Ambivalence

[TheEarl]

I've often been accused of having too large a vocabulary and even worse: of using it proflicately (sic). People have complained of words like coruscating, recalcitrant and arse in my stories because they don't know what they mean.

So here's my question: Am I wise to use the word ambivalent (meaning feeling very strongly about two conflicting things or feeling very strong opposing emotions) when most people will take it as meaning not caring about something?

The Earl

 

[Madame Manga]

Use the words that come to you. Write up to your ideal audience rather than dumbing down. Asking more of your readers makes them rise to the occasion, if they are capable of rising; those who are not capable are not the kind of readers you want to cater to. Ignore the lowest common denominator as long as you know you are making yourself clear. I am not, of course, talking about deliberate obfuscation or snooty sesquipedalianism. ;-) The right word is the right word.

But if you feel the need, send complainers a link to an online dictionary. It takes less time to look up a word than it does to compose feedback complaining about it.

MM

 

[jon.hayworth]

Earl,
Earl
I take the view that:

although, (in an ideal world), we should write in the style and using the words that come naturally to us, this is not an ideal world.
Therefore you have to ask yourself why you are writing, and who are you publishing for - yourself or your audience?
If you are writing and publishing for yourself use the words you want to use, the style you want to use, in short do it for yourself!
If you want to entertain, your audience whilst maybe enlightening them a little, - and you want votes do not write so your readership have to read with a dictionary in one hand.

In your example you could say something like "She felt ambivalent about what she was experiencing as the lash caused the contradictory sensations of intense pain and an equal and opposite degree of pleasure." - This is thinking spontaneously as I write - but in this case you introduce a variation of the meaning of "Ambivalent" and an explanation.

Sorry the example is in BDSM genre but it was the easiest and I am working on a full-length Novel so my mind is stuck in gear.

A Merry Xmas everyone,

jon

 

[Sabledrake]

Earl -- I'd say, by all means, use whatever words occur to you and fit the story. Our job as fiction writers may be more to entertain than anything else, but throwing in a little education never hurt anybody

I've gotten quite a few e-mails from readers who appreciate increasing their vocabulary. It's different now that I'm also trying my hand at a kid's book, since I do want to challenge the little readers while still making sure they can actually _read_ the darn thing.

Sabledrake

 

[Angeline]

Use your words!

Since I was a`girl I've been accused of using an overly large vocabulary to impress, and have been thought--by some anyway--to be lording it over them. This is not true. I'm a reader, as is my immediate and extended family. I'm lucky to have grown up in an environment that may have poor by others' standards in many ways, but was always rich in literacy. If I try to speak differently, to "dumb down" my vocabulary, I sound like a stilted idiot--not because that's inherently bad, but because it's unnatural for me. The way I speak is part of who I am and Earl, if that is who you are, you should, well, be who you are. You may lose a few people who are unwilling to look words up, but wouldn't you rather have the readers here who appreciate what you can do with language?

P.S. And that's an interesting AV you have. I've never seen anyone read that way before. It sort of looks like braille.

 

[KillerMuffin]

No, you shouldn't use ambivelent that way because the people you want to understand what you're writing will not get the meaning and they won't look it up. They'll think apathetic and that's not the impression you want to make. You're trying to elicit a specific image or feelings in your reader and you should use words that bring those images or feelings out. Story-writing is not the place to stretch a vocabulary because they're going to be jerking, not looking things up in the dictionary.

You shouldn't use your own venacular at all, anyway. Or your own normal manner of speech. Not unless you're writing an essay or an autobiography. You should write from the character's POV and if you're like most writers, that character is not going to be you. Not completely. Similar, but not you.

Why? Because it helps the reader get into your stories more if the narrator/characters come alive like real people. Stretching vocabulary isn't a bad thing. However, you must have some idea what you want your reader to get from your writing, eg, better vocab, deeper understanding of the human condition, sticky keyboard. Your word choice, along with the characters, setting, plot, action, all goes toward acheiving that end. And you must make your word choices accordingly.

Forget the words "write for" and utilize the words "write to." Who are you writing to? Yourself or reader? If you're writing to your reader, don't use ambiguous words. If you're writing to yourself, use whatever makes you happy.

Here's some examples from a few different stories of my own. Go through your own stories and see if the character's traits come out in your writing more than your own traits do.


