All subs...... read this!!!

[Ropebunny]

I think that we are basically describing the same problem from different angles. In the end the problem is that many people have a difficult time inventing themselves in a real personal interaction with someone where the only (or mostly) only source of communications is text. If you want to same lack of imagination or lack of empathy... frankly I think both are correct from different angles. Ive witnessed other people make it work and have a wonderful emotional relationship that starts online. The difference seems IMO and experience to effort. Many people dont want to put in much effort. In many cases that is a common denominator why people look for a relationship online. They dont want to go through the heart ache and effort to look for that rare person locally...

Why do some struggle and others don’t? If it’s an issue of effort, what explains that? Is it not more likely that those that can’t communicate effectively and with empathy online probably suffer the same deficits in the ‘real world’?

I’ve always believed that written communication reveals our core essence in some ways. There really isn’t anywhere to hide, no nonverbal information that can be gaslighted or misconstrued. Is it possible that some people primarily communicate via those means, and are lost when that doesn’t translate across into written words? Does writing make the antisocial and narcissistic players of our world more readily identifiable, and if so does this even actually matter?

Sorry for the big question dump, but I haven’t got answers for this.

 

[Master_Doctor]

Why do some struggle and others don’t? If it’s an issue of effort, what explains that? Is it not more likely that those that can’t communicate effectively and with empathy online probably suffer the same deficits in the ‘real world’?

I’ve always believed that written communication reveals our core essence in some ways. There really isn’t anywhere to hide, no nonverbal information that can be gaslighted or misconstrued. Is it possible that some people primarily communicate via those means, and are lost when that doesn’t translate across into written words? Does writing make the antisocial and narcissistic players of our world more readily identifiable, and if so does this even actually matter?

Sorry for the big question dump, but I haven’t got answers for this.

Well, why do some struggle while others dont. The simple answer is that we are all unique individuals. With different gifts and abilities. There is firm evidence to show that people (generally new millennials) who have lived on Smart Phones, tablets, etc and havent had the experiences of learning social ques have a much more difficult time expressing and determining emotional and social connections via txt/ online. We have all seen parents give their children a tablet of smart phone at dinner so they can have dinner in peace and quiet. However, this robs the child of the crucial ability to learn social norms. Its mind-boggling how much a child learns from daily meals with family engaging with each other socially.

Written communication, I agree, CAN be amazingly beautiful and can reveal out core essences. IF that communication is truthful and written by a skilled and educated writer. Very few of us can inspire or open out eyes to the human condition as Hemingway for instance. Not all written word is truthful. Most people embellish when writing online etc.

Psychology also shows us that there is a wealth of communication that our brains decipher from body language. Far more than most of us understand. You walk down the street and you find one person... for no unenforceable reason stunningly attractive... or another you feel an intense sense of danger... that is your mind reading entirely by body language. You sub-conscience mind is way a head of you in reading the intent and viability of another person. Is body language perfect. No. But it gives your brain incalculable amounts of information that you frankly, dont get any other way.

If I read you right, yes there are people who learn better visually and others by written word. Body language is on a completely different wavelength.

For the record, IMO we are having a respectful discussion. I respect and see you as an intelligent person and am enjoying our discourse as such.

In my experience. Some of my earlier points are based on the fact that ive seen plenty of evidence of a lot of people who only want one thing when they seek someone online. (both men and women and both Dom and sub). These people are the ones I think of when I express my opinion that they tend to be lazy and unimaginative. Granted we all have different levels of imagination and creativity. In my own history, I had a successful online/ txt M/s relationship for 4 years. The reasons it was successful was because both parties were honest, wanted a real relationship and kept coming up with creative and imaginative ways to express ourselves and keeping that connection intact. After those 4 years, I moved to Seattle to be with her and married her a year later. So We have been married 8 years and ive owned her for 15.

I hope this helps. Never apologize for asking honest real questions! I will always do my best to respectfully answer them to the best of my ability and expereince.

