All subs...... read this!!!

[ToPleaseHim]

She sure doesn’t speak for me.
I’m a feminist and a sub. We talk of this all the time here, trying to find our footing. We are all ourselves.
Let the looky loos have their fun. I know who I am.

Exactly this.

 

[slv4me]

So you understand

First of all, this was NOT someone that is a sub. She wanted to explore the lifestyle. Had she ever said that I was not what she was looking for, not into the same particular kinks, whatever the case may be...... that would be it. I would do the same for a sub that didn't fit what I am looking for. She base this solely on the fact that I am too polite, I was concerned about her feelings, and that I spoke softly to her rather than bark orders. WTF, she isn't even MY sub (if she is or ever will be one at all). I don't bark orders in the first place. My particular style is to lead a person. I want to control their mind and desire. The body will follow. If she wants or needs someone that barks orders, yells all of the time, and abuses her verbally (and possibly physically), then go for it. It's not me. But just because I don't fit what she is looking for, DO NOT FUCKING tell me that I am not a Dom. I have seen way too much of this recently from the fakes, wanna-be's, and trolls. Each D/s relationship is unique and the details are worked out by the participants. I wouldn't dream of telling a sub that she isn't a sub just because she didn't fit what I am looking for. What is wrong with people today?

BTW, I just noticed on your post where you said she ended it. Another false assumption by you. I ended it because I was sick and tired of hearing crap.

 

[slv4me]

Hey Fara

Since you seem to have so much to say, I am going to take a page out of YOUR book. You are an asshole. How does that feel? I know nothing about you. You might be the nicest person, the best sub, hell, you could be the President. However, I am going to make an ASSUMPTION based on a few written lines by you. I won't bother to get to know you and see what type of person you are. Judging by the amount you have to say, I guess my assumption is correct.

 

[AnnieLit]

First of all, this was NOT someone that is a sub. She wanted to explore the lifestyle.
[...]
I wouldn't dream of telling a sub that she isn't a sub just because she didn't fit what I am looking for. What is wrong with people today?

Hm... I really wonder what is wrong with the people today? They can't put a paragraph together where the first sentence does not contradict the last one. What happened to this world of ours?

 

[Acktion]

Damn connectivity issues.

First, I apologize if this has been addressed as my connectivity has been intermittent and I can't freakin' see if something has been said until several hours later when it decides to come back for a short burst and then cutting out again when I try to so much as scroll.

I stand by what I said in my previous post. I could very well have written the original post. In fact, I did write something very similar about three months ago before my provider decided they could act like a bunch of asshats and I could just sit here and take it.

In the original post, the poster had not one negative thing to say about the woman in question. He did not say she was not a real submissive. As a matter of fact, he point-blank said that he still believes that she is a beautiful woman inside as well as out.

No, his "disappointment" was expressed that she point blank said that he was not any sort of Dom. As if she, in her wisdom, gets to make that determination just who and what he is.

And as I said over here three months ago, no one has the right to make that broad, sweeping determination for someone else.

"Not my sub." Fine.

"Not a sub." No.

"Not my Dom." Fine.

"Not a Dom." No.

I'm sure by the time my damn internet comes back for a minute or two and I'm allowed to paste this in, it will be obsolete and irrelevant to a conversation that was rapidly devolving from the original intent (as usual!) anyway.

But, whoever you are, whichever side of the slash you believe you belong on (even you fence straddlers), don't ever allow someone else to tell you what you think, what you feel, who you are. Who you are to them, maybe. But, not who and what you are. Or aren't.

Any road, whatever you need to make yours a good day, do what you need to make it that way.

And fuck whomever can't accept you just as you lay.

