trade and historical links to the UK.

Just because they're doing better than you, doesn't mean they're evil.

The Earl

ETA: Oh, and they play cricket. So they're much more civilised than the USA.
 
You must be confused. "W"s grandad was Richard Nixon's mentor and used his influence to get Ike to take him as VP.

Senator Bush played the McCarthy game and looked after the interests of the wealthy who supported him.

If we had put him in jail for trading with the enemy. #41 and 43 may have been different people, and we could be bitching about Presidents Dukacus and Gore, and McCain.
Oh right, that was Prescott that we seized his assets for that.

Le Jacquelope: India is a democracy. India is a democracy with many trade and historical links to the UK.

Just because they're doing better than you, doesn't mean they're evil.

The Earl

ETA: Oh, and they play cricket. So they're much more civilised than the USA.
I didn't say India was not a democracy. I said India is one of the other evils - an overly polluted low wage sweatshop hellhole. Plus, their people murder their own baby girls, like in China. Do you consider their infanticide or extreme levels of pollution good or evil?

Oh and their 'democracy' is a joke. See: their persistent caste system.
 
I didn't say India was not a democracy. I said India is one of the other evils - an overly polluted low wage sweatshop hellhole. Plus, their people murder their own baby girls, like in China. Do you consider their infanticide or extreme levels of pollution good or evil?

Oh and their 'democracy' is a joke. See: their persistent caste system.

On a weighted index, the USA is 9 places above India on the Human Right violations list. They are both in the top 100 worst countries.

Incidentally, I hear ostracisation is the best way to deal with international issues. It's worked so well in the past.

The Earl
 
On a weighted index, the USA is 9 places above India on the Human Right violations list. They are both in the top 100 worst countries.
Blame Dubya for that. I'm sure we'll improve now that Obama's here. He's already closing Gitmo. It's quite sad for America, though.

Incidentally, I hear ostracisation is the best way to deal with international issues. It's worked so well in the past.

The Earl
Hey, um, how did free trade work for England back in the 1800s? Hmm?

If we didn't have this idiot child 'free trade' we would have TWO MILLION MORE MANUFACTURING JOBS that were lost to this corrupt race-to-the-bottom market system.
 
Blame Dubya for that. I'm sure we'll improve now that Obama's here. He's already closing Gitmo. It's quite sad for America, though.

Incidentally, most of the countries on that top 100 list are very poor ones. Most of the countries on the top 100 best list are very rich ones.

But heck, stunting India's development by restricting their economy will only help improve their human rights records. Because people are so much less likely to consider individual liberties when they have enough to eat.

Hey, um, how did free trade work for England back in the 1800s? Hmm?

If we didn't have this idiot child 'free trade' we would have TWO MILLION MORE MANUFACTURING JOBS that were lost to this corrupt race-to-the-bottom market system.

In 1860, Britain had 2% of the world's population and yet was responsible for 40-45% of the world's industrial capacity. It produced over 50% of the world's coal and iron and consumed just under half of the world's cotton. It was responsible for a third of the world's commerce in manufactured goods.

It wasn't until the abandonment of free trade in the 1900s, and the imposition of massive tariffs on imported manufactured goods, that the British economy started to decline and lose its place to the USA.

Incidentally, this rise and fall almost exactly mirrored that of the Dutch trading empire, which failed after it started raising taxes and tariffs on trading.

But let's not look to history for the answers. After all, what does George Santayana know about anything?

The Earl
 
Incidentally, most of the countries on that top 100 list are very poor ones. Most of the countries on the top 100 best list are very rich ones.

But heck, stunting India's development by restricting their economy will only help improve their human rights records. Because people are so much less likely to consider individual liberties when they have enough to eat.
I care more about protecting OUR democracy and OUR workers than theirs. We're sending the world's best jobs to them - what jobs are they sending here?

Are we supposed to wait until we're poor like them before jobs start coming back to America?

In 1860, Britain had 2% of the world's population and yet was responsible for 40-45% of the world's industrial capacity. It produced over 50% of the world's coal and iron and consumed just under half of the world's cotton. It was responsible for a third of the world's commerce in manufactured goods.

It wasn't until the abandonment of free trade in the 1900s, and the imposition of massive tariffs on imported manufactured goods, that the British economy started to decline and lose its place to the USA.

Incidentally, this rise and fall almost exactly mirrored that of the Dutch trading empire, which failed after it started raising taxes and tariffs on trading.

But let's not look to history for the answers. After all, what does George Santayana know about anything?

The Earl
But I'm not talking about tariffing ALL imported goods. Just those coming from despotic shitholes and countries that drive wages through the floor.

I'd eliminate all trade barriers with Western democracies. I said that in the opening post, did I not?
 
I care more about protecting OUR democracy and OUR workers than theirs. We're sending the world's best jobs to them - what jobs are they sending here?

Are we supposed to wait until we're poor like them before jobs start coming back to America?


But I'm not talking about tariffing ALL imported goods. Just those coming from despotic shitholes and countries that drive wages through the floor.

I'd eliminate all trade barriers with Western democracies. I said that in the opening post, did I not?

Incidentally, Britain's tariffs started with those that they didn't like as well.

Good night Lit.

The Earl
 
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