 

[Ropebunny]

Well, why do some struggle while others dont. The simple answer is that we are all unique individuals. With different gifts and abilities. There is firm evidence to show that people (generally new millennials) who have lived on Smart Phones, tablets, etc and havent had the experiences of learning social ques have a much more difficult time expressing and determining emotional and social connections via txt/ online. We have all seen parents give their children a tablet of smart phone at dinner so they can have dinner in peace and quiet. However, this robs the child of the crucial ability to learn social norms. Its mind-boggling how much a child learns from daily meals with family engaging with each other socially.

Written communication, I agree, CAN be amazingly beautiful and can reveal out core essences. IF that communication is truthful and written by a skilled and educated writer. Very few of us can inspire or open out eyes to the human condition as Hemingway for instance. Not all written word is truthful. Most people embellish when writing online etc.

Psychology also shows us that there is a wealth of communication that our brains decipher from body language. Far more than most of us understand. You walk down the street and you find one person... for no unenforceable reason stunningly attractive... or another you feel an intense sense of danger... that is your mind reading entirely by body language. You sub-conscience mind is way a head of you in reading the intent and viability of another person. Is body language perfect. No. But it gives your brain incalculable amounts of information that you frankly, dont get any other way.

If I read you right, yes there are people who learn better visually and others by written word. Body language is on a completely different wavelength.

For the record, IMO we are having a respectful discussion. I respect and see you as an intelligent person and am enjoying our discourse as such.

In my experience. Some of my earlier points are based on the fact that ive seen plenty of evidence of a lot of people who only want one thing when they seek someone online. (both men and women and both Dom and sub). These people are the ones I think of when I express my opinion that they tend to be lazy and unimaginative. Granted we all have different levels of imagination and creativity. In my own history, I had a successful online/ txt M/s relationship for 4 years. The reasons it was successful was because both parties were honest, wanted a real relationship and kept coming up with creative and imaginative ways to express ourselves and keeping that connection intact. After those 4 years, I moved to Seattle to be with her and married her a year later. So We have been married 8 years and ive owned her for 15.

I hope this helps. Never apologize for asking honest real questions! I will always do my best to respectfully answer them to the best of my ability and expereince.

Thanks for your response. I hadn’t intended that question dump to be systematically answered as such, was more so just to get thoughts of my head and see if anyone was on a similar wavelength. I may have been somewhat disingenuous in my last sentence of my previous post. I do think I have answers, as we all do. It’s just that for all those thoughts, in all actuality the true answers will always allude us - forever are we doomed to experience subjective reality.

While our brief discussion has been respectful I do feel a sense of reticence in response to your reply, which would take me a while to explore and would probably be somewhat uncomplimentary to you so I think I’ll disengage at this point. Perhaps we’ll feel on more equal footing in future discussions.

 

[PaxNurgle]

It sounds like, after reading through all this, that the key is that many people who identify as "Submissive" want very different things out of a relationship, and many dominants seeking submissives may want very different things out of a relationship than the submissive. Because it seems, being submissive means different things to different people.

As mentioned by many other people, communication up front about what you are seeking out of a relationship, both in your personal profile and in your response, is the key to being honest and genuine.
Some just want a kinky play partner. Some want a long lasting meaningful and romantic relationship in the context of D/S, kink, and power exchange. Some dominants only want a slave- in the classic, Greco/Roman sense, with fetish and sex play being playing a minor role, if any. Some dominants only want a sugar daddy to shower them with money gifts, and some submissives only want a domme to shower them with... okay well I'll just stop there.

Open, honest and upfront communication about what you are seeking, and being honest with yourself as to what you are looking for, will avoid the accusations of being a "fake" this or that.

 

[edontario559]

Well this is a lively thread. New people with the attitude of 'do me' exist across the D/s spectrum. It's much better understood with men who want to be submissive to a mistress but is actually just as common among women who want to be submissive.

My video contribution (and I think gold dust at summing up an issue )
https://youtu.be/drcTRzO2wMk

I wish there was one for someone giving a self proclaimed title and honorific because it's just as bad.

This is a great video, and does a good job at making the point.

Back in the day when you could go to a restaurant, if you looked around you'd see some couples chatting at a table, yet others not talking very much.

