All right, I actually need some opinions...

[FallingToFly]

I have a research paper due in nine weeks, and this past week has been rather fun around here as the household tossed ideas back and forth like bouncing balls about what I should write about. (Yes, it is a matter of debate, because if I hate what I'm writing, I get insufferably cranky and you can't live with me.) We -did- have it narrowed down to an serious expansion of a sketched in essay I wrote a couple years ago on the significance of certain plants and herbs in history and myth and a research project that dealt with street racing. Jokingly, Li pops out with: "You know, you should write a paper on the effects of Steinman's work on the body and mind, since you're so completely OCD about it lately."

It's a really silly idea, but for some reason, it's stuck in my head. Li went so far as to offer to set up a quiet room and allow me to borrow his automatic BP/heart rate monitor for the research aspect of it, and helped me figure out a theorhetical five-song block to expose test subjects to. Now I'm havign a debate- how completely twisted and warped do I have to be to even consider attempting this?

(Thought I would ask the maniacs on here, as they at least have an idea of what I'm talking about, wheras my professor gave me the most incredibly blank look I've ever seen when she saw that in my list of proposed topics. She didn't even realize that most performers don't write their own songs. >.<)

(poll coming)

 

[cantdog]

Steinman, Ralph M.
Henry G. Kunkel Professor and Senior Physician
Current research.
Two kinds of mechanisms have been identified that allow dendritic cells to induce tolerance. In one, studied together with Sayuri Yamazaki and Kristin Tarbell, immature dendritic cells induce the production and/or expansion of special regulatory or suppressor lymphocytes. The growth of CD4+CD25+ suppressor T cells can be stimulated by dendritic cells, making these special T cells available to study the regulation of autoimmune disease, as well as resistance to transplants and tumors. In another silencing mechanism, investigated with Michel Nussenzweig, dendritic cells inactivate (delete and anergize) antigen-specific T cells. These mechanisms are now being investigated in the context of autoimmunity, beginning with insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus. The latter studies are carried out together with Svetlana Mojsov, who has also identified the glucagon-like peptide, GLP-I, as a major stimulus of insulin production.

This Steinman??

 

[cantdog]

DREAM POLLUTION

"In all of us there is a lawless side like
a wild beast, that peers out during sleep..."​

- Jim Steinman​

This Steinman??

 

[FallingToFly]

This Steinman??

Jim Steinman, the songwriter.

 

[cantdog]

Dayum

 

[FallingToFly]

This Steinman??

Yes that steinman... *melts into a gooey pile of mush*

 

[Liar]

I'm afraid my stare is nearly as blank as your professor's. Never heard of Jim Steinman. Are you going to gimmie a hint or three, or am I forced to Google?

 

[Liar]

But um. Seriously. If you go into mush mode over him, you are way too biased to write that thing. It risks looking like a teen crush disguised in academic lingo.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

But um. Seriously. If you go into mush mode over him, you are way too biased to write that thing. It risks looking like a teen crush disguised in academic lingo.

I'm gonna have to go with Liar on this one... and assessing mind/body responses to HIS music... well wouldn't you have to do a control group? (mind/body response to music in general?) What is your hypothesis here? Or is it purely phenomenological?

 

[FallingToFly]

I'm gonna have to go with Liar on this one... and assessing mind/body responses to HIS music... well wouldn't you have to do a control group? (mind/body response to music in general?) What is your hypothesis here? Or is it purely phenomenological?

No, that was a super exaggeration, lol... This whole thing started yesterday as a joke yesterday, and today has sort of snowballed. I like the music a great deal, and promte the hel out of it, but I don't get totally mushy over it- part of what started this yesterday was finding a list of the top ten most road-rage inducing songs.

Meat Loaf's - Bat Out Of Hell, written, arranged and produced by Jim Steinman, is like number 7. (Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries is number 3, I believe.) The concept was actually a continuation of a joke- Steinman's music as a whole gets me up, moving, no matter what. Sick as a dog, and not only am I pouring out words, I'm cleaning, I'm dancing. My kids, who are horrible to keep motic=vated and moving, have the same reaction. A guest comes over, and within fifteen minutes, they're off and running too. Coupled witht he afore-mentioned study, I start thinking about it: what is it about THIS music, no matter who is singing it, that gets everyone moving? What makes us react this way?

So, I switched my playlist off the Steinman songs and to a more modern alternative rock list. The same instruments... but everything slows down. I start feeling my aches and pains again, the kids start fighting again. Switch back to Steinman, things pick back up. I start thinking more and more about this crazy idea. I have a list of songs by composers that sound similar in tempo and tone, to the five Steinman picks (I chose a Steinman/non-Steinman song from each artist on the list) and what we were planning is a control group of 20. four quick mindset-emotionsurveys, one at the start of each set of songs, one at the end. BP/heart rate at the beginning and end of each set of songs. We were also going to do the survey/monitoring a week apart- the first week for the non-Steinman, the second for the Steinman (I can only get my volunteers here on Sunday, and I didn't want to do back-to-backs that might contaminate the results.).

