Alcohol Issues

[wehstar]

A couple of points:-

When I drink I'm fine, until I have a shot. Then I am in severe danger of becoming a shot monster. If you are similar, then there should be no reason why you should have to drink the shots when you go clubbing. If your under pressure, maybe think up some standard responses you can say to the pressurisers. Maybe sticking to the lower % drinks is a moderate solution that means you don't have to change your life significantly.

Leaving the UK would probably help, lol!

If you wanted to, there are alcohol support chat rooms you may find people to help in, if getting to an actual support group is a pain.

 

[elib257]

Hiya, thanks again to everybody.

First things first, I really appreciate everybody's input and have not felt let down by anybody. Even Mr Essex who seems a bit more blunt. What you're saying Mr Essex is of course correct, the problem is doing it. As I have said before there's no excusing what I do, it's wrong and I've admitted it. What I meant by this thread (and from the replies I've had I think most people got it) was a general discussion about abstinence and how it might be achieved without want to seem like the sad, boring, lonely, loser. But thankyou Mr Essex, bluntness has its place and if I were to reply to a thread like this without being in the situation, that's the reply I would give.

I'm not going to reply to each individually but I can't thank you all enough, it's been read and digested.

Just a little update, I went to the pub today. It wasn't a big session but most people had 3/4 drinks. I had 2 tonic waters . I still enjoyed the night and was laughing and joining in. The only problem is my drinks cost about 90p each and I was still being included in rounds! Might have to think about that one...

Anyway, I know it's not much, but I've literally never been to the pub without drinking so it's a step and I enjoyed it.

Thankyou everyone.

 

[Weird Harold]

Just a little update, I went to the pub today. ... I still enjoyed the night and was laughing and joining in. The only problem is my drinks cost about 90p each and I was still being included in rounds! Might have to think about that one...

A good start.

However, I was reminded today of a potentially "serious" flaw in any plan to stop drinking: The tendency to slip into a "Born Again Convert" role; someone who constantly "preaches" about how much better of fthey are since they stopped some disgusing habit and how their friends, aquaintances and total strangers should become born again and band together to get said disgusing habit completely outlawed.

In my case, the reminder was connected with my recently having quit smoking and being offended by an obnoxious smoker at the bus stop (one who would have offended me when I still smoked, but that's beside the point) and my unconscious reaction. But it reminded me of similar reactions when I first quit drinking though and the fight to not turn judgemental on friends and acquaintances who had been drinking buddies in the recent past.

As for the difference in price for buying a round, it's the same cost for every round for every participant -- you have to decide whether the comradery of sharing the cost of a night out or the savings in buying your own drinks is more important to you. The latter choice IS cheaper, but it also Looks miserly.

 

[Cathleen]

I could write a thousand page thesis on the topic. I won't, as some is too personal, painful and just too sad.

I am one of two non-alcoholics in my family - living or dead - in more than three generations. I feel blessed to have spent time in the halls of some 12-step meetings (Ala-non - ACOA adult children of alcohlics). It gave me so much it's hard to explain. It offered information, tools, a place to share my thoughts and experiences.

There are some wonderful things I learned from attending open AA meetings (as opposed to closed meetings where non-alcoholics are not invited (for lack of a better word)). One was about attending meetings and then going out to drink -- 'A head full of AA and a belly full of beer don't mix'. Another about taking a drink -- 'One is too many and a thousand isn't enough'.

There is no formula to determine who is an alcoholic. One person's 'drinking problem' isn't another's 'hey it's just the way I drink'; it's a personal issue. Factors in looking at your drinking behavior include family, job, friends, health and lots more. I certainly cannot tell you if you're an alcoholic - none of us can. You need to take a look at what issues come up as a result of your behavior and how that impacts your life. Remembering that 'your life' does include people who love you and surround you.

Admitting we have a problem with an addiction, be it alcohol, drugs, sex, food etc is not easy on our sense of self. It's hard, scary, difficult, immense and humbling -- if we are truly honest with ourselves. Living honestly isn't possible for some and is mandatory for others -- real life happens in the middle for most of us.