 

[Master_Doctor]

As someone that has been in this lifestyle for almost 30 years, I am WELL aware of what I am and who I am. After my wife/sub passed away and I was ready to move on, I placed ads on lifestyle web sites and I was bombarded with fakes and scam artists. The few people that were real that I had contact me had the balls to accuse me of being a "fake" Dom. Their opinion was based on the fact that I am not a sadist, and I did not verbally abuse them or order them around. I wasn't that surprised since this IS the internet and there are more trolls than real people. I always enjoyed reading stories on Lit, so I decided to post an ad on here. I received many responses, but found that I was getting the same thing on here. Oddly enough, I did end up meeting someone on here that claims to be a sub and it wasn't through my ad. She did see my ad, but it wasn't until after she looked at my profile and started reading the few posts I have made. As we got to know each other, I liked the person I was speaking with quite a lot. She was in my age group, and the pictures she sent me are that of a VERY attractive woman. I knew the sexual attraction was there and wanted to see if her inside was just as beautiful. I believe it is, but there was one problem. She kept telling me I didn't "act" like a Dom. The first time we spoke on the phone, she said I didn't "sound" like a Dom. Finally, tonight she flat out accused me of not BEING a Dom. Disappointed could not begin to describe what I felt when she said that. I know what/who I am and there is no one that can take that away from me. I know she is a real person and not a scam artist, and I do believe that she wants to be a sub even though she lacks experience. It did make me wonder, what exactly does a sub look for in a Dom? So, I did some searching online at some of the lifestyle sites to see what qualities other people look for in a Dom that is considered a "good" Dom. Fortunately, I found this article:

https://www.lelo.com/blog/what-qualities-make-a-good-dom/

It is most definitely not the only article that says the same things, but it was probably one of the most articulate. What happens with the woman I have been speaking with remains to be seen, but I have serious doubts that it will go any further. Apparently, I don't fit what she believes a Dom should be. If that is the case, I will continue my search. If you are a sub that is a real person, not a scam artist (I will know right away), and seeking a Dom that fits that description let me know. We can take it from there.

So #1 I feel for you man. Ive seen things like this more often than I care to admit. I keep reminding people that there are fake and wanna be subs as well as Doms. In addition this is also the pitfall to having an online/ Long distance relationship where text, email , phone are the only means of communication. The psych issue is this. When people only communicate via these methods rather than the old school methods of face to face meetings, people have a much more difficult time actually identifying you as a real person. Ive over heard people say often. Ive never met him/her, they really arent a real person. They are only words on a screen to me.

Unfortunately, without touching a person, much less actually seeing them and reading their body language (which the brain and emotions see/react to way more from body language than words ever convey) we have a much more difficult time identifying someone as a real person. As such, our normal good manners and social niceties literally dont connect and go out the window. This is why you see so much more cruel and nasty responses from people online than in person. They simply dont care, because they dont see you as a real person...just words on a screen.

Thankfully, there are people who have the required imagination to see others online as real living and breathing people... sadly these fine people are a minority.

 

[Ropebunny]

So #1 I feel for you man. Ive seen things like this more often than I care to admit. I keep reminding people that there are fake and wanna be subs as well as Doms. In addition this is also the pitfall to having an online/ Long distance relationship where text, email , phone are the only means of communication. The psych issue is this. When people only communicate via these methods rather than the old school methods of face to face meetings, people have a much more difficult time actually identifying you as a real person. Ive over heard people say often. Ive never met him/her, they really arent a real person. They are only words on a screen to me.

Unfortunately, without touching a person, much less actually seeing them and reading their body language (which the brain and emotions see/react to way more from body language than words ever convey) we have a much more difficult time identifying someone as a real person. As such, our normal good manners and social niceties literally dont connect and go out the window. This is why you see so much more cruel and nasty responses from people online than in person. They simply dont care, because they dont see you as a real person...just words on a screen.

Thankfully, there are people who have the required imagination to see others online as real living and breathing people... sadly these fine people are a minority.

It’s not really an imagination issue though is it? That’s a very reductionist view that is easy to throw around to paint others in a negative light. If a person struggles with generating any form of empathetic response to others online that says more about them than about the method of communication in my opinion.

It’s more so that without the non-verbal communication that comes from interacting in person the verbal (in this case written) communication becomes the only manner of connecting. Problem is, we all leave tiny little hints in the things we write and type, little Easter eggs that link to the way we see and feel. We read, and we feel and sometimes get a negative internal response to someone else’s writing. When enough people feel the same, the issue is unlikely to be with those people as individuals and more likely to do with the communicator themselves, the Easter eggs they are hiding.

