All at once or a chapter at a time?

[bumblegrum]

I recently got some very helpful feedback from a reader about Chapter 1 of a story I've recently submitted. My correspondent included the following comment:

"If you're publishing a story in installments, writing and submitting one installment at a time, there is the chance that you will suddenly develop a new idea for a slight change of direction in the tale, a direction that is rather precluded by something you've written in an earlier chapter. If you're publishing the story as a complete whole (even if you break it down into chapters to publish it) you have at least the ability to go back and edit that earlier chapter so that it allows for the new change in direction. Submitting each chapter as you write it usually guarantees that some dork out there will catch your error and raise bloody hell with you, over it."

That got me thinking - my gut reaction is, "no, I'd rather do it bit by bit, and respond to feedback if it's helpful". But it did set me to wondering how other authors handle this, and do you find difficulties using either approach? I'd be very interested to hear people's comments.

Regards

 

[sr71plt]

There are very few writers in the universe who can write a well-structured, tight novel by publishing it in bits and pieces. And most of those died before the late nineteenth century when serial writing was an art form.

But this isn't the New Yorker, so if you enjoy doing it, do it. Just don't be surprised when you get "flabby," "too many dangling threads," "going nowhere slowly," and "will you EVER go someplace with this?" comments.

 

[PennLady]

Personally, I have found that I like to have half or more of a story written before I start posting it, and then I try to stay on pace to keep posting at a regular pace, such as once a week.

 

[SydneyBlake]

I can't tell you which way is best. I can say that posting as I go has forced me to keep at it, whereas I might have quit and moved on to something else if I were going to wait until it's finished to post it. I had several chapters nearly finished before I started posting, and I have a rough outline worked out all the way to the end. Still, I run into roadblocks. If I had it to do over again, I'd prefer to have a more complete product before.

But you know what? Lit's kind is a good place to practice. Who cares if you screw up some small detail? Learn from it and move on.

 

[3113]

I like to finish the whole thing. The comment you got is quite right. There are often realizations about the story that come to a writer as they get to the middle or end, things that the writer realizes they need, but won't work if they don't go back and incorporate them into the earlier chapters--like an ex-boyfriend they didn't know existed, or that the hero used to live in Germany.

As much as I like feedback, readers can't give me feedback on something I haven't put in--and they can't give me real feedback on the story if they don't get all of it, including the hints, clues, character flaws, etc. that need to be there so that the story feels rich and complete. This is especially true if I'm hoping to offer some sort of surprise. I can't suddenly say in chapter five, "Oh, by the way, she's allergic to shellfish--forgot to mention that--and that's why she's now in the hospital..." that's not playing fair with the reader, and the reader might roll their eyes and say, "Screw leaving feedback, I'm not reading any more."

If I let them know that she's allergic to shellfish early on, then they'll nod their head when she gets sick, glad to see that hint paid off, not feel like I put that in at the last minute and am making this up as I go along.

The best feedback you'll get is from people who won't appreciate the fact that you're making things up as you go, and asking them to help you write it. In my experience, such readers don't want to comment on a rough draft, they want to comment on the finished draft and help you polish it so it shines even brighter.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

I've never submitted chapters of a story that was not finished.

It used to be I'd finish an entire story then submit all the chapters at once but as separate submissions (and they would generally post one a day). But I had a terrible problem a month or two ago with multiple submissions at the same time.

So for the story I've just started submitting I'm waiting until a chapter posts (the first chapter posted with the 8/20 stuff) and make sure it's posted correctly and completely and then submitting the next chapter.

I very much like the idea of posting a long story (my current one is 31 chapters and about 127k words) in chapters. To some extent that comes from my preference as a reader. When I start into a story as a reader and see at the bottom of the first page that there are still ten additional pages on the post (each Literotica page is about 3750 words) I just close the story. But if I can get the same story in ten or eleven installments then I'm much more likely to stay with it. I think readers can be just overwhelmed, and giving them a story in smaller bites is a better option.

But when I think about the story I'm submitting now, I couldn't imagine starting to submit and post before the story was complete. While I knew the outlines of the story I wanted to tell (It's about a young woman - 24 and about to turn 25 in the present time setting of the story - who comes out of adolescence with questions about her sexuality. She's powerfully attracted to the concepts of sexual dominance and submission, but can't decide which she is or something in between) a lot of the specifics were unclear to me and only became clear when I started writing. For instance, she has a romance in the story - I knew absolutley where I wanted the romance to go but not how to get there. Many other specifics were unclear as well. The story is also referential to previous stories (the main character appeared in two previous stories) so those issues needed to be pretty carefully worked out.