I wish you all the best as you wade thru some of the muck we encounter in life.

 

[In Anticipation]

I find if you get your round in early the drinkers will generally forget about you later, hard to describe but it kind of works out. I bought two vodka and cokes and one soft drink at the weekend and it came to virtually a tenner, your prices up there seem lower. And that was for somewhere that IF you got there early and IF you were on the guest list you still paid a tenner to get in. Go figure!

I've never had a problem getting into the swing of things, drinking or not. I know some people do though.

 

[NippleMuncher]

The most important bit of information that I'm seeing is that elib257 has recognized a pattern and potential problem on her own, and is choosing to take steps to correct it. Kudo's kid, you deserve them!

I don't buy into "hereditary alcoholism". Your propensity for drink has nothing to do with what your relatives did in their lifetimes, it has everything to do with the choices you make. Sure, if you grew up in an alcoholic environment, you may be more inclined to drink than someone from a tea-totaling household. But, that would be because of learned behaviors, not any genetic mutation on the account of alcohol.

To me, I see you're recognizing a potential problem and are making a conscious choice to take the higher road. This does not mean that you have to stop drinking entirely, but only you can decide that. If you feel that you can have a drink or two in social situations, then by all means, do so. However, if you think that one drink will lead to 10 or more and all the associated ramifications, then drinking is not something you can afford to do at this time.

 

[elib257]

If you feel that you can have a drink or two in social situations, then by all means, do so. However, if you think that one drink will lead to 10 or more and all the associated ramifications, then drinking is not something you can afford to do at this time.

I think this is the most important bit for me. It's become appararent that once I've had a drink and I'm in the right situation with the right people then I will not stop. It's a formula. It's something that I'll have to bear in mind when I do decide to drink again. So, when all of the factors are present then I'll not drink but if one's missing I'll be safe to have one or two.

I do feel like I'm turning into a bit of an alcoholism bore... mostly because I keep logging on here. When I told my friends last night that I wouldn't be drinking I just said 'I'm trying it out for a while to see how it fits'. Luckily they were mostly okay although there was some banter about how 'wooooonderful' the wine tasted...

I meant the comment about the rounds as a joke, although I can see it didn't really come across as that. Rounds are expensive but I'm mindful of not turning into a bore and as it's just a legitimate outlet for group cohesion so I'm all for it. We don't often buy in rounds, most of my friends are still students after all ...

Once again thanks for all of the comments they are all appreciated.

 

[LukkyKnight]

I do feel like I'm turning into a bit of an alcoholism bore... mostly because I keep logging on here. When I told my friends last night that I wouldn't be drinking I just said 'I'm trying it out for a while to see how it fits'. Luckily they were mostly okay although there was some banter about how 'wooooonderful' the wine tasted...

We need to talk about what's going on in our lives. The people who get bored will leave or tune out. Stick with your plan and enjoy life.

 

[Weird Harold]

I meant the comment about the rounds as a joke, although I can see it didn't really come across as that. Rounds are expensive but I'm mindful of not turning into a bore ...

You may have meant it as a joke, but it is a common friction point between ex-drinkers and their driniking buddies and something you'll have to watch for.

The "the wine tastes wooonderful" routine frm your friends is funny the first few times, but it can get annoying after a while.

These little annoyances add up over time into real problems unless you head them off or learn to deal with them early -- right now, think of them as "warning signs" rather than problems, bu tthink ahead to how you'll deal with escalations.

 

[elib257]

We need to talk about what's going on in our lives. The people who get bored will leave or tune out. Stick with your plan and enjoy life.

Thankyou for that Lukky, I feel a almost conceited with all this talk about me.

I appreciate everybody's input.

 

[Mansa Musa]

Hiya, thanks again to everybody.