Which table had the "real couple?" Which one was the "real relationship?"

Exactly.

Even without DS, the range of human behavior is nearly infinite.

I have found a very reliable "indicator" when it comes to BDSM: what porn do you watch when you are alone? Do you search for the various Japanese binding types, or do you search for a woman being cropped? Flogged? Caned? A man torturing his own cock, or binding his balls?

Do you look for Dr. Lomp videos, when you're alone, or do you prefer video's of throat fucking?

Yes, it depends upon the mood that you're in, but even so... there are patterns. There are preferences.

Ultimately you are looking for someone who shares your general preferences, but also have a few preferences that intrigue you... but don't repel you.

If Pervie Pixie doesn't make you wet, then you probably don't want to find someone who is looking to go in that direction.

Does that make them, or you, "more or less Dom/sub?"

Seriously, who cares?

This isn't about determining what banner you fly; it's about finding someone who is compatible with you and your kink. You find them attractive in the general sense, first. Are they clean? As successful as you require? Tats, or none? Tall/short/don't care?

All of the normal things, and then...

what kinds are they into? Are these the kinds of things that, when you are alone, you watch and cum to?

I think it's really that simple. That video adds a fantastic twist to it, too, but in general? Find what you are into, and don't care about the label.

 

[AnnieLit]

This is a great video, and does a good job at making the point.

Back in the day when you could go to a restaurant, if you looked around you'd see some couples chatting at a table, yet others not talking very much.

Which table had the "real couple?" Which one was the "real relationship?"

Exactly.

Even without DS, the range of human behavior is nearly infinite.

I have found a very reliable "indicator" when it comes to BDSM: what porn do you watch when you are alone? Do you search for the various Japanese binding types, or do you search for a woman being cropped? Flogged? Caned? A man torturing his own cock, or binding his balls?

Do you look for Dr. Lomp videos, when you're alone, or do you prefer video's of throat fucking?

Yes, it depends upon the mood that you're in, but even so... there are patterns. There are preferences.

Ultimately you are looking for someone who shares your general preferences, but also have a few preferences that intrigue you... but don't repel you.

If Pervie Pixie doesn't make you wet, then you probably don't want to find someone who is looking to go in that direction.

Does that make them, or you, "more or less Dom/sub?"

Seriously, who cares?

This isn't about determining what banner you fly; it's about finding someone who is compatible with you and your kink. You find them attractive in the general sense, first. Are they clean? As successful as you require? Tats, or none? Tall/short/don't care?

All of the normal things, and then...

what kinds are they into? Are these the kinds of things that, when you are alone, you watch and cum to?

I think it's really that simple. That video adds a fantastic twist to it, too, but in general? Find what you are into, and don't care about the label.

Nice porn video test with one exception -- almost all men watch porn, but many (most?) women do not. I am yet to find a heterosexual D/s porn that I would not turn off in 3 seconds. Stills, on the other hand...

Update: just realized that I must really like stills if links to my collections are right in my signature. I don't remember why I put them there, but there they are. LOL.

 

[edontario559]

Nice porn video test with one exception -- almost all men watch porn, but many (most?) women do not. I am yet to find a heterosexual D/s porn that I would not turn off in 3 seconds. Stills, on the other hand...

Stills work. So does the written word. Even voyeuristic preferences, although to get to that point you kind of have to first cross the line of "we'll be together at a scene," which is a lot more of a step than sharing links to videos/stills/postings that you like.

Moreover, I'd venture that your choice of media would, in and of itself, provide information about what kind of lover (not sub or Dom, per se) you'll be. What your preferences are.

 

[AnnieLit]

Moreover, I'd venture that your choice of media would, in and of itself, provide information about what kind of lover (not sub or Dom, per se) you'll be. What your preferences are.

I don't think so... Most likely it has to do with who shoots most of the porn and who is the intended audience. This industry is very male dominated, so it is not surprising that what men shoot for men might not really speak to a woman.

With stills it's different, because first of all there are more female photographers than film directors, but more importantly there are more different styles in taking pictures than in shooting a film (or at least a porn film). With stills it is possible to have just a small detail in the frame and the rest the viewer is free to imagine any way they want. But with videos what you see is what you get, in most cases there is not much room for imagination left.