Reading, rereading, rewriting and soliciting honest feedback of your communications is the best way to figure out what unintended messages others are picking up from your writing. For example, from rereading and reflecting on this response I can see how it could feel unempathetic to those that have struggled with online communications in the past. The writing style could seem arrogant or elitist (and those perceptions could then be applied to the readers image of myself). It might also be that the reader knows this already, either consciously or subconsciously and could feel any number of things based on their previous interactions with this idea.

None of this is right or wrong, it just is. This is the risk we take when communicating - the risk that we may not be understood in the ways we wish to be. It’s a very human pain, to be misunderstood, something that no one tolerates very well or wishes for. I honestly think spending some time reflecting on how others might receive your writing is always well spent, even if the honesty feels a bit painful. Though pain comes growth (though sometimes only in bruises )

 

[slv4me]

To Fara mainly...

Don’t you mean you want to control the body and mind and desire will follow?
The desire is your reward for being good at your job.

I’ve had many people tell me I wasn’t a sub. I always point out, “I’m not your sub, I’m his.”
Many men/women confuse someone who leans submissive sexually as their very own submissive.
Your mistake?
You weren’t her Dom. For whatever reason... chemistry, other men, maybe she wasn’t the same type of sub to your Dom. This is not one size hits all.
So, she says you’re not a Dom at all... why does that bother you?
Own who you are.

Fara and all of the members who replied.......... I want to thank those people that have had similar experiences and understood what I am talking about. This whole thread, my original post, and my replies all really go against my grain. Unfortunately, I needed to take a rare moment to vent after experiencing the same thing over and over on lifestyle sites and Lit. Once again Fara, you don't seem to understand what I am saying. She is NOT a sub, she wants to explore the lifestyle. It's bad enough for an alleged sub to tell someone they are not A Dom (emphasis on "A" Dom, not MY Dom). If she had said I wasn't her type of Dom it would have been a different ballgame altogether. Your attitude and responses also tend to lean towards someone that believes a Dom shouldn't have feelings, should bark orders rather than lead their sub and teach proper behavior, should always be cruel and disrespectful of their sub, and all of the typical things that MOST (not all) subs with even the slightest bit of self-respect would NOT want in their D/s relationship. Certainly, most would not want it 100% of the time. That was the whole reason I posted the link to that article. That article was written by a respected person in the community and explains to people the difference between a "good" Dom and a "bad" Dom. It really does NOT apply to subs that have been/are in the lifestyle and understand what it is about. They already know what is right for them and what to look for in a Dom/Domme. It is directed to the people that CALL themselves subs, but have little or no experience and believe that because I am soft spoken, caring, and I would like to think most, if not all, of the qualities she lists that I am not a "true" Dom. They will say this without knowing me or anything about me, or a real understanding of the dynamic between a Dom and a sub. Although I wouldn't ordinarily do this, I let it build up to the point where I had to vent. Enough was enough. In fact, the ONLY reason I keep responding to your posts is the fact that I saw you are good friends with cookiecat. Even though she might not necessarily agree with me, she understood that Doms are human. That seems to be the mistake that most people who are not familiar with the lifestyle make. Dom's are not perfect and anyone that thinks he/she is needs to get a life. So I vented. Big fucking deal! Get over it and move on. I believe that if you are friends with cookiecat, then you must be a good person regardless of what your responses to me have been. I don't know her, and I am making an assumption strictly based on one reply, but I would have to think that someone that "gets" it so well would have to be a pretty nice person. At any point I am done explaining myself. I am done with this post and this thread (I am sure there are many people that are happy to read that part). I am done with trying to meet people on lifestyle sites and Lit. I had hoped it would speed the process up and make it easier to find someone that shared the same values and needs. One thing I have learned after my sub passed away is that life is very short. It doesn't matter how young or old you are. I wanted to move on and find a suitable match as quickly as possible and I thought the internet would make that process easier than trying to locate someone in the vanilla world. Sadly, I was very wrong.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

