Ahem...How Deep Can You Go?

[amicus]

In a story I am working on, my characters, male and female, become aware that with deep penetration she feels him pushing on something inside her and he feels it also.

As I have felt that same sensation I figured I could write about it, but then...ahem, well, just what was it I was pushing against and why?

So I googled, sue me...


~~~~


In recent surveys where medical professionals or trained volunteers measured men's erections, penis length turned out to be shorter and penis girth smaller than in Kinsey's figures! So assuming that our penises aren't miraculously shrinking as the years go by, we can take as a good average the figures that were produced by the Lifestyles Condom Company survey in 2002 and by The-penis.com [ http://www.the-penis.com/index.html ] in 2003. Here they are: the average length of a white male penis is 5.9 inches; the average girth of a white male penis is 4.9 inches. (In case you're wondering, on average black men are about half an inch greater in length and girth, while Asian men are about half an inch shorter.)

-------

Now, how does that match the average vagina size? Well, when a woman's not aroused, her vagina's unlikely to be more than 3 inches long, and it's hardly ever more than 4 inches. It's true that as she gets more sexually aroused her vagina swells and lengthens, but even at the peak of sexual arousal, the average vaginal length before penetration is a mere 5 inches. So, you may ask, what happens when a woman takes all of a well-endowed man inside her? And here's the interesting thing - a woman's vagina can expand to as much as 8 inches in length during the penetration of a large penis (or anything else that happens to be in there!) if she happens to be very aroused, but taking a penis this long would be stretching it to the point of discomfort for most women. And some of this apparent increase in length is due to the uterus moving up and tipping back, so that the man's penis can effectively slide under the cervix as he thrusts - and, should he hit the cervix, most women would find it painful.

http://www.penis-website.com/vagina-penis-size-1.html

~~~~


There are some other interesting notations in that article...which is just an article, I have no means to determine the veracity, concerning feeling only within the first two inches of penetration and the proverbial 'G' spot which appears to be a manipulation of the urinary bladder?

I was really searching for an indication of the pleasure/pain index of a penis probing the cervix and for the 'tightness' of the stretching of the vaginal opening, and the 'fullness' sensed by the female during the full penetration of intercourse, but I think I can only speculate or gather information from experience.

But I will appreciate your comments as always...


amicus...

 

[S-Des]

I've seen a lot of these, and they always leave me scratching my head. I never had a lover tell me I went too deep, despite the fact that I'm easily longer than the numbers in the article. I've had several partners tell me I'm "just right", which I used to take the wrong way (kind of like someone telling you that you have a good personality). I've been told by two that they were intimate with guys longer than myself who were painful, but I don't know how you can use that (since they didn't have specific measurements or ways to quantify how good a lover the man was). I've also seen videos of women (not always pros) who take penises that are easily over 8" long, with very little preparation.

Honestly, the whole thing confuses me too. At least hanging out here I finally got it through my thick head that it really isn't about who's the biggest (at least not for a lot of women).

 

[amicus]

I understand S-Des...and agree...although back in the old days of 'diaphrams' a contraceptive device, I pushed up against that and really didn't like it a bit. But, as I mentioned, I have felt an obstruction or something without one of those in place and just wondered what the hell I was butting up against...

And...in following some of the other links imbedded within the one I posted, which I am still following...I begin to think that much of it is written by women who insist that oral sex, stimulation of the clitoris by mouth and tongue, is much more important than actual penetration and intercourse.

Who do you believe? I dunno...

thanks...


amicus...

 

[S-Des]

And...in following some of the other links imbedded within the one I posted, which I am still following...I begin to think that much of it is written by women who insist that oral sex, stimulation of the clitoris by mouth and tongue, is much more important than actual penetration and intercourse.

Who do you believe? I dunno...

thanks...


amicus...

One thing to consider with that is the strength of orgasms. Luckily, my girl comes easily either way, but prefers penetration orgasms to clitoral. She can have clitoral very quickly, but they are not as intense (usually). She is the first woman I've been able to consistently get to orgasm through intercourse (even with little or no foreplay). For some reason I just seem to "hit the right spots". In truth, it probably has to do more with our body mechanics than with my skill, but I do try my best.

I'll be interested to see responses from women about depth (they usually talk more about penis width than length). It is a common theme in the LW stories that some guy with a giant cock comes in and sweeps the helpless woman off her feet (somehow that didn't come out the way I meant it to ). I suspect that's more because of male insecurity than actual reality, but who knows? I've never claimed to understand women more than on an elementary level.

 

[amicus]

S-Des...interesting..thank you...yes...the "One thing to consider with that is the strength of orgasms. .."

Sighs...thanks again...my interest is now much just as a writer, I take what I get, whenever...but in my stories, I try, seek, strive, search for accuracy when I attempt to describe a clitoral climax or the convulsion of the uterus during a penetration and intercourse orgasm, as I am told and have read, two entirely separate and different experiences but as you well know, ones you and I will never experience.

What I posted was intended to be as 'factual' a representation of the 'mechanics' and physiology of the event sans any subjective interpretation.

And it is interesting, I think, to note, that 'factual' interpretations, even subjective experience related personal anecdotes, can be made more interesting and tittilating in fiction, at least I hope so.

Some of my stories are written from a female POV, thus I can only imagine and hope that I describe what I think they might feel with some degree of accuracy.

And since most of the ladies, (and I begin to think there are few who are not Lesbians here) hate my guts because I see and know too much about their nature, will not respond to this thread...maybe someone else could start one on a similar subject...

I always have a lot to learn...


amicus...

 

[minsue]

I don't have time at the moment for anything detailed, but I have a couple of things to answer there, Ami.