 

[edontario559]

These days? There is an almost infinite amount of porn, for whatever you care to search for.

I'm sticking with "your preference is a revelation about you" more than it is "if only your scene was available in live action."

Just using Yahoo or Bing opens you up to a tsunami of possibilities, and those are just the obvious starting points. xHamster, PornHub, etc. It is astounding how many videos there are, and more every day.

Male Dom, Female Domme, Japanese binding, spousal abuse, extreme, tickling, etc.

You name it, and they'll whisk it right up to you. Amazing what a knowledge graph can do...

 

[AnnieLit]

These days? There is an almost infinite amount of porn, for whatever you care to search for.

I'm sticking with "your preference is a revelation about you" more than it is "if only your scene was available in live action."

Just using Yahoo or Bing opens you up to a tsunami of possibilities, and those are just the obvious starting points. xHamster, PornHub, etc. It is astounding how many videos there are, and more every day.

Male Dom, Female Domme, Japanese binding, spousal abuse, extreme, tickling, etc.

You name it, and they'll whisk it right up to you. Amazing what a knowledge graph can do...

I was not talking about lack of specific topics, sure, any possible scene is there. I was talking about who's POV it is shot from and, ultimately, who was the intended viewer.
Look at any male dom/female sub clip and measure how much time you can see her and how much time camera is on him. Yes, you can see his cock when he is using it, but the rest of him is mostly off camera, or shot from the back, or hidden some other way. Well, me, as a female sub, not that much interested in seeing (fake) emotions of another sub. When actually IN the real life scene, I don't see me, I see Him. But porn for the most part is shot focusing on her. Why? Because of the male audience that wants to be in his place. The same way I don't really need to see that much of the sub, doms (or wannabe doms, does not really matter here) don't need to see face and emotions of another male, they can produce these emotions on their own.

 

[Dreamliner]

I will leave this here for some to consider and contemplate.

https://cdn012.bdsmlr.com/uploads/photos/2020/05/394941/bdsmlr-394941-xdRwcUjCGZ.jpg

 

[AnnieLit]

I will leave this here for some to consider and contemplate.

https://cdn012.bdsmlr.com/uploads/photos/2020/05/394941/bdsmlr-394941-xdRwcUjCGZ.jpg

Yes it is.
I would say it is mostly not about whips and chains, but porn does not even try to show that.

 

[Dreamliner]

Yes it is.
I would say it is mostly not about whips and chains, but porn does not even try to show that.

Unfortunately Annie, porn has given some people a view of BDSM that is not real. It is often the little things in everyday life, the subtle things that count.

 

[AnnieLit]

Unfortunately Annie, porn has given some people a view of BDSM that is not real. It is often the little things in everyday life, the subtle things that count.

Well, for those of us that practice D/s only in the "bedroom" (it might not be exactly a bedroom, a date night will do too, but not the rest of the life), it is not exactly about little everyday things. But even if the submission happens only during some sort of scene with very defined beginning and end, it is still mostly not about whips and chains. Sometimes they might help get in the right mood, but they are never the goal in themselves.

 

[IntheMindset]

If they sat its Real its most likely not

Porn like Hollywood tends to make a composite or caricature of BDSM as well as real life. They are selling a culture in bite size pieces people can accept rather than the whole truth.

The nature of any relationship is determined/defined by those in it and those outside can only venture a guess about it. Perception is not fact

Well, for those of us that practice D/s only in the "bedroom" (it might not be exactly a bedroom, a date night will do too, but not the rest of the life), it is not exactly about little everyday things. But even if the submission happens only during some sort of scene with very defined beginning and end, it is still mostly not about whips and chains. Sometimes they might help get in the right mood, but they are never the goal in themselves.

 

[AnnieLit]

Porn like Hollywood tends to make a composite or caricature of BDSM as well as real life. They are selling a culture in bite size pieces people can accept rather than the whole truth.