Another reader consideration. I see readers all the time on here complaining about unfinished stories - those stories where a chapter only posts every six months or two years or whatever, or stories that simply stop and never come to a conclusion. I have a base of fans who seem to like and appreciate my stories and the premise of the stories and the quality of my writing, and I'd never let them down like that. Just another reason to have a complete story done and ready to present before the first submissio happens.

 

[evanslily]

I think it depends on what sort of writer you are. Some of us need the 'push' of knowing that people are waiting on the next chapter.

I haven't actually posted anything here since January (OMG, January???) because I promised myself that I wouldn't post another work without having at least half a dozen chapters in hand. Result? Well, the result speaks for itself... I think I might just have to post the first chapter of something and put the pressure back on myself.

Your correspondent's right though, of course - if you suddenly decide that your main character needs to have a change of backstory, it's pretty difficult to go back and change things. Although I'd argue that you can - you could go back and edit an earlier chapter (and I've done that!). If you leave readers hanging as long as I tend to do, they have to go back and read the story from the beginning anyway. Of course, they'll complain about having to do that too (and rightly so).

But sometimes, being bound by a decision you made earlier in the story - because sometimes it just isn't possible to change things - might force you to resolve the story in a much more original way.

Do what works for you.

 

[talismania]

I post completed stories because that's what works best for me and the kinds of stories I like to write. There's enormous creative freedom in being able to go back into the story and add something or someone I think it needs, or reorder my scenes.

I think new writers can benefit from posting as they write, though. They're still figuring out things like plotting and character and getting responses from readers helps them see what they might be doing right, or if something falls flat. Knowing that someone is reading their story generates amazing energy that can help sustain them during the learning process.

Writing a complete novel can take months or even years and not every writer has that discipline. Most writers develop it, though, and there's something to be said for developing it while writing on the fly.

The downside of submitting complete stories/novels is the length of time between appearances of those whole series. I disappear for about three months between mine, but readers have told me they appreciate getting whole stories.

 

[jdnunyer]

I see advantages both ways, but I prefer to write the whole thing then post chapters from it. Like others have said, the main advantage of posting as you write is that it keeps you motivated to finish because you are getting feedback sort of in real time. If that's an issue for you, it's something to consider. The main advantage of finishing first is that you can make sure the early chapters set up later developments, like everyone has said.

 

[TxRad]

I've done one chaptered story and I finished it before posting.

 

[lovecraft68]

I think it depends on what sort of writer you are. Some of us need the 'push' of knowing that people are waiting on the next chapter. .

I agree, I was going to write my story in full, but after finding lit decided to put the first few up to see what kind of reaction I received.

Since then there have been times I've been close to running out of gas, but getting several e-mails a week from people asking for the next one gave me a reason to focus.

There are many series that have been started here and never finished, leaving people hanging and I vowed I wouldn't do that, so I think the one at a time approach has worked for me.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

Sigh...

I have a major problem doing this. I like doing chapters, and then an idea occurs to me, and I start another story. I'm fixing that now, and soon I will have only two story lines open at once in stead of four. I'm writing several stories other then the ones I'm submitting, and from now on, I want to have two story lines open at all time.

I love submitting by chapter, because of the way the story evolves in little ways. What you have to do is have the basic plot of your story down. For example, when I was writing one of my stories, I knew that I wanted him to be kidnapped, and then rescued by his lover. That was my basic plot, but I could add or take away or embellish any way I wanted.

So, make sure you have the most basic elements of the plot set in stone, and then have fun!

 

[3113]

Like others have said, the main advantage of posting as you write is that it keeps you motivated to finish because you are getting feedback sort of in real time.

There are many series that have been started here and never finished, leaving people hanging

What Lovecraft said. What writers are saying when they say "I'm motivated to write the next chapter" is that they're using this place as a writers group. A writers group is where you and other writers exchange stories and meet regularly; knowing others are waiting for the next chapter motivates you to keep writing. Now it's fine to use this place as a writer's group, but you have to understand that unlike a writers' group, the feedback you'll usually get won't be: "This plot isn't working," or "Your side character is your main character--" which often DO help writers keep writing the story. The usual feedback you'll get here is: "That was hot! Keep writing!"

Usually, these comments come early on. And that's when writers don't need much motivation to keep writing. At the start of a story, you, the writer, want to know what's going to happen as much as the reader does, and cheers from the stands are simply the icing on the cake. But somewhere in the middle, your personal motivation may flag, especially if you run into a problem--your main character isn't' as interesting as you thought she'd be, the setting is dull, the plot has stalled...etc. And comments like "I love this character, more please!" or "where's the next chapter?" start to sound like pressure rather than motivation. And, again, unlike a writer's group where everyone is writing and reading and commenting on each others stories...that feedback doesn't help you solve your problem.