First - yes, it hurts when your cervix is accidentally jabbed. It's not a sharp pain, as such, but it's extremely uncomfortable and can be a real mood killer. (If you don't like butting against an obstruction, imagine how she feels?) It's more likely to happen, in my experience, when you rush into penetration and skimp on the foreplay.

Second - the g-spot is not the bladder. I promise.

 

[amicus]

Thank you Minsue...

For the 'first', I dunno...I be da poker and not da pokee, and in gentlemanly fashion, one usually proceeds with caution unless motivated beyond control. But I have learned that even with more than adequate foreplay, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, the occasion arises and not always to discomfort, but curiosity, which is why I posed the question. But mind you please that the quest is for the sake of literature and the desire to portray and relate with the highest degree of accuracy possible, not for personal gratification.

For part the second...an anatomical graphic of the vagina and related organs illustrates that the position of the 'G' spot, is about two inches in and up and back, and that places it only near the bladder. No literature I have read indicates any particular texture that might be determined by a curious middle finger in exploration, nor any protuberance such as a clitoral clump that one might search out, and the only visible proximity seems to be the bladder which I have been told, will 'squirt' upon manipulation.

And I dunno and can't know...so...you tell me?

?

amicus...

 

[Guest]

One thing that hasn't been covered here is that the position of the cervix can change, depending upon where a woman is in her cycle.

Mine tends to tilt back a bit, making it more difficult during a physical exam and Pap test for my OB to reach.

Hubby has no trouble - ahem.

The point, however, is that at certain times it is easier for the male to thrust with full penetration, depending upon the position, than other times.

And of course, unless the cervix is dilated, and I've read in stories where the man supposedly forces that open (please!) there is a definite ending point to penetration.

AND the G-spot is not the bladder.

 

[impressive]

No literature I have read indicates any particular texture that might be determined by a curious middle finger in exploration,

From http://www.sexinfo101.com/pw_gspot.shtml

This area inside the vagina typically has a different texture; ridged (not as smooth) as the rest of her vagina, and when aroused feels spongy.

From http://sexuality.about.com/od/anatomyresponse/ht/findyourgspot.htm

The texture of the g-spot area will likely be noticeably different from the typically smooth walls of the vagina. When you’re aroused it can expand,

From http://www.seductioninsider.com/sex_tips/g-spot.shtml

You’re looking for an area that is either swollen or a very different texture (one friend of mine said it felt like the ridges on the roof of your mouth just behind your front teeth).

From http://www.howtohavegoodsex.com/the.female.g-spot.robboy.htm

Another way to tell if you are indeed touching her g-spot is that there will be a change in texture. The g-spot area will feel fleshy, like a small area of wrinkled skin. In contrast, the surrounding area will feel taut. The shape of the g-spot is similar to an upright kidney bean.

... although whether any of this constitutes "literature" by your definition is anyone's guess.

 

[FallingToFly]

Just a quick side note- some women like having their cervix bumped. Some women like it a LOT. Not right off the bat of course- ouch! but with a proper warm-up and a build-up in tempo, force and depth of the thrusts- yeah.

Also, women who like that kind of thing have an entirely different sensation of orgasm from intercourse. Personally, if anyone touches my g-spot for any reason (unless it's theshaft of the penis moving over it) the night is over and I will retreat from the field of battle- it freaking hurts! But having my cervix bumped during sex, even bumped vigorously, never bothers me.

Until the next morning. Then I definitely sympathize with those ladies who don't like having their men "bottom out."

 

[Skip1934a]

Hmmm. I'll have to come back and read this when I have more time. Full body orgasms anyone?

 

[kiten69]

As Min said the "obstruction" that gets hit on deeper penetrations is the cervix. Personally my cervix is VERY sensitive, even the smallest "bump" causes me pain and generally I am VERY sore afterwards, like a really bad bellyache. This was a constant issue with all of my ex lovers, they seemed to think the harder they pushed the better the sensation. And telling them it was painful never seemed to work, it was about their pleasure and I was just a means to get them off.

My current S/O is a totally different story, he can go as deep, as hard and as fast as he wants and has yet to cause me pain (it probably has to do with the fact that his cock has a slight bend to it so it misses the "owee" spot since he is not lacking in length). Allow me to echo what has already been said...the g-spot is NOT the bladder.

BTW...great links Imp

 

[impressive]

But having my cervix bumped during sex, even bumped vigorously, never bothers me.

Don't have a cervix any more ... so it's not an issue. In the past, however, a cock bumping it never bothered me. It wasn't a factor one way or another.

 

[TheeGoatPig]

I'm going to be self concious enough the next time I have sex just due to the time between screws, but being above average in size, now I'm going to be worried about bottoming out and stuff...

 

[lipsofanangel]

I know that I've had 8" or more in there and haven't had any pain or even slight discomfort...which either means someone knows what they're doing, I REALLY expand in there or my cervix just plain doesn't care.

As for orgasms - touching just my clit works okay but if you want to see me ejaculate (yes, I'm a female that can do that), I have to have penetration and clitoral stimulation together. And as for oral? I think I'm one of the few it does nothing for.

I like seeing everyone's views on this!

 

[mismused]

delete

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Agreed, it's the cervix you're bumping up against. It is VERY nerve-rich, much more than the vagina itself. It's what usually causes women the most discomfort during labor and birth as it stretches open around the baby's head. It's also usually the source of cramps during menstruation as it dilates slightly to allow the tissue to pass through. (I can see men everywhere wincing *grin* as I head into the land of too much information...)

The cervix actually, as several have noted, can be a source of orgasm. It's called a "cervical orgasm" (go figure) and it's different from a clitoral or g-spot orgasm. (Women... we're so wonderfully complicated... ) I haven't had one, but I've known women who have, and they describe it as a 'deeper' kind of orgