American citizens who vote an autocracy into power should not be allowed to own guns.

[RoryN]

They represent a danger to democracy, and thus cannot be trusted with firearms.

Change my mind.

 

[Saint_Ann]

They represent a danger to democracy, and thus cannot be trusted with firearms.

Change my mind.

What mind?

 

[dmallord]

Is it that time of year? Oil change for winterization? But seriously fella, you don't expect to have your mind changed; I know that from past posts. But, I've a moment or two so I'll bite.

I get the concern about citizens voting for an autocracy, but stripping gun rights based on political choices sets a dangerous precedent. The Second Amendment is meant to protect against tyranny, and cutting off rights because of how people vote undercuts that very principle.

Instead, we should push for better civic education, real dialogue, and a commitment to democratic norms. Democracy is not defended by picking and choosing who gets rights based on their beliefs—it is protected by ensuring everyone’s freedoms and fostering debate. That’s how you build resilience against any slide toward authoritarianism.

It's hard to see that, given the current clown show about to get underway, but that's how I see it should and ought to be.

 

[Politruk]

The Second Amendment is meant to protect against tyranny

No, it isn't. It's meant to facilitate a militia-based national defense system. It is not meant to facilitate insurrection.

 

[RoryN]

The Second Amendment is meant to protect against tyranny, and cutting off rights because of how people vote undercuts that very principle.

They voted for leadership which does not believe in the Constitution.

So they effectvely voted against that Amendment.

 

[TastySuckToy]

What mind?

[/thread]

 

[coati]

They voted for leadership which does not believe in the Constitution.

So they effectvely voted against that Amendment.

Excellent point. And excellent thread topic.

Everyone should reread the Preamble to the Constitution to understand its purpose. The second amendment serves only to fend off autocracy, not to establish it within our borders.

 

[dmallord]

No, it isn't. It's meant to facilitate a militia-based national defense system. It is not meant to facilitate insurrection.

They voted for leadership which does not believe in the Constitution.

So they effectvely voted against that Amendment.

Poli, as originally intended, the Second Amendment was about empowering citizens for a 'well-regulated militia' to protect against external threats and tyranny—and surely not meant to justify insurrection. However, the Constitution is a living document, and court cases like Heller have evolved this understanding to include individual rights, thus complicating Second Amendment interpretations. As such, the Second Amendment rights are no longer just about militias or strictly national defense, are they?

Rory, from one oldtimer to another, you've got to know the notion that voters who support an autocracy should lose their gun rights is flawed.

Stripping rights based on beliefs undermines democratic values. The notion that the majority of voters in this past election were advocates for someone who doesn't believe in the Constitution is silliness. Yes, he is a nut-job, but we have got to believe checks and balances will provide some guide rails to restrain the orange man. Those voters voted for other reasons, I believe–not that I ascribe to that line of reasoning. Again, preserving democracy is better achieved by enhancing civic education and promoting informed engagement, not by selectively curbing constitutional freedoms. Protecting everyone's rights is what matters in our democracy.

Don't go advocating for such silliness. Sit back in your respective rockers and sip some iced tea. Four years is all you have to wait and then a new dawn should help knock some sense back into 'mericans.

 

[dmallord]

[/thread]

Both of you should take your belittling brand of amusement somewhere else.

 

[RoryN]

The notion that the majority of voters in this past election were advocates for someone who doesn't believe in the Constitution is silliness.

Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution
​

"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution...” - Trump

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html

¯\_(ツ)_/¯​

 

[TastySuckToy]

Both of you should take your belittling brand of amusement somewhere else.

And if we don't, you'll...what? Cry?

 

[RoryN]

Looks like someone posted "[/thread]" without understanding the concept.

https://i.imgur.com/lNTRzXA.gif

 

[dmallord]

Trump calls for the termination of the Constitution​

​

"A Massive Fraud of this type and magnitude allows for the termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, even those found in the Constitution...” - Trump

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/03/politics/trump-constitution-truth-social/index.html

¯\_(ツ)_/¯​

2022? Well, as Trumpians have said, "He didn't say that. And if he did, that's not what he meant by it. And if he did...

Hey, today's election was free and fair. Ask him. So, no fraud or stolen election means no suspension of the Constitution by default.

You believe he really could pull off the suspension of the Constitution? Not me. He is an idiot, but even an idiot has someone looking after him.

 

[dmallord]

And if we don't, you'll...what? Cry?

Would it help add to your sick humor?

 

[MiaBabe23]

2022? Well, as Trumpians have said, "He didn't say that. And if he did, that's not what he meant by it. And if he did...

Hey, today's election was free and fair. Ask him. So, no fraud or stolen election means no suspension of the Constitution by default.

You believe he really could pull off the suspension of the Constitution? Not me. He is an idiot, but even an idiot has someone looking after him.

There’s so much naivety and denial of reality in what you say, I wonder if what you’re saying is a parody? And apologies for seeming rude if not, I haven’t seen your comments much before, it’s how they’re seeming…

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Excellent point. And excellent thread topic.

Everyone should reread the Preamble to the Constitution to understand its purpose. The second amendment serves only to fend off autocracy, not to establish it within our borders.

I’ll bite, how would 2A do something to prevent autocracy in the modern era?

 

[Politruk]

Poli, as originally intended, the Second Amendment was about empowering citizens for a 'well-regulated militia' to protect against external threats and tyranny—and surely not meant to justify insurrection. However, the Constitution is a living document, and court cases like Heller have evolved this understanding to include individual rights, thus complicating Second Amendment interpretations. As such, the Second Amendment rights are no longer

in any way relevant or necessary.