And what happens? Well. As Lovecraft says, it's all too likely that you'll become one of the many writers here who leave the story dangling and unfinished as you jump that ship for a different ship. You start a new story where you'll feel motivated again and forget about the old.

There are a lot more writers here who haven't finished chaptered stories than those who have. Which is perfectly fine. The stories here are free and you're not really ripping any one off. So if you want this place to be your writing playground have at it. And feel free to switch to a different game whenever the one you were playing is no longer stimulating. All writers do this by the way--start stories we never finish--things we thought would work but don't. The difference is simply whether we post those we are working on--and may lose interest in--or whether we wait and only post those we do finish.

On a free site, it really doesn't matter which you do--unless, as Lovecraft pointed out, you really, really want to be sure you're not posting anything you can't finish.

 

[GinaTina]

Or you can be like me and just wing it. My current story is being submitted in chapters and it's not finished...

-_-' ...though this is rather difficult. The readers here are voracious and insatiable. It's probably better to have the whole thing written out before hand. Well, you live and learn.

My next story will be finished before I start posting it. :d

 

[D_Lynn]

I think it depends on what sort of writer you are. Some of us need the 'push' of knowing that people are waiting on the next chapter.

I totally agree; It depends. Some of us write better when we aren't under any pressure at all to produce. Readers waiting for my next chapter would totally stymie me.

I also am what they refer to as a 'method writer'. The story evolves around the characters as they develop. I may have a rough idea where I want the story to end up but how, precisely, I get there is dependent on the psychological development of the characters. I don't often go back and make major revisions on earlier chapters, but it does happen. Sometimes for as simple a reason as to change a supporting character's name because it is too much like another character I've introduced.

 

[jdnunyer]

What Lovecraft said. What writers are saying when they say "I'm motivated to write the next chapter" is that they're using this place as a writers group. A writers group is where you and other writers exchange stories and meet regularly; knowing others are waiting for the next chapter motivates you to keep writing. Now it's fine to use this place as a writer's group, but you have to understand that unlike a writers' group, the feedback you'll usually get won't be: "This plot isn't working," or "Your side character is your main character--" which often DO help writers keep writing the story. The usual feedback you'll get here is: "That was hot! Keep writing!"

Usually, these comments come early on. And that's when writers don't need much motivation to keep writing. At the start of a story, you, the writer, want to know what's going to happen as much as the reader does, and cheers from the stands are simply the icing on the cake. But somewhere in the middle, your personal motivation may flag, especially if you run into a problem--your main character isn't' as interesting as you thought she'd be, the setting is dull, the plot has stalled...etc. And comments like "I love this character, more please!" or "where's the next chapter?" start to sound like pressure rather than motivation. And, again, unlike a writer's group where everyone is writing and reading and commenting on each others stories...that feedback doesn't help you solve your problem.

And what happens? Well. As Lovecraft says, it's all too likely that you'll become one of the many writers here who leave the story dangling and unfinished as you jump that ship for a different ship. You start a new story where you'll feel motivated again and forget about the old.

There are a lot more writers here who haven't finished chaptered stories than those who have. Which is perfectly fine. The stories here are free and you're not really ripping any one off. So if you want this place to be your writing playground have at it. And feel free to switch to a different game whenever the one you were playing is no longer stimulating. All writers do this by the way--start stories we never finish--things we thought would work but don't. The difference is simply whether we post those we are working on--and may lose interest in--or whether we wait and only post those we do finish.

On a free site, it really doesn't matter which you do--unless, as Lovecraft pointed out, you really, really want to be sure you're not posting anything you can't finish.

That's a good way to put it, 3113. And I agree completely with what you said farther up too.

 

[lovecraft68]

What Lovecraft said. What writers are saying when they say "I'm motivated to write the next chapter" is that they're using this place as a writers group. A writers group is where you and other writers exchange stories and meet regularly; knowing others are waiting for the next chapter motivates you to keep writing. Now it's fine to use this place as a writer's group, but you have to understand that unlike a writers' group, the feedback you'll usually get won't be: "This plot isn't working," or "Your side character is your main character--" which often DO help writers keep writing the story. The usual feedback you'll get here is: "That was hot! Keep writing!"

Usually, these comments come early on. And that's when writers don't need much motivation to keep writing. At the start of a story, you, the writer, want to know what's going to happen as much as the reader does, and cheers from the stands are simply the icing on the cake. But somewhere in the middle, your personal motivation may flag, especially if you run into a problem--your main character isn't' as interesting as you thought she'd be, the setting is dull, the plot has stalled...etc. And comments like "I love this character, more please!" or "where's the next chapter?" start to sound like pressure rather than motivation. And, again, unlike a writer's group where everyone is writing and reading and commenting on each others stories...that feedback doesn't help you solve your problem.

