AI Allegations Thread

[MillieDynamite]

I don't know what the person did or didn't do. My work is seldom flagged when I run it through an AI detector. Maybe a few yellow highlights. But there is hardly anything I need to change, and, more often than not, I don't.

somebody else said ai detectors flag simplistic writing so does anybody really know what the hell it looks for

if I was to try to write a story that wasn't part of an experiment and I read through all these different takes my head would be spinning and I would be saying wtf how am I supposed to write to get shit posted here lol

also someone said he ran his story through like five different ai detectors and edited the hell out of it until the detectors said it was all human and he STILL got rejected. So yeah my humble opinion is this is not the best advice for folks even if they are willing to change their work to get published here

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I submitted a story on Thursday and it posted on Saturday but maybe that has to do with the category more than anything else. If you see your submission date reset that is a pretty good indication you have been flagged for ai and it will get kicked back soon

It still says submitted 12/06/23. I'm not sure why they would change the date I posted it for review.

My latest has been pending for a week and it's nerve wracking when you are used to quick approvals.

I keep going back and forth between being worried that it's flagged for AI, she's just really busy, and it's stuck in Limbo.

No, idea myself. Millie keeps telling me not to worry.

 

[alohadave]

It still says submitted 12/06/23. I'm not sure why they would change the date I posted it for review.

Mine changed the submitted date a couple days into to it for some reason. But I pulled it back to make some edits, so I have no idea what it means.

No, idea myself. Millie keeps telling me not to worry.

Easier said than done when it's your own story.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yes, I do.

It still says submitted 12/06/23. I'm not sure why they would change the date I posted it for review.

No, idea myself. Millie keeps telling me not to worry.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Don't worry, @alohadave, it doesn't change the outcome.

Mine changed the submitted date a couple days into to it for some reason. But I pulled it back to make some edits, so I have no idea what it means.

Easier said than done when it's your own story.

 

[SyleusSnow]

Bonus fun: most of the companies that provide AI detectors also make tools to help evade AI detectors.

I asked DALL-E to illustrate that exact concept
View attachment 2295805

 

[NoTalentHack]

ok but if the detectors are detecting "common" writing that is boring why were high rated stories here that people obviously enjoyed reading getting taken down

Truthfully? Because common writing can be very effective. It’s easy to follow, it gets the point across, and it’s what people are used to, especially in a context like this, i.e., a porn site.

I'm not trying to dunk on anyone; I know my stuff isn't nearly as pretty or polished as it could be. I put a few clever things in my stories as hooks--the kind of stuff I drop in the Just One Line thread--but they're mostly there as seasoning. That's the dirty little open secret of almost every artistic pursuit: what consumers want to read is mostly not what producers are told they should want to create. And if you, as a producer, say "Nah, I'm good, I like what I make?" Well, you're not a "real" artist, then.

I'll never claim that the Marvel movies are high art, for example, but they're what people want to see, at least before superhero fatigue set in. But they don't win Academy awards, outside of technical ones, because the Academy are "artists," so the Best Picture winners are, 90% of the time, some movie that exists purely to be Oscar bait.

Brandon Sanderson is a huge bestseller, and within his genre, he receives plenty of awards, but he's never going to win, say, a National Book Critics award. Those are awards for people who read tons and tons of books, and they're looking for absolutely sublime (and therefore often difficult) prose, stories that make you work for them, etc.

Most of the tools that we use, whether those are AI ones or "How to Write a Novel" books are made by people that buy into the rules of how stories in the 21st century "should" be told. But that means from a critico-commercial standpoint: write this way if you want to stand out to an agent, then an editor, then a publisher. Some of the advice--most, really--is also good for getting your point across and making yourself more impactful to what we can think of as "lay" readers, like trying to use active as opposed to passive voice when appropriate, being careful to use repetition only when you mean to, etc. But a lot of it is how to differentiate yourself from the people that have come before, but ONLY in a way that won't bore a decisionmaker.