I've put way too much thought into this scheme... oddly enough, I've put just as much into the other two ideas. I think I've hit overachiever mode.

 

[R. Richard]

Quote:
DREAM POLLUTION
"In all of us there is a lawless side like
a wild beast, that peers out during sleep..."
- Jim Steinman

[threadjack]
Why is it that he assumes that the wild beast just peers out during sleep? TIA.
[/threadjack]

 

[FallingToFly]

Quote:
DREAM POLLUTION
"In all of us there is a lawless side like
a wild beast, that peers out during sleep..."
- Jim Steinman

[threadjack]
Why is it that he assumes that the wild beast just peers out during sleep? TIA.
[/threadjack]

This is the same man who wrote "Good Girls Go To Heaven (Bad Girls Go Everywhere)."

Somehow, I think he's in touch with his inner ravaging beasties.

 

[FallingToFly]

Quick Note: Nevermind. I managed to sit down with a couple of friends and work out something for this paper... it should be fun. Especially as we have a volunteer group all set up and ready to rock... Research starts Sunday!!!

(And no, it isn't the Steinman topic, exactly. It's a bit stranger even than the original concept... having pysch majors as research assistants makes for fun.)

 

[Antfarmer77]

Yes that steinman... *melts into a gooey pile of mush*

* runs in with a big straw*
I say go for it

 

[Huckleman2000]

Interesting idea, but I have to wonder if it's possible to separate Jim Steinman's songs from Meat Loaf's performances of them. The theatricality of each complements the other, in my view.

As an actor, doing classical works such as Shakespeare allows one a much broader range of style, physicality, and emotion. I've concluded that this is due to the writing, which holds up to much chewing of scenery - demands it, actually. That isn't to say that you can throw any semblance of naturalistic performance out the window. It simply means that naturalism is just one style of many that can be used at various points throughout the script.

Similarly, Steinman's libretto is highly stylized. His penchant for taking sentences from mundane, yet common sources and twisting them to mean something different, for example. ("Objects in the rearview mirror may be closer than they appear." The baseball play-by-play in "Paradise By The Dashboard Light".)

Other times he takes idioms and uses their literal meanings for a clever and catchy reinterpretation. ("You took the words right out of my mouth; it must have been while you were kissing me." "So now I'm praying for the end of time to hurry up and arrive...) He also likes to change one word to shift the meaning ("All Revved Up With No Place to Go"), or use modern idioms as anachronism ("I'll bet you say that to all the boys.")

In summary, Steinman's lyrics cannot be performed naturalistically. They are theatrical, not conversational. Unabashedly schlocky at times, anything less than a totally committed performance runs the risk of making the songs self-parodying. Which raises the question, is it the musical performance or the lyrics that makes the songs compelling?

 

[FallingToFly]

Interesting idea, but I have to wonder if it's possible to separate Jim Steinman's songs from Meat Loaf's performances of them. The theatricality of each complements the other, in my view.

As an actor, doing classical works such as Shakespeare allows one a much broader range of style, physicality, and emotion. I've concluded that this is due to the writing, which holds up to much chewing of scenery - demands it, actually. That isn't to say that you can throw any semblance of naturalistic performance out the window. It simply means that naturalism is just one style of many that can be used at various points throughout the script.

Similarly, Steinman's libretto is highly stylized. His penchant for taking sentences from mundane, yet common sources and twisting them to mean something different, for example. ("Objects in the rearview mirror may be closer than they appear." The baseball play-by-play in "Paradise By The Dashboard Light".)

Other times he takes idioms and uses their literal meanings for a clever and catchy reinterpretation. ("You took the words right out of my mouth; it must have been while you were kissing me." "So now I'm praying for the end of time to hurry up and arrive...) He also likes to change one word to shift the meaning ("All Revved Up With No Place to Go"), or use modern idioms as anachronism ("I'll bet you say that to all the boys.")

In summary, Steinman's lyrics cannot be performed naturalistically. They are theatrical, not conversational. Unabashedly schlocky at times, anything less than a totally committed performance runs the risk of making the songs self-parodying. Which raises the question, is it the musical performance or the lyrics that makes the songs compelling?