And what happens? Well. As Lovecraft says, it's all too likely that you'll become one of the many writers here who leave the story dangling and unfinished as you jump that ship for a different ship. You start a new story where you'll feel motivated again and forget about the old.

There are a lot more writers here who haven't finished chaptered stories than those who have. Which is perfectly fine. The stories here are free and you're not really ripping any one off. So if you want this place to be your writing playground have at it. And feel free to switch to a different game whenever the one you were playing is no longer stimulating. All writers do this by the way--start stories we never finish--things we thought would work but don't. The difference is simply whether we post those we are working on--and may lose interest in--or whether we wait and only post those we do finish.

On a free site, it really doesn't matter which you do--unless, as Lovecraft pointed out, you really, really want to be sure you're not posting anything you can't finish.

Well said and a good point about feedback. Personally for me this approach works because I am competitive by nature and if I can see anything as a test, I will be hellbent on finishing it. I even pushed myself further by saying at one point there were 10 chapters left therefore forcing myself into an even stricter mode of writing.

The thought that if I do not finish there will be people saying, yeah I knew it! Yeah another one who couldn't finish! Drives me crazy.

For the record I have written 38 and 39 in the last 10 days and today started 40 which is the finale. I will finish by next week. People can love or hate it, but at the end of the day I will finish the fucker.

 

[DG Hear]

I've done both. Submitted a chapter or two at a time and sometimes all at once. For the contest there isn't a choice. I have to say I don't read all that much and usually stay away from chapter stories till they are finished.

For submission purposes, My stories are finished before I submit the first chapter. My preference of course.
DG

 

[sr71plt]

Well, if you think you only have one story in you, I guess you have to milk for more than it's worth. I write some long works--but they are finished before I inflict them on anyone.

 

[driphoney]

There are very few writers in the universe who can write a well-structured, tight novel by publishing it in bits and pieces. And most of those died before the late nineteenth century when serial writing was an art form.

But this isn't the New Yorker, so if you enjoy doing it, do it. Just don't be surprised when you get "flabby," "too many dangling threads," "going nowhere slowly," and "will you EVER go someplace with this?" comments.

Kind of like Charles Dickens? Didn't he do that? Or was it some other author? Hmmm.

 

[russellvilleman]

For submission purposes, My stories are finished before I submit the first chapter. My preference of course.

^This.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well, if you think you only have one story in you, I guess you have to milk for more than it's worth. I write some long works--but they are finished before I inflict them on anyone.

Nice attempt at a shot at me. Of course you are also insulting anyone else who has done a long series a chapter at a time. Or have only ever written one series, but hey that's you, classy as always.

Now why don't you go back to sitting under Laurel and Manu's table and see if they'll throw another "E" to your schmoozing dog like ass?

P.S.

 

[sr71plt]

Nice attempt at a shot at me. Of course you are also insulting anyone else who has done a long series a chapter at a time. Or have only ever written one series, but hey that's you, classy as always.

Now why don't you go back to sitting under Laurel and Manu's table and see if they'll throw another "E" to your schmoozing dog like ass?

P.S.

It wasn't a shot at specifically your one-note samba--but now that you mention it. I make that comment on everyone's "I can't think of anythng else to write about, so I'll write this one to death" works. It was prompted by what both you and 3113 were posting. Using the Web site as a writers group is fine. But rumbling out one long rambling story isn't either story writing or making much use of a writers group setting. It's closer to journaling and blogging. You can better and wider-based use the site as a writers group by writing a variety of shorter stories--and you can get a whole lot more feedback on and develop talent for story writing by actually writing stories.

 

[3113]

Good point!

Using the Web site as a writers group is fine. But rumbling out one long rambling story isn't either story writing or making much use of a writers group setting. It's closer to journaling and blogging. You can better and wider-based use the site as a writers group by writing a variety of shorter stories--and you can get a whole lot more feedback on and develop talent for story writing by actually writing stories.

That's a very good point. I think you're absolutely right that if a writer wants to use this site as they would a writer's group (it's really not that good a substitute, but if its the best one can have for the moment...), short stories are a much better way to go then chapters.

With short stories everything is there for the reader to discuss--the entire plot, the entire character arc, the conflict, even the sex from foreplay to climax. As you say, the whole story. So the feedback can be more detailed and informative--it can applaud the strengths and point out the weaknesses, which is much harder to do with, as you say, rambling chapters where not even the writer knows where the story is going or how the characters will develop or what kind of sex they'll have when they have sex, come to that.

 

[CarlusMagnus]

With short stories everything is there for the reader to discuss--the entire plot, the entire character arc, the conflict, even the sex from foreplay to climax.

Except for a very important ingredient: development.