First things first, I really appreciate everybody's input and have not felt let down by anybody. Even Mr Essex who seems a bit more blunt. What you're saying Mr Essex is of course correct, the problem is doing it. As I have said before there's no excusing what I do, it's wrong and I've admitted it. What I meant by this thread (and from the replies I've had I think most people got it) was a general discussion about abstinence and how it might be achieved without want to seem like the sad, boring, lonely, loser. But thankyou Mr Essex, bluntness has its place and if I were to reply to a thread like this without being in the situation, that's the reply I would give.

I'm not going to reply to each individually but I can't thank you all enough, it's been read and digested.

Just a little update, I went to the pub today. It wasn't a big session but most people had 3/4 drinks. I had 2 tonic waters . I still enjoyed the night and was laughing and joining in. The only problem is my drinks cost about 90p each and I was still being included in rounds! Might have to think about that one...

Anyway, I know it's not much, but I've literally never been to the pub without drinking so it's a step and I enjoyed it.

Thankyou everyone.

You have nice breasts, and you´re welcome.

And I´ve been in this stuation. My solution was simple: to remember that I am in control. Not the drink, or my co-workers, just me.

 

[elib257]

You have nice breasts, and you´re welcome.

And I´ve been in this stuation. My solution was simple: to remember that I am in control. Not the drink, or my co-workers, just me.

Thankyou And yes, you're right of course.

 

[photo_chick]

I don't buy into "hereditary alcoholism". Your propensity for drink has nothing to do with what your relatives did in their lifetimes,

Do you not buy into "hereditary diabetes" either? How about "hereditary depression"? Or "hereditary heart disease"?

Whether you "buy into it" or not, the FACT is that the propensity for addictive behavior is partially hereditary. Yes, it can be further determined by environment, but there are genetic pointers that determine an individual's ability to handle alcohol, drugs, food, etc. and whether or not they're more or less likely to develop addictive behaviors around those items (or others).

It pisses me off no end to see people who obviously have no clue make pronouncements like this and act like it's all a matter of willpower. May you never have to deal with this in your own life or in the life of someone you love - but if you do, maybe you'll actually learn something about it.

 

[NippleMuncher]

It pisses me off no end to see people who obviously have no clue make pronouncements like this and act like it's all a matter of willpower. May you never have to deal with this in your own life or in the life of someone you love - but if you do, maybe you'll actually learn something about it.

You're welcome to be as pissed off as you like, but don't for a second assume to know me, my life's experiences, or whether or not I "have a clue". On this topic, and in this instance, it absolutely boils down to will power, personal choice, and personal responsibility. If that were not the case, I would not have made the comments I did. If you want to get pissed off at something, get pissed off at folks who won't take responsibility for their actions and their co-dependents that allow them to perpetuate their ways.

 

[In Anticipation]

Do you not buy into "hereditary diabetes" either? How about "hereditary depression"? Or "hereditary heart disease"?

Whether you "buy into it" or not, the FACT is that the propensity for addictive behavior is partially hereditary. Yes, it can be further determined by environment, but there are genetic pointers that determine an individual's ability to handle alcohol, drugs, food, etc. and whether or not they're more or less likely to develop addictive behaviors around those items (or others).

It pisses me off no end to see people who obviously have no clue make pronouncements like this and act like it's all a matter of willpower. May you never have to deal with this in your own life or in the life of someone you love - but if you do, maybe you'll actually learn something about it.

I meant to respond to that too. There is plenty of evidence to alcoholism having a gentically determined element, and also indications that it should be treated as a disease. I'm lucky, I think it's extremely unlikely that I would become an alcoholic, even though I do enjoy the occasional drink. That doesn't mean I'm not prone to other, non-chemical addictions.

 

[In Anticipation]

You're welcome to be as pissed off as you like, but don't for a second assume to know me, my life's experiences, or whether or not I "have a clue". On this topic, and in this instance, it absolutely boils down to will power, personal choice, and personal responsibility. If that were not the case, I would not have made the comments I did. If you want to get pissed off at something, get pissed off at folks who won't take responsibility for their actions and their co-dependents that allow them to perpetuate their ways.