Steinman's work can be separated from Meat Loaf quite easily, simply by taking a larger sampling of his work. Most people (at least in the States) will know the songs "Total Eclipse of the Heart"(Bonnie Tyler) "Holding Out For Hero"(BT and on the shrek 2 soundtrack) and "Making Love Out Of Nothing At All"(Air Supply and the Mr. and Mrs. Smith soundtrack) although they probably aren't aware of who wrote them. Steinman has also worked with Barbara Streisand, Barry Manilow, and three concept bands that he put to together himself and wrote, produced and arranged their music for them. Not everything he writes is over the top, overblown and loud. (Lost Boys and Golden Girls comes to mind, as well as Left in The Dark and a few others.)

Right now a large part of the concept is set aside- we're (meaning myself and the people I've roped into helping witht eh finessing of the idea) focusing on the basic feasibilities of some topics. >.< ANd my husband took a look at the outline for the street racing research and nixed it. Damn him.

 

[cloudy]

I still remember what happened last time I offered an opinion.

*backs away from the thread*

kidding, of course....I'll still liberally throw my opinion around, but I just couldn't resist.

 

[Huckleman2000]

Steinman's work can be separated from Meat Loaf quite easily, simply by taking a larger sampling of his work. Most people (at least in the States) will know the songs "Total Eclipse of the Heart"(Bonnie Tyler) "Holding Out For Hero"(BT and on the shrek 2 soundtrack) and "Making Love Out Of Nothing At All"(Air Supply and the Mr. and Mrs. Smith soundtrack) although they probably aren't aware of who wrote them. Steinman has also worked with Barbara Streisand, Barry Manilow, and three concept bands that he put to together himself and wrote, produced and arranged their music for them. Not everything he writes is over the top, overblown and loud. (Lost Boys and Golden Girls comes to mind, as well as Left in The Dark and a few others.)

Right now a large part of the concept is set aside- we're (meaning myself and the people I've roped into helping witht eh finessing of the idea) focusing on the basic feasibilities of some topics. >.< ANd my husband took a look at the outline for the street racing research and nixed it. Damn him.

The street racing idea, I thought, was intriguing. All I know of it, though, is the excellent Springsteen song "Racing in the Streets" and the loud revs of engines late at night on the long straightaway running about a quarter mile away from my house.

Re: Steinman's music - I understand your point about other artists doing his work, but I don't think Bonnie Tyler, Air Supply, and an animated movie soundtrack contradict my premise that the music lends itself to theatricality. I certainly don't dispute that it moves something deep inside, and I count myself a fan (even though I wasn't really aware of some of the other singers). I guess I'm biased in the unending debate over whether theater is a performing or a literary art; whether a performer is an original or an interpretive artist.

 

[FallingToFly]

The street racing idea, I thought, was intriguing. All I know of it, though, is the excellent Springsteen song "Racing in the Streets" and the loud revs of engines late at night on the long straightaway running about a quarter mile away from my house.

Re: Steinman's music - I understand your point about other artists doing his work, but I don't think Bonnie Tyler, Air Supply, and an animated movie soundtrack contradict my premise that the music lends itself to theatricality. I certainly don't dispute that it moves something deep inside, and I count myself a fan (even though I wasn't really aware of some of the other singers). I guess I'm biased in the unending debate over whether theater is a performing or a literary art; whether a performer is an original or an interpretive artist.

cloudy: I actually was going to PM and ask if I could pick your brain about some Native MAerican stuff. May I?

Huck: www.jimsteinman.com
If you go into the biography section there is a lot of information on his work. Yes, I am pimping out the Steinman site, lol. If you go into the section titled "Everythign Louder Than everything Else" you can find the link to what started my whole concept of this topic: Jim Steinman's music being proven a road hazard. Some half-assed research of my own (which involved nothing more strenuous than noticing the household's tempo based on two separate playlists) intrigued me further.

I will definitely agree that Steinman is theatrical. So are quite a few other artists (Guns N Roses come to mind, witht eh November Rain, Don't Cry, Estranged trilogy) and I don't get the same rush from them. I can sleep through a Guns N Rose sosng- even the soft stuff, like "Left In The dark" wakes me up instantly and makes me want to write. It could be an isolated reaction that just means I'm a freak, but now I'm curious.

Still, I'll probably end up doing the other concept instead... which sucks. I already have all the research material I will need on the subject on my bookshelf, if that gives you an idea.

 

[cloudy]

cloudy: I actually was going to PM and ask if I could pick your brain about some Native MAerican stuff. May I?

Sure, it's not a problem at all.

 

[Explaura]

What kind of research are you going to be able to do? What kind of literature reveiw will you look into. Are you supposed to be designing a study? Or can you make it more of a textual analysis kind of a thing? Will you compare his work to other songwriters? It seems like it would be pretty hard to get enough relevant sources that focus just on your topic unless you want to broaden it quite a bit. What are you arguing again? That there is a physical response to his music that is not there in other music? That sounds damn hard to prove. I say approach with caution.