Fara and all of the members who replied.......... I want to thank those people that have had similar experiences and understood what I am talking about. This whole thread, my original post, and my replies all really go against my grain. Unfortunately, I needed to take a rare moment to vent after experiencing the same thing over and over on lifestyle sites and Lit. Once again Fara, you don't seem to understand what I am saying. She is NOT a sub, she wants to explore the lifestyle. It's bad enough for an alleged sub to tell someone they are not A Dom (emphasis on "A" Dom, not MY Dom). If she had said I wasn't her type of Dom it would have been a different ballgame altogether. Your attitude and responses also tend to lean towards someone that believes a Dom shouldn't have feelings, should bark orders rather than lead their sub and teach proper behavior, should always be cruel and disrespectful of their sub, and all of the typical things that MOST (not all) subs with even the slightest bit of self-respect would NOT want in their D/s relationship. Certainly, most would not want it 100% of the time. That was the whole reason I posted the link to that article. That article was written by a respected person in the community and explains to people the difference between a "good" Dom and a "bad" Dom. It really does NOT apply to subs that have been/are in the lifestyle and understand what it is about. They already know what is right for them and what to look for in a Dom/Domme. It is directed to the people that CALL themselves subs, but have little or no experience and believe that because I am soft spoken, caring, and I would like to think most, if not all, of the qualities she lists that I am not a "true" Dom. They will say this without knowing me or anything about me, or a real understanding of the dynamic between a Dom and a sub. Although I wouldn't ordinarily do this, I let it build up to the point where I had to vent. Enough was enough. In fact, the ONLY reason I keep responding to your posts is the fact that I saw you are good friends with cookiecat. Even though she might not necessarily agree with me, she understood that Doms are human. That seems to be the mistake that most people who are not familiar with the lifestyle make. Dom's are not perfect and anyone that thinks he/she is needs to get a life. So I vented. Big fucking deal! Get over it and move on. I believe that if you are friends with cookiecat, then you must be a good person regardless of what your responses to me have been. I don't know her, and I am making an assumption strictly based on one reply, but I would have to think that someone that "gets" it so well would have to be a pretty nice person. At any point I am done explaining myself. I am done with this post and this thread (I am sure there are many people that are happy to read that part). I am done with trying to meet people on lifestyle sites and Lit. I had hoped it would speed the process up and make it easier to find someone that shared the same values and needs. One thing I have learned after my sub passed away is that life is very short. It doesn't matter how young or old you are. I wanted to move on and find a suitable match as quickly as possible and I thought the internet would make that process easier than trying to locate someone in the vanilla world. Sadly, I was very wrong.

For those exploring subs who read this thread based on the title, please know that it is perfectly acceptable to be starting new at this. Everyone was new at one point. There are a LOT of asshat “dominants” in this lifestyle, some with glaringly obvious red flags and some whose red flags are very subtle.

Please know:
If a “dom” tells you that you aren’t a sub because you do not meet their definition of what a sub is, leave that person. They are not worth your time.

There are many dominants who would love to help you explore and learn about the lifestyle. There are as many ways to do BDSM as there are people who want to play. It’s okay to be new. It doesn’t mean you can’t label yourself as a sub. We choose our own labels.

Just because someone is a D or S type person does not mean you will be compatible with them. People have much different kinks and preferences. When you find someone whose kinks match yours, it’s a lot of fun.

BDSM requires a lot of communication, just like any relationship ever.

To the OP:

This is a great community. It’s a shame you didn’t try to get to know the Lit BDSM community as you likely could have found some comfort in talking with like minded people here. But, much like you judged a woman to be “NOT a sub” while you were simultaneously offended that she judged you to be “NOT a dom,” you are upset that people on the site are judging you, while you are judging them. Fun times! As someone who came to this page as an exploring, curious, and inexperienced sub, I am grateful that I did find a few people to talk to and two men who really walked me through the lifestyle. I hit the lottery with them. If you want to be successful in meeting someone here or IRL, you likely need to lose the giant chip on your shoulder and open yourself up for self-reflection.

 

[supercollider00]

Couldn't have said it better myself ToPleaseHim

 

[slv4me]

Not you...

Skimmed it, because, paragraphs.

My response is driving you off lit? Good Lord, man. There are many worse people than me, here, but there are also people made of gold- in this forum, and in the Cafe. Surely you can ignore me and interact with others more your speed.
A good Dom (and sub, and, well, adult!) must have patience. Yes, life is short, but life is also about being open.

Your initial post came across badly. I’m not the only one who reacted that way.

Still.