This is the opinion of AA. I'm not questioning that will power and personal responsibility have a role to play, these are basic facts backed up by scientific research.

The Role of Heredity in Alcoholism


Like many other diseases, alcoholism is influenced by both hereditary and
environmental factors that are being increasingly well defined. Experts
now believe that alcoholism arises from a wide range of physiological,
psychological, social and genetic factors.

Genetics

Alcoholism tends to run in families, and genetic factors partially
explain this pattern. Researchers are looking for the genes that
influence vulnerability to alcoholism. They are also exploring the
relationship between genetics and environment.

Genetic risk to alcoholism, however, is not destiny. A child of an
alcoholic parent will not automatically develop alcoholism, and a person
with no family history of alcoholism can become alcohol dependent.

Children of Alcoholics (COAs)

According to the National Clearinghouse for Alcohol and Drug Information
(NCADI), children of alcoholics generally:

* Are at high risk for alcohol and other drug problems.
* Often live with pervasive tension and stress.
* Have higher levels of anxiety and depression.
* Do poorly in school.
* Experience problems with coping.

Regardless of whether COAs are raised by alcoholics, they are at risk for
alcoholism or alcoholism-related problems. However, the good news is that
COAs can learn to trust, handle their feelings in healthy ways, and build
positive, nurturing relationships, all of which help protect them from
alcohol problems. While you cannot change your genes, you can change your
unhealthy living patterns and how you deal with outside pressures.

I highlighted a section I thought pertinent.

 

[Ezzy]

Binge drinking is where you're at, follow the link and read up on some of the things that can happen to you.

I too am a reformed Lush, and like Weird Harold I changed my ways after being told I would be dead inside a year if I didn't.

I was living in Nottingham at the time, strange coincidence there hey!

I used to drink in the union bar 20 - 30 (Imp) pints / day, 6 for lunch the rest for an evenings drinking. I would also drink weekends at The Trip, and a couple of pubs on the Derby Rd.

I have booze and beer in the house now, in fact a bottle of bourbon within arms reach, but I will always ask my wife before I have a drink and it is only the one, (that day), when we party with family, (4 - 5 time a year), and there is a designated driver agreed before hand, I will get a buzz on and maintain it all day.

But after 26 years of doing this, I can leave it alone or drink...but the two other voices in my head one saying "drink", and the other saying "stop drinking" are there every time I pick up a glass or a can, it is a choice that needs to be made with every bottle or can, every schooner or pint, even sip by sip!

Binge drinking is not limited to the British, take a look at any video of Spring Break in America!

 

[_me_]

Hi, my sister is an alcoholic. My brother also, but hasn't drunk for over 10 years. He went to AA & found them the best. My sister says AA isn't for her......because she's in denial & doesn't want to truly stop.

True alcoholics destroy themselves & everyone around them. They only care about themselves, but this is the disease. They believe they drink to solve problems, when in fact the problem is the drink. They can't live with it, but can't live without it.

My sister can stop for weeks & then goes on a complete bender, usually ending in a suicide attempt.

I think your binge drinking isn't showing signs of an alcoholic, but if it's affecting your life, then it's a serious problem. If your having blackouts, I would class it as serious!

Your doctor should have advice on an alcohol team which maybe they could refer you to. They are more geared to cutting down, which may be more relevant to you.

Hope you don't think I'm preaching, I'm just posting from a personal perspective. xx

 

[elib257]

Hi again everybody.

Just thought I'd write a bit about the genetics thing. My Granddad was certainly an alcoholic as we would see it but he was Irish and (at the risk of stereotyping) it was acceptable behaviour within his social circle, so he never felt the need to stop. So if it is hereditary then I've got a bit of it in my blood.

I don't know whether alcoholism is hereditary. Nobody possibly can know because it is too difficult to pinpoint cause and effect and there can be no certainty with such complex issues. However, that is also the argument put forward by smokers who claim there is no 'proof' that smoking causes cancer, and of course there isn't - just a very evident causal link.