If you're good, you can do both of those things at once, at least to some extent. But the old adage, "a man cannot serve two masters" is true as much here as anywhere.

Let me give you an example. This is from currently the number 1 rated story (not number 1 most read), starting with Home for Horny Monsters Ch. 107, currently rated at 4.96 stars.

Despite the rising summer sun, the temperature in front of Mike Radley's home was downright cold. Members of the SoS and the Order huddled together by the command center in order to share body heat, casting wary glances toward the house. Cyrus, who had spent the night on a spare cot in the tent, stepped out into the chill and pulled his coat around him. Noticing the pained expressions on the faces of others, he feigned rubbing his arms for warmth. They needed false sympathy from him, not the knowledge that his coat had been enchanted for bad weather.

"What's with this cold?" he asked a group of men standing away from the others, already knowing the answer. Yuki was fully responsible for the chill in the air. If it hadn't been in the upper eighties the day before, he was convinced snow would be drifting from above already. Neither the SoS nor the Order had been prepared for the sudden dip in temperature, and cold weather gear was being rushed to them from a storage facility nearly six hours away.

"No idea," said one of the men, and the group opened up to allow Cyrus to stand among them. "Don't you guys know some spells to keep warm or something?"

"Sure do," he replied, then stuck his hand in a pocket and pulled out a pair of rods. "You ever see these before? Tuck one in the back of your belt and it will keep you from freezing up. Here, let me show you how the enchantment works."

That's good stuff! It's well written, it's clear, but it also gives you a sense of place, character, etc. in a very few short exchanges, using well-selected words put together obeying most of the rules we're "supposed" to use. It's also the 107th in a series, so it's mostly the people that were already reading it rating it, but it's good along most metrics. For reference, Sapling puts this at 0.1% generated content.

And a literary fiction agent would still think it's trash. Maybe promising trash, if only they would talk more about the human condition, or make more obtuse references that required their reader to dig in or, preferentially, to already be well-read before coming to it or or or. A genre fiction editor would probably love it, though. And that's what we're writing here: genre fiction.

ETA: Annabelle is a professional writer, with releases on Amazon and Audible, so this is to be expected. I'm not saying everyone needs to measure up to that standard. I sure as hell don't.

However, they'd both hate the number one most read, Sitting on My Son's Lap, currently rated 4.42 stars:

It was August. We spent the morning packing the car. Our son, Mike was leaving for college. It was morning but already it was 90 degrees outside. Mike and husband, and I were getting pretty sweaty loading up the car. The trunk was already full and the back seat wouldn't fit much more. Mike went back in the house to get the last of his things.

I heard him come out of the house. I turned around and saw him carrying his 42 inch flat screen TV.

"Where are you going to put the TV?" I heard his father ask.

"I don't know, but I don't want to leave it. Maybe we can move some stuff around in the back seat."

I looked in the back seat. "I don't think so, son." Mike looked in the car. "We can put it in the middle of the front seat."

"Ok, college man," I said. "Then where is your mom going to sit?"

Simple, declarative sentences, passive voice all over the place, glue words like "pretty" scattered around, and on and on. Sapling pegged it at 100%, when it clearly can't be, since it's far too old.

And yet, they're only .5 stars distance from each other in the ratings. I have no doubt that Sitting on My Son's Lap has gotten more than its fair share of 1-bombings over the years. And, as mentioned before, Home for Horny Monsters Ch. 107 has the advantage that it's the 107th in a series that only the most dedicated fan or the most dedicated hatereader is going to keep reading. But there are clearly quality differences in the two that at least partially account for the difference in scores.

Quality is only loosely correlated with ratings anywhere, but especially when you're dealing with an open ratings system like here on Lit. More importantly, though, "quality" is something you'll almost never get both fans/lay-readers and "real" critics and writers to agree on.