I’m sorry. I shouldn’t have been so flip with my words.

And yes, cookiecat is my best friend.
She puts up with my assholish ways. I’m grateful.

No, not your response. The newbie and wannabe subs that do not know what a Dom really is and make the initial comments that inspired my "rant". Yes, it did come across poorly and I should probably have titled it "Newbie subs and sub wanna-be's read this". I doubt very seriously that anyone who is familiar with the lifestyle and the various D/s dynamics would have said something like that to me in the first place. See, you aren't such a bad person after all!

 

[supercollider00]

You just AGAIN did the exact same thing you're complaining about when saying "wannabe sub". Is logic really that difficult to understand?

 

[slv4me]

You just AGAIN did the exact same thing you're complaining about when saying "wannabe sub". Is logic really that difficult to understand?

No, but apparently it is for you. How would you describe someone with NO experience but a desire to learn? Enlighten me with your obvious wisdom since you seem to know SO much more than anyone else! I really don't feel like arguing semantics with you.

 

[supercollider00]

It has little to do with semantics and mainly with respect. Honestly, your lack of respect and aggressiveness towards most of us here has shown your true colours. Everyone has bad periods and needs a rant, that's completely fine and no one thinks lesser of you for that. Your general demeanour on the other hand has been rather lacking. For some reason I just get the feeling you have a lot of difficulty collaborating with other people, and that is not meant as an ad homonem either.

And other words that aren't as demeaning especially when you make a separate category for "newbies AND wannabes": newcomer, neophyte, aspiring sub, etc. You are directly attacking someone's identity as a sub, yet complaining about the same thing. It's quite bizarre.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

No, not your response. The newbie and wannabe subs that do not know what a Dom really is and make the initial comments that inspired my "rant". Yes, it did come across poorly and I should probably have titled it "Newbie subs and sub wanna-be's read this". I doubt very seriously that anyone who is familiar with the lifestyle and the various D/s dynamics would have said something like that to me in the first place. See, you aren't such a bad person after all!

*blinks*

What?

Are you incapable of stopping? Can you please PLEASE exercise some self-control and just stop being condescending. If you stay here and try to meet people here they will research your posts, they will read this thread, you are the only one coming across poorly. Fara is far from the only person disagreeing with you and calling you out, but you are so focused on her. Subs aren’t doormats, buddy, and we do call out bad behavior here. Please stahp.

 

[ToPleaseHim]

It has little to do with semantics and mainly with respect. Honestly, your lack of respect and aggressiveness towards most of us here has shown your true colours. Everyone has bad periods and needs a rant, that's completely fine and no one thinks lesser of you for that. Your general demeanour on the other hand has been rather lacking. For some reason I just get the feeling you have a lot of difficulty collaborating with other people, and that is not meant as an ad homonem either.

And other words that aren't as demeaning especially when you make a separate category for "newbies AND wannabes": newcomer, neophyte, aspiring sub, etc. You are directly attacking someone's identity as a sub, yet complaining about the same thing. It's quite bizarre.

Quoted for truth!

 

[ToPleaseHim]

No, but apparently it is for you. How would you describe someone with NO experience but a desire to learn? Enlighten me with your obvious wisdom since you seem to know SO much more than anyone else! I really don't feel like arguing semantics with you.

When I met <insert username here> and we talked about the stories he had published, he knew I was extremely curious and even more green. Having married my high school sweetheart, I didn’t have a lot of vanilla experience, let alone any idea the spectrum of all things BDSM. He told me about his early experience, we shared stories, I read threads and talked to him. You know what he called me? A sub. And then, later, his sub.

 

[AnnieLit]

No, but apparently it is for you. How would you describe someone with NO experience but a desire to learn? Enlighten me with your obvious wisdom since you seem to know SO much more than anyone else! I really don't feel like arguing semantics with you.

Connotations, sir, connotations...

"Wannabe" in relation to a sub (or a dom) is a pretender. It is a person with no experience that misrepresents themself as somebody that they are not. It is a negative.

"Curious", "exploring" -- these are positives for somebody with no experience, but thinking about it and being open about the said lack of experience. I personally like to use "baby sub" and "baby dom" for people that are taking baby steps into the lifestyle, though baby subs are usually more fond of this term than baby doms

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I know I’m not.