For what it's worth, whether alcoholism or alcohol problems is genetic is really a mott point seeing as the only way to stop is is through a change in behaviour. Whether that change be through cognitive behavioural therapy or willpower or whatever. What is definitely needed in my case is willpower.

Once again I appreciate all comments and links. And _me_ , I don't think you're preaching. Going to the doctor's is probably a good place to start. Thankyou everybody!

 

[In Anticipation]

Hmm, I used to go drinking in Nottingham too, now you mention it. There is a bit of a drinking culture there, I remember the police scooping people off the pavements after closing time too, to an extent I've never seen elsewhere.

 

[elib257]

Hmm, I used to go drinking in Nottingham too, now you mention it. There is a bit of a drinking culture there, I remember the police scooping people off the pavements after closing time too, to an extent I've never seen elsewhere.

On the weekend after my 18th birthday they started a big crackdown - you can imagine how disappointed I was back then lol. I think there's a lot of problems in Nottingham - a lot of social inequality, gun/violent crime and a huge binge drinking culture. But it's a good place in general. I like it.

 

[In Anticipation]

On the weekend after my 18th birthday they started a big crackdown - you can imagine how disappointed I was back then lol. I think there's a lot of problems in Nottingham - a lot of social inequality, gun/violent crime and a huge binge drinking culture. But it's a good place in general. I like it.

I'm talking a while back, longer ago than I care to remember!

 

[Ezzy]

Hmm, I used to go drinking in Nottingham too, now you mention it. There is a bit of a drinking culture there, I remember the police scooping people off the pavements after closing time too, to an extent I've never seen elsewhere.

Down in Slab Square by Yates Wine Lodge they used to have a squad of extra large officers ready for throwing out time. Two were in the 6'6" size and 22 stone, there were 3 or 4 around 6'2" and 20 stone.

They always had a couple of Transits parked up by the cinema, and they didn't take shit from drunks, you got warned once to "quiet down and take it home sonny" before you were off to sit in the back of the paddy wagon till it was full, and then it was a trip to the Central Police Station, to await the magistrates court on it's next sitting. They only worked Monday - Friday so if you got picked up on a Friday night you could be in the cells ill Monday morning.

 

[In Anticipation]

Down in Slab Square by Yates Wine Lodge they used to have a squad of extra large officers ready for throwing out time. Two were in the 6'6" size and 22 stone, there were 3 or 4 around 6'2" and 20 stone.

They always had a couple of Transits parked up by the cinema, and they didn't take shit from drunks, you got warned once to "quiet down and take it home sonny" before you were off to sit in the back of the paddy wagon till it was full, and then it was a trip to the Central Police Station, to await the magistrates court on it's next sitting. They only worked Monday - Friday so if you got picked up on a Friday night you could be in the cells ill Monday morning.

I remember it well . . .

In wonder if Yates Wine Lodge is still there? I seemed then like an 18th century relic, very Hogarthian as I recall.

 

[alaskabibear]

One More Bit

elib, you are getting a lot of good input here and I don't have too much to add that hasn't been said. But, in the spirit of helpfulness I offer this;

You should re-read the post by VelvetDarkness above. Especially the part about finding something new to add into your life. I think, for many of us, bad decisions (such as drinking and drugs) started when we were young and were strongly influenced by the peer group which we happened to fall into. Then, as we get a bit older, that peer group becomes solidified into our "friends" and we find that we are somewhat locked into a lifestyle that we don't recall choosing and are not sure how to change. You are fortunate that you have been blessed with a good mind and are starting to ask the question; "How did I get here, and do I want to stay"? But, the sad fact is that you will forever be struggling to change your drinking habits so long as you hang out with and fill your entire life with drinkers who are drinking in the pub/club. It's like joining the swim club but never going in the water - eventually you just don't fit in unless you decide jump in with them. You are at that "deciding time" in your life - do you stay or change? - you choose....

And one little thought I try to live by (when I can remember to remember it);
Thoughts lead to actions,
Actions lead to habits,
Habits lead to character,
And, character is who we are...