As a counterexample--and I'm not going to name any names--I've read some stuff where the person was SO in love with the words and the clever things they could do to them that I could barely get through their work here, too. Like, if someone paid me to, I would, but that's not what I'm here for, even if I'm not trying to read smut. It was hard to read not because it was bad, but because it was "good" in the eyes of people that would applaud that sort of thing, because they are also so in love with words that they've seen all the "boring" configurations already. And it was in the 3.X range as a result.

This is a free site, where unpaid authors are putting what are often their first works, or at least their first works since high school, up for people to see. Truly awful stuff only rarely makes it past the moderators here to begin with. Really excellent stuff is rare, at least when it comes to the formation of individual sentences, word choice, etc. Middling stuff, which is the vast majority, has gotten through in the past, but now it also has to make it past the watchful eyes of an AI detector tuned to spot middling writing, and that's where the problems arise, especially because the line for "middling" is wildly different for pro and semi-pro writers and most readers.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Still flagged as having complicated sentence structure. I don't really feel there is a significant difference in the way it reads.

If you don't give it anything to work with, it won't do any good. The more you give it about the world, the setting, the kind of story and so on, the better the result will be. Also, a setting like this isn't the best to shine...


User
You are my ghostwriter.
Your primary task is to advance the plot predominantly through dialogue, using conversations between characters to weave the story.
Always strive to depict the emotions of the characters, either through their spoken words or through external descriptions, giving the reader a vivid understanding of their feelings.
Keep the sentences simple and keep the flowery speech down.
I will provide additional background information enclosed in """ for you to integrate into the narrative.
Commands not intended for text generation will be enclosed in {}.
Do you comprehend the instructions?

ChatGPT
Yes, I understand the instructions. As your ghostwriter, I'll focus on advancing the plot primarily through dialogue, ensuring that characters' emotions are vividly depicted either through their words or through descriptive narrative. I'll also integrate any additional background information you provide. Feel free to start with the plot details or character descriptions, and I'll begin weaving the story accordingly.

User
Write a 2-paragraph introduction about a happy woman called Emily. She is an extrovert, loves flowers, gardens and public parks. It is a sunny, warm day and she enjoys being outside and lets others be part of that.

2 / 2

ChatGPT
Emily was the kind of woman who found joy in the simplest things, and her love for nature was evident in her radiant smile. An extrovert at heart, she thrived in the open air, especially on sunny, warm days like this one. Her enthusiasm for life was as infectious as her laughter, and she had an innate ability to make those around her feel just as alive as she did. Emily's passion for flowers and gardens wasn't just a hobby; it was a part of who she was. Her frequent visits to public parks were not just for her own enjoyment, but an opportunity to share her love for nature with others.

As she walked through the bustling park, the sounds of children playing and birds chirping filled the air. Emily's presence seemed to add to the park's vibrancy, her eyes sparkling with delight at the sight of blooming flowers and lush greenery. She moved among the pathways, often stopping to admire a particularly beautiful flower or to share a friendly word with a fellow nature enthusiast. The warm sunlight highlighted her features, casting a glow that mirrored the happiness in her heart. Emily's love for the outdoors was more than just a pastime; it was a way for her to connect with the world and the people in it.

 

[SyleusSnow]

that is probably what will happen when people are falsely accused and are told to edit their stories until it doesn't even sound like their own writing anymore so they can have a bot give them a thumbs up that they sound human enough

And if Lit doesn't grow up about this issue, authors leaving is exactly what will happen. Maybe it already is.

I've read that universities are using these detectors along with the plagiarism detectors they're used for decades. But they know the AI detectors are garbage so don't treat their opinions as solid truth.

Presumably the detectors are trained on vast swathes of writing generated by ChatGPT and others. But ChatGPT and the others are trained on vast swathes of real human writing. Anyone see the problem here?

Interestingly, the AI companies are having problems training their new models. When they first started scraping the web and copyrighted work, it was all human created. Now there's so much AI-generated stuff is out there they're having a hard time keeping it out of the next set of models. Feeding AI generated content back into AI models poisons the well, so to speak.