The nature of any relationship is determined/defined by those in it and those outside can only venture a guess about it. Perception is not fact

Are you a politician? A priest? Or at least a school teacher?
Why do you feel the need to state the obvious and do it in such a way as if it is a scripture sent by God?

 

[SissySalina]

Porn like Hollywood tends to make a composite or caricature of BDSM as well as real life. They are selling a culture in bite size pieces people can accept rather than the whole truth.

The nature of any relationship is determined/defined by those in it and those outside can only venture a guess about it. Perception is not fact

Sounds exactly like the NEWS Media. They couldn't tell the whole truth for anything.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

I think this .sig is about as clear and concise a response to both the OP and the OP's would-be lady as I can imagine.

The version of me that you created in your mind is not my responsibility.

Made me grin. Thanks, ToPleaseHim.

 

[AnnieLit]

I think this .sig is about as clear and concise a response to both the OP and the OP's would-be lady as I can imagine.

The version of me that you created in your mind is not my responsibility.

Made me grin. Thanks, ToPleaseHim.

IMHO, this applies only to the RL. Online ALL the other side can go by are my written words. If they are creating that image based on a lie, who's fault is that? If I choose not to talk about an important side of me, who's fault that their version of me does not reflect it? Sure, everybody creates an image in their heads that is usually rather far from reality, but what do we base this image on? On the provided words, that are not always true.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I think this .sig is about as clear and concise a response to both the OP and the OP's would-be lady as I can imagine.

Made me grin. Thanks, ToPleaseHim.

Thanks!

IMHO, this applies only to the RL. Online ALL the other side can go by are my written words. If they are creating that image based on a lie, who's fault is that? If I choose not to talk about an important side of me, who's fault that their version of me does not reflect it? Sure, everybody creates an image in their heads that is usually rather far from reality, but what do we base this image on? On the provided words, that are not always true.

People gaslight others online just as easily as they do IRL. Plenty of us here have firsthand experience.

 

[ThePhun1]

As someone that has been in this lifestyle for almost 30 years, I am WELL aware of what I am and who I am. After my wife/sub passed away and I was ready to move on, I placed ads on lifestyle web sites and I was bombarded with fakes and scam artists. The few people that were real that I had contact me had the balls to accuse me of being a "fake" Dom. Their opinion was based on the fact that I am not a sadist, and I did not verbally abuse them or order them around. I wasn't that surprised since this IS the internet and there are more trolls than real people. I always enjoyed reading stories on Lit, so I decided to post an ad on here. I received many responses, but found that I was getting the same thing on here. Oddly enough, I did end up meeting someone on here that claims to be a sub and it wasn't through my ad. She did see my ad, but it wasn't until after she looked at my profile and started reading the few posts I have made. As we got to know each other, I liked the person I was speaking with quite a lot. She was in my age group, and the pictures she sent me are that of a VERY attractive woman. I knew the sexual attraction was there and wanted to see if her inside was just as beautiful. I believe it is, but there was one problem. She kept telling me I didn't "act" like a Dom. The first time we spoke on the phone, she said I didn't "sound" like a Dom. Finally, tonight she flat out accused me of not BEING a Dom. Disappointed could not begin to describe what I felt when she said that. I know what/who I am and there is no one that can take that away from me. I know she is a real person and not a scam artist, and I do believe that she wants to be a sub even though she lacks experience. It did make me wonder, what exactly does a sub look for in a Dom? So, I did some searching online at some of the lifestyle sites to see what qualities other people look for in a Dom that is considered a "good" Dom. Fortunately, I found this article:

https://www.lelo.com/blog/what-qualities-make-a-good-dom/

It is most definitely not the only article that says the same things, but it was probably one of the most articulate. What happens with the woman I have been speaking with remains to be seen, but I have serious doubts that it will go any further. Apparently, I don't fit what she believes a Dom should be. If that is the case, I will continue my search. If you are a sub that is a real person, not a scam artist (I will know right away), and seeking a Dom that fits that description let me know. We can take it from there.