He lifted me easily, I am no lightweight, carried me to the bed, and lay me amidst the petals. Their fragrance enveloped me and Mr. Jordan’s kisses stole my breath. He stood and hastily removed his own garments, showing them only a modicum of concern. He returned to the bed and covered me with his body. It was shocking in it’s intimacy. Mr. Jordan and I had never before been naked together. It was a sensation I will not soon forget.
-------------------------------
Smugly, he put the handcuffs on then arched a cocky brow in her direction. She smiled at him. Her hands went to the buttons on her blouse. Hot damn, it was about time. Stone Cold never had it so good. There went one, then two, oooh yeah, show me the money, baby, show me the money. Fu-u-u-u-ck yeah. The blouse hit the floor and she wiggled out of her skirt. White panties and a white bra. They were satin and lacy, to boot. Not that cotton stuff he used to see when he drilled a hole in the bathroom and watched his mom get dressed. Damn but the bitch was stacked.
-------------------------------
Abbie scratched her ass and then settled deeper into the worn couch. Crumbs from her pretzels irritated her thighs, but she made no move to brush them off. She nursed the dregs of her diet coke and waited for Phyllis to tell Sierra that Phillip was really her half-brother's cousin, not her twin brother. She snapped up another pretzel and grinned evilly. Phyllis's revenge would be short-lived. Sierra would have the last laugh because Sierra carried Phillip's baby.

 

[Un-registered]

People have complained of words like ... arse in my stories ...

Tell them it is a synonym for elbow, since the complainer obviously doesn't know the difference.

 

[M.A.Thompson]

Earl. I believe you and I have visited this road before, if only briefly in the SDC, but in the few formal writing classes I have taken - all those years ago in college - I was always taught to avoid the Million Dollar (Pound, excuse me) words as more often than not they come across as forced or patronizing to the reader.

However, I do believe there exists a place for such language in literature but perhaps what we write here at Literotica is not it. I am not sure coruscating or recalcitrant necessarily belong in a story that also features such vocabulary as cumshot and tits.

Myself, I would rather have my reader reaching for his dick rather than his dictionary.

 

[Angeline]

Myself, I would rather have my reader reaching for his dick rather than his dictionary.

M.A., I understand what you and Killer Muffin are saying, and effective characters have voices that are consistent and maybe very different from our own. Still, does erotica have to be limited to three syllable words? What about Anais Nin or Marguarite Duras? Yes, I know to be successful, one must write to the audience, but if everyone assumes the audience has limited vocabulary, then we never have another Nin.....

Just thinking aloud here, and wondering how others feel about this.

 

[Weird Harold]

Still, does erotica have to be limited to three syllable words? ... if everyone assumes the audience has limited vocabulary, then we never have another Nin.....

No erotica doesn't have to be limited to thre syllable words, but four syllables and up should be used with care.

Authors should use the vocabulary that they are comfortable with and is appropriate to the story. Authors should NOT stretch their vocabulary to the breaking point by trying to "sound educated."

A properly used word that I have to look up or deduce a meaning from context is much preferable to a word that I know means something entirely different than the author thought.

 

[Angeline]

Harold

I am starting to believe you really do have all the answers, lol. Thanks for that articulate response. It summed up what I was cogitating over--that writing should not sound overly limited or dumbed down any more than it should that the writer is trying to show off her superior vocabulary. I think people often have problems expressing themselves in writing because they mistakenly believe there's some specific way "writers" are supposed to sound.

 

[Un-registered]

Still, does erotica have to be limited to three syllable words?

I dont unnerstand them long words like "marmalade".

 

[TheEarl]

Thanks all. Have decided not to use it. There's no danger in me toning down my language (I can barely write using my own wordstore, let alone go and try to use someone else's); words like coruscating and recalcitrant will still be there, because I don't know any better. But even I thought that ambivalent meant apathy until a year or two ago and everyone I know thinks I'm a walking dictionary. I don't know why. Probably because I regard them as floccinaucinilipilificatious (Yes, that is a real word).

Quick question though. Anyone who doesn't know what recalcitrant means, read these sentences (actually part of a story I'm writing) and see whether you can understand my meaning. I'm always unrepentent about my 4 syllable words because I think that, properly written, they'll add flavour for those who understand and be ignored and read past by those who don't.

The first second of consciousness was spent grasping for the off switch and trying to extract what day it was from her recalcitrant memory. She didn't want to be up this early if it wasn't a school day.

MAT: It's 'million dollar word' over in England too. 'Million pound' sounds wrong.

Angeline: I'm not sure its that Weird Harold has more answers than anyone else. It's more that he's the only one who can express himself well enough to tell other people.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

Angeline: Read the Sig. It's Red Dwarf.

Again, only Chicklet and Sabledrake will get this joke.

The Earl

 

[jfinn]

My own vocabulary has more than its share of esoteric words and when I'm writing I don't stop to worry about how the reader is going to respond to them. But, when I go back and edit I invariably replace them with more user friendly words. I don't think of this as dumbing down anymore than I think I'm missing out on giving the masses a much needed vocabulary lesson. What I do feel is that if I would keep these words in my story I run the risk of breaking my readers concentration and that I don't want to do.

Anytime you take the reader "out" of the story you are chancing that they may never get back into it. I know myself, that if I start thinking about the mechanics of a story I'm not going to enjoy it as much as I would if it flowed well enough that I thought of nothing but the action on the page.