But again I wonder... what's the actual harm in using AI writing assistants, especially if it makes the writing better? The Literotica FAQ on AI has hand-wringing about copyright. Fair enough, but if that's a concern, they should be using plagiarism detectors instead.

 

[StillStunned]

If you don't give it anything to work with, it won't do any good. The more you give it about the world, the setting, the kind of story and so on, the better the result will be. Also, a setting like this isn't the best to shine...


User
You are my ghostwriter.
Your primary task is to advance the plot predominantly through dialogue, using conversations between characters to weave the story.
Always strive to depict the emotions of the characters, either through their spoken words or through external descriptions, giving the reader a vivid understanding of their feelings.
Keep the sentences simple and keep the flowery speech down.
I will provide additional background information enclosed in """ for you to integrate into the narrative.
Commands not intended for text generation will be enclosed in {}.
Do you comprehend the instructions?

ChatGPT
Yes, I understand the instructions. As your ghostwriter, I'll focus on advancing the plot primarily through dialogue, ensuring that characters' emotions are vividly depicted either through their words or through descriptive narrative. I'll also integrate any additional background information you provide. Feel free to start with the plot details or character descriptions, and I'll begin weaving the story accordingly.

User
Write a 2-paragraph introduction about a happy woman called Emily. She is an extrovert, loves flowers, gardens and public parks. It is a sunny, warm day and she enjoys being outside and lets others be part of that.

2 / 2

ChatGPT
Emily was the kind of woman who found joy in the simplest things, and her love for nature was evident in her radiant smile. An extrovert at heart, she thrived in the open air, especially on sunny, warm days like this one. Her enthusiasm for life was as infectious as her laughter, and she had an innate ability to make those around her feel just as alive as she did. Emily's passion for flowers and gardens wasn't just a hobby; it was a part of who she was. Her frequent visits to public parks were not just for her own enjoyment, but an opportunity to share her love for nature with others.

As she walked through the bustling park, the sounds of children playing and birds chirping filled the air. Emily's presence seemed to add to the park's vibrancy, her eyes sparkling with delight at the sight of blooming flowers and lush greenery. She moved among the pathways, often stopping to admire a particularly beautiful flower or to share a friendly word with a fellow nature enthusiast. The warm sunlight highlighted her features, casting a glow that mirrored the happiness in her heart. Emily's love for the outdoors was more than just a pastime; it was a way for her to connect with the world and the people in it.

My patented AI detector (which runs on reading a text and spotting how awful it is) is flagging this as AI. Almost every sentence has two clauses, which makes the pacing and rhythm feel off. It's a whole sequence of telling, with little connection from one sentence to the next. The structure is incredibly repetitive.

Oh, and the AI doesn't understand the difference between a colon and a semi-colon.

 

[NoTalentHack]

these are good points and I understand what you are saying. But a shitty ai detector clocked one of your stories at like 80% ai according to the troll. So my point is maybe we should not try to judge writing quality based on whatever result an ai detector gives

and the thing is if someone is writing here and getting great scores and really positive feedback from readers then why would they want to change what they're doing just because they suddenly get flagged? I know I know they have to if they want to keep posting here but that's a shitty position to put people in and I know you realize that

Oh, no, that's precisely what I AM saying. The theoretical purpose of AI detectors is almost wholly in conflict with vetting submissions to a free website. By the very nature of the people posting here, they're 99% amateurs trying to do their best, which is exactly what AI detectors are going to catch.

Out of curiosity, I ran a story I'm working on through Sapling, and it (or at least the first 400 words or so) came through as 0.0% AI content; but that's after 50 published stories written to get to that point! Is that really the bar we want to use? I don't think so.

 

[alohadave]

Oh, and the AI doesn't understand the difference between a colon and a semi-colon.

Many writers can't tell the difference either, and randomly throw them in. Which doesn't matter that much because readers don't know how they work either.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I am not a troll.