I would have bristled at that title, too.

Best of luck.

I would have edited that title. Wannabe subs? FFS.

 

[AnnieLit]

When I met <insert username here> and we talked about the stories he had published, he knew I was extremely curious and even more green. Having married my high school sweetheart, I didn’t have a lot of vanilla experience, let alone any idea the spectrum of all things BDSM. He told me about his early experience, we shared stories, I read threads and talked to him. You know what he called me? A sub. And then, later, his sub.

This is very similar to my introduction. I knew I was a switch long before I came to Lit, but I did not have much experience on the sub side and had no idea what type of sub I was. Did not even know that there were different types. I met two guys that helped me figure this out. Both were very patient with me, but I know they enjoyed the journey too, as eventually I was their lg, at least for a while.

 

[Bramblethorn]

No, but apparently it is for you. How would you describe someone with NO experience but a desire to learn? Enlighten me with your obvious wisdom since you seem to know SO much more than anyone else! I really don't feel like arguing semantics with you.

"Newbie" was fine for that. Other words to express that sort of idea: "novice", "inexperienced", "who are here to learn", etc. etc.

But "wannabe" very often has connotations of "fake": a poseur, somebody who imitates. That's not the only way to interpret it, but given your previous "no true Dom or sub"-ing, it's not a huge surprise that people read it this way.

 

[cookiecat]

I don't have a lot of time to reply, which is probably a good thing.

slv4me, you're just wrong. Hypocritical.

What could've been an interesting topic for a thread spun out of control. It could've been a great learning discussion.

But nope.

The things you're complaining about are the exact things you're doing here in this thread as well as the bdsm test thread.

Over generalizing, taking things so personally, demeaning others when they don't meet your standard (calling people who take the bdsm test stupid).

Man up. Calm down. Whatever.

PS, yes - I'm lucky enough to call Fara a best friend. We met here. On occasion we disagree about stuff. Imagine that!

 

[Misshotndeep]

I don't have a lot of time to reply, which is probably a good thing.

slv4me, you're just wrong. Hypocritical.

What could've been an interesting topic for a thread spun out of control. It could've been a great learning discussion.

But nope.

The things you're complaining about are the exact things you're doing here in this thread as well as the bdsm test thread.

Over generalizing, taking things so personally, demeaning others when they don't meet your standard (calling people who take the bdsm test stupid).

Man up. Calm down. Whatever.

PS, yes - I'm lucky enough to call Fara a best friend. We met here. On occasion we disagree about stuff. Imagine that!

If you don't like the topic or way this thread is going then you have the right to leave. Don't let the door hit you! Bye Felicia!!!
I won't even mention your taste in friends as everyone knows how I feel about that cunt.
As to the issue, as I started a lot of do called ”subs” on here are just needy bitches who want attention and don't even understand the basics of a BDSM relationship at all. There are some lovely ladies here. Not a lot mind you.

And now I am talking as a former Dome myself. Just cuz I don't do it anymore does not mean I did not once upon A time.

There are three things that are necessities for any D relationship. Any relationship at all really. They are trust, respect, and communication. From all I have read and discussed with many of the true Doms here, the so call subs of Lit, exhibit none of these. Not a one. They top from the bottom or give zero submission while demanding total on-demand attention from thier would be Doms. Please be advised that their are some on here who do truly understand the concept of a Ds relationship and respect those rules.
The fact you dumb cunts are even on here bitching about these basics shows you have no clue and need to either be re-educated or stop calling yourselves SUbs.
Your just attention-seeking needy bitches with issues.
If you don't like what I have to say then block me or leave the thread. But let's be honest what you really don't like is the truth!

 

[Misshotndeep]

Oh, dear. Someone drank the crazy juice again.

Tell me... how *does* one become a “Dome?”

You drunk crazy juice? How much as opposed to yesterday...the day before???
And I missed an ”m” in my spelling if you must know. Thanx for proving you have use as a spelling nazi at least. I thought your only use was to amuse me. God know you aren't worth shit else.
You just keep making me laugh!

 

[AnnieLit]

Wow! I thought this happened only on the GB and sometimes in personals. A bit unexpected turn of events, but OK...