 

[Yarglenurp]

Poli, as originally intended, the Second Amendment was about empowering citizens for a 'well-regulated militia' to protect against external threats and tyranny—and surely not meant to justify insurrection. However, the Constitution is a living document, and court cases like Heller have evolved this understanding to include individual rights, thus complicating Second Amendment interpretations. As such, the Second Amendment rights are no longer just about militias or strictly national defense, are they?

Rory, from one oldtimer to another, you've got to know the notion that voters who support an autocracy should lose their gun rights is flawed.

Stripping rights based on beliefs undermines democratic values. The notion that the majority of voters in this past election were advocates for someone who doesn't believe in the Constitution is silliness. Yes, he is a nut-job, but we have got to believe checks and balances will provide some guide rails to restrain the orange man. Those voters voted for other reasons, I believe–not that I ascribe to that line of reasoning. Again, preserving democracy is better achieved by enhancing civic education and promoting informed engagement, not by selectively curbing constitutional freedoms. Protecting everyone's rights is what matters in our democracy.

Don't go advocating for such silliness. Sit back in your respective rockers and sip some iced tea. Four years is all you have to wait and then a new dawn should help knock some sense back into 'mericans.

Yeah… uh, so this is probably why Trump managed to get so far, and why he’s going to go a lot further.

If you want to see democracy in action, then you get Trump. He represents the “will” of the people… a man who embodies the basest of human instincts. The average person is not good. The average American cares less for the institutions of America than he would for the price of eggs. He would burn down the FDA if he believed it’d make gasoline cheaper.

And so Trump is America, at its core. A chaotic man-child, who rapes, lies, and enables the worst impulses in the worst people. For decades, the leaders of America had known they could not let true yokels decide the fate of this great nation and chosen, in their own enlightened self-interest, to restrict America’s choices to the relatively sane. But somewhere along the way, the republican just had to buy their own bullshit about “democracy” and now we get “democracy.”

In a sense, Trump will do a great service to America by hollowing it out completely. He will fuck shit up so badly that no one will ever trust American institutes for at least 20 years afterwards. He will keep people divided and unable to form a meaningful form of government long after he is gone. And from those ashes, the technocrat faction will create something sustainable, free from the droning of imbeciles who would burn down their own house to see the pretty lights.

 

[RoryN]

If you want to see democracy in action, then you get Trump. He represents the “will” of the people… a man who embodies the basest of human instincts. The average person is not good. The average American cares less for the institutions of America than he would for the price of eggs. He would burn down the FDA if he believed it’d make gasoline cheaper.

And so Trump is America, at its core. A chaotic man-child, who rapes, lies, and enables the worst impulses in the worst people. For decades, the leaders of America had known they could not let true yokels decide the fate of this great nation and chosen, in their own enlightened self-interest, to restrict America’s choices to the relatively sane. But somewhere along the way, the republican just had to buy their own bullshit about “democracy” and now we get “democracy.”

^^^
Yes to all of this.

Your vote is your voice. Say it until it sinks in.

 

[coati]

I’ll bite, how would 2A do something to prevent autocracy in the modern era?

In the modern era, not much.

The paradox is that an autocrat has now used 2A propaganda to get suckers to ESTABLISH autocracy.

Hitler eventually had to disarm and kill off the brownshirts after he gained control over the German military.

Today's keyboard "militia men" in Amerika would get the same treatment. Most of them have already identified themselves on line.

 

[Saint_Ann]

Both of you should take your belittling brand of amusement somewhere else.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

 

[Politruk]

And from those ashes, the technocrat faction will create something sustainable, free from the droning of imbeciles who would burn down their own house to see the pretty lights.

Do you see any signs of the existence of this faction?

 

[dmallord]

There’s so much naivety and denial of reality in what you say, I wonder if what you’re saying is a parody? And apologies for seeming rude if not, I haven’t seen your comments much before, it’s how they’re seeming…

No need to apologize. I've been accused of having a dry wit, and thanks to our President-Elect, I've been able to emulate his 'weave of thoughts' into my words–to use the dimwit's term. Others have claimed I am naive or an asshole, depending on how unfortunate they are in sparing with me over their truculent efforts to pick apart what I say. And yes, today is tongue-in-cheek time that you are picking up on.

This thread is more or less my acceptance of how things stand at the moment. Sort of like the duck in the pond analogy: it glides serenely on the surface but beneath the surface its legs are churning furiously to create that image of serenity.

I've been posting for about a year in the Political section. Prior to that, I spent my time writing and visiting the nicer side of the forums.

Thank you for asking.

 

[dmallord]

in any way relevant or necessary.

My condolences for your loss of relevancy. I hope you find a replacement worthy of your desires.

 

[dmallord]

Yeah… uh, so this is probably why Trump managed to get so far, and why he’s going to go a lot further.

If you want to see democracy in action, then you get Trump. He represents the “will” of the people… a man who embodies the basest of human instincts. The average person is not good. The average American cares less for the institutions of America than he would for the price of eggs. He would burn down the FDA if he believed it’d make gasoline cheaper.

And so Trump is America, at its core. A chaotic man-child, who rapes, lies, and enables the worst impulses in the worst people. For decades, the leaders of America had known they could not let true yokels decide the fate of this great nation and chosen, in their own enlightened self-interest, to restrict America’s choices to the relatively sane. But somewhere along the way, the republican just had to buy their own bullshit about “democracy” and now we get “democracy.”

In a sense, Trump will do a great service to America by hollowing it out completely. He will fuck shit up so badly that no one will ever trust American institutes for at least 20 years afterwards. He will keep people divided and unable to form a meaningful form of government long after he is gone. And from those ashes, the technocrat faction will create something sustainable, free from the droning of imbeciles who would burn down their own house to see the pretty lights.

That was some dark stuff, brother. Feel better with that off your chest? I would. Now that's it's all out. How are you proposing we work together to avoid the technocrat factions from burning down our houses?