To all subs don't bother reading this

 

[cocktaildress21]

As someone that has been in this lifestyle for almost 30 years, I am WELL aware of what I am and who I am. After my wife/sub passed away and I was ready to move on, I placed ads on lifestyle web sites and I was bombarded with fakes and scam artists. The few people that were real that I had contact me had the balls to accuse me of being a "fake" Dom. Their opinion was based on the fact that I am not a sadist, and I did not verbally abuse them or order them around. I wasn't that surprised since this IS the internet and there are more trolls than real people. I always enjoyed reading stories on Lit, so I decided to post an ad on here. I received many responses, but found that I was getting the same thing on here. Oddly enough, I did end up meeting someone on here that claims to be a sub and it wasn't through my ad. She did see my ad, but it wasn't until after she looked at my profile and started reading the few posts I have made. As we got to know each other, I liked the person I was speaking with quite a lot. She was in my age group, and the pictures she sent me are that of a VERY attractive woman. I knew the sexual attraction was there and wanted to see if her inside was just as beautiful. I believe it is, but there was one problem. She kept telling me I didn't "act" like a Dom. The first time we spoke on the phone, she said I didn't "sound" like a Dom. Finally, tonight she flat out accused me of not BEING a Dom. Disappointed could not begin to describe what I felt when she said that. I know what/who I am and there is no one that can take that away from me. I know she is a real person and not a scam artist, and I do believe that she wants to be a sub even though she lacks experience. It did make me wonder, what exactly does a sub look for in a Dom? So, I did some searching online at some of the lifestyle sites to see what qualities other people look for in a Dom that is considered a "good" Dom. Fortunately, I found this article:

https://www.lelo.com/blog/what-qualities-make-a-good-dom/

It is most definitely not the only article that says the same things, but it was probably one of the most articulate. What happens with the woman I have been speaking with remains to be seen, but I have serious doubts that it will go any further. Apparently, I don't fit what she believes a Dom should be. If that is the case, I will continue my search. If you are a sub that is a real person, not a scam artist (I will know right away), and seeking a Dom that fits that description let me know. We can take it from there.

I have some experience with the opposite: Men who wish they were doms, but really aren't.

Being a dom is an artform. Hardly anyone can manage it. And of course, what I consider a dom needn't match everyone else's ideas.

I have developed a test of sorts. If I ask a dom how he will show me who is boss - pretty much everyone will say something akin to 'I'll shove my cock straight down your throat'.

It is my theory that none of those men have ever tried sub/dom play in real life.

I've heard a few more elegant replies. The one I like best is 'I'll give you a nice taste of my cock - then I'll back off a step, and have you crawl after me so you can suck me some more.'

Being a dom isn't about spanking, or throat fucking, or bondage, or any of that stuff. Being a dom is about a mindset, a confidence. And it's about giving me space to be sub.

I met that guy. And he did take a step back, and when he did, I made every effort to look perfect as I crawled, naked, on my hands and feet, after him. Low to the ground, ass up, legs wide, showing myself off to him.

 

[Ashesh9]

Monotony/sameness of routine BDSM may metamorph B-E-D-R-O-O-M into B-O-R-E-D-O-M

 

[ThePhun1]

Most Doms don’t go on rants about their Domliness. They are what they are, and are secure in that.

Very well said

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I have some experience with the opposite: Men who wish they were doms, but really aren't.

Being a dom is an artform. Hardly anyone can manage it. And of course, what I consider a dom needn't match everyone else's ideas.

I have developed a test of sorts. If I ask a dom how he will show me who is boss - pretty much everyone will say something akin to 'I'll shove my cock straight down your throat'.

It is my theory that none of those men have ever tried sub/dom play in real life.

I've heard a few more elegant replies. The one I like best is 'I'll give you a nice taste of my cock - then I'll back off a step, and have you crawl after me so you can suck me some more.'

Being a dom isn't about spanking, or throat fucking, or bondage, or any of that stuff. Being a dom is about a mindset, a confidence. And it's about giving me space to be sub.

I met that guy. And he did take a step back, and when he did, I made every effort to look perfect as I crawled, naked, on my hands and feet, after him. Low to the ground, ass up, legs wide, showing myself off to him.

Oh, yeah. I’d crawl after that guy for sure.