I'm not making my point clear. I don't support writing by AI. I write for pleasure, I read for pleasure. I tend to write, to a degree, based on the stories I read. That is, I write in certain styles, based on my reading. If it is a mystery or thriller, my writing is noirish, and if I'm writing about a prostitute, it's from experiences I've had or observed. If it is romantic, NOT OFTEN, it's in the style of whatever romance I've read at some point. I only ran work through the checks to show why the work was rejected. Let me be clear on this, I don't want work rejected for bad writing, suspected AI, or other nonspecific reasons.

 

[alohadave]

Mine changed the submitted date a couple days into to it for some reason. But I pulled it back to make some edits, so I have no idea what it means.

Easier said than done when it's your own story.

And it's approved, posting tomorrow. I feel happy now. Crazy how we chase those endorphins.

 

[MillieDynamite]

OIC

I want to apologize because I obviously wasn't clear but I definitely didn't mean you are a troll. I was talking about ddx who ran one of nth's stories through a detector and said it came back 80% ai. Then ddx said they were going to report nth for ai. Ddx also said they spent two days running all of nth's stories through a detector so that was who I was calling a troll

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

All's well on the western front (western being Denver), as my story goes live tonight (at midnight somewhere). Forbidden Fling a Husband’s Gift is, of course, an interracial cuckolding story. The bull is a bit ruthless and insensitive. It was an experiment, and I'm pleased with its sales. But it isn't one of my favorites; I think I made the bull too unlikable, and women like him too much for how she was treated. But only time will tell what Lit readers feel about it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I told you not to worry. All the worry in the world doesn't change one whit of what will be. It only makes you miserable until whatever happens, happens.

All's well on the western front (western being Denver), as my story goes live tonight (at midnight somewhere). Forbidden Fling a Husband’s Gift is, of course, an interracial cuckolding story. The bull is a bit ruthless and insensitive. It was an experiment, and I'm pleased with its sales. But it isn't one of my favorites; I think I made the bull too unlikable, and women like him too much for how she was treated. But only time will tell what Lit readers feel about it.

 

[theWollstonecraftWoman]

I told you not to worry. All the worry in the world doesn't change one whit of what will be. It only makes you miserable until whatever happens, happens.

Yes, Mommy.

 

[StillStunned]

I don't know whether anyone's been following the news, but there seems to have been a breakthrough in legislating AI in the EU. I'm still recovering from a heavy lunch, so I'm not going to try and make sense of the details. But at a glance, it seems that it will become mandatory to inform users of any AI-generated content.

 

[alohadave]

I don't know whether anyone's been following the news, but there seems to have been a breakthrough in legislating AI in the EU. I'm still recovering from a heavy lunch, so I'm not going to try and make sense of the details. But at a glance, it seems that it will become mandatory to inform users of any AI-generated content.

I just read the press release, and it's vague on the details, with the expected exception for military and national security use.

Doesn't take effect until 2025 at the earliest.

 

[MillieDynamite]

And how do you suppose they enforce the rule?

I don't know whether anyone's been following the news, but there seems to have been a breakthrough in legislating AI in the EU. I'm still recovering from a heavy lunch, so I'm not going to try and make sense of the details. But at a glance, it seems that it will become mandatory to inform users of any AI-generated content.

 

[StillStunned]

And how do you suppose they enforce the rule?

I'm thinking some kind of really smart software, perhaps something that can be taught to think for itself...

 

[MillieDynamite]

Let us hope not!!!!

I'm thinking some kind of really smart software, perhaps something that can be taught to think for itself...

 

[TheRedChamber]

I used ChatGPT for the following. I consider this dreadful.



View attachment 2295762
Both Grammarly and ProWritingAid agree with me. Does any writer want their writing to sound like this reads

I hate Emily so much.

But then I love misery.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'm thinking some kind of really smart software, perhaps something that can be taught to think for itself...

Smart Characterisation of AI.

"SCAInet" for short.