So unless one of my characters is a lit professor from Harvard, I woudn't risk it.

Jayne

 

[Octavian]

Four-syllable words

Earl

I use what I consider to be the most suitable word, irrespective of whether or not it is user friendly. That doesn't mean a dictionary is required in order to read my story---usually the sense of the word can be gleaned from the context.

I wrote the story for myself and it was much later that I decided to post on Literotica and to share it. I stress that I am sharing it, I am not writing it for other readers, or writing for financial gain. If I were, then it might be different.


BTW I took recalcitrant to mean unwilling or unreliable. The Concise Oxford states 'not susceptible to control'.

My occasionally intellectually challenging, but nonetheless erotic, albeit rather long story

Edited to remove the original over enthusiastic and subsequently rather boastful claim by the author about the merits of his story.

 

[karmadog]

James Kilpatrick covered this very subject not too long ago.

Here is his article.

For those who aren't familiar with him, he writes a column called 'The Writer's Art' which is syndicated to many newspapers in the US. There are many other useful articles by him at this site.

 

[Madame Manga]

I read the article--thanks for the link.

"Faineant" was the only so-called esoteric word he mentioned that I could not define on sight, and I know I've seen it here and there. Exiguous, trope, avatar? I learned those in an American public junior high school. In the twentieth century. The article depressed me no end. ;-)

But I think I do know better than to use those in a story without at least giving them context. Those fall in the show-off category; any character that spoke or thought too many words of that kind would come across as precious and snooty, to put it mildly--he DID mention William F. Buckley, right? ;-)

MM

 

[Weird Harold]

...Exiguous, trope, avatar? ... Those fall in the show-off category; any character that spoke or thought too many words of that kind would come across as precious and snooty, to put it mildly...

Which brings up the characterization aspect of using big words -- they are an easy and economical way to define a character as "precious and snooty."

Deliberate misuse of "big words" in dialogue can help define a character as an "intelectual wannabe."

Far too many authors use the same laguange ability level for all characters, instead of using the language differences to "show, not tell" who and what their characters are.

 

[Angeline]

It's just a matter of good judgment. Tossing out five dollar words for the sake of showing your great vocabulary is just silly, and even I know enough not to alienate readers that way. But I think the point I was debating earlier (at least in my mind, lol), is that one can go overboard, becoming so concerned that the resulting text is bland and boring. To me, good writing has a lot to do with finding the precise words to express what I want to say. They don't necessarily have to be "big" words, but when you're aiming for precision, it's likely you'll be using at least some fairly esoteric (to a general audience) terms. The way to make this work is contextual clues: i.e., let the context of the surrounding words clarify meaning.

Still, Harold's point that a story in which every character sounds the same is tedius, is very well taken.

 

[Madame Manga]

It's just a matter of good judgment. Tossing out five dollar words for the sake of showing your great vocabulary is just silly, and even I know enough not to alienate readers that way.
But I think the point I was debating earlier (at least in my mind, lol), is that one can go overboard, becoming so concerned that the resulting text is bland and boring.

Great post; that's it in a nutshell. Showing off always shows, and gives your reader a very different impression from the one you intended.

But purging your writing of six-bit words for fear of scaring readers away will make you sound like one of those sanitized academic 'reading excerpts': no flavor, no edge, no voice.

I remember being forced to read abridged and simplified versions of short stories I had already read in the original; this was in third grade, as so-called enrichment, because I had already finished the class material and needed something to do. I wanted to vomit on my little Formica-topped desk. ;-) Eventually they gave me some sixth-grade textbooks instead, thank God. I'm sure many people here can recount similar experiences!

MM

 

[TheEarl]

Nice new av MM. Is that you in the pic?

I don't just toss in the 5 dollar words; I'd actually use them IRL. However I don't think I've ever used them for a character's speech, only in descriptions. I don't think you could really distinguish my characters from their speech; they may be a bit generic.

Hmm. Something to work on.

The Earl

 

[karmadog]

It's literotica, not idiorotica. If the word is right, it's right. Still, I agree that if a simpler word that carries the same meaning is available, it should be used.

I don't think that theEarl should avoid using the word 'ambivalent' (which isn't that difficult a word) out of fear that someone may or may not misunderstand it.

 

[OT]

I just started reading "McNally's Puzzle" by Lawrence Sanders.
I'm not finished, so I'm not ready to recommend the book, but I can easily recommend it as an example of effectively using a "robust vocabulary".

A quick browse of only the first few pages yields these unusual words:
foofaraw
simpatico
inexorable
stolid
suffuses
raucous
commodious
cacophony

It's not erotica, but is a very good example of using "big" words in a context that works. (McNally is a private investigator narrating his adventures.)

Next time you are loitering in the bookstore, his books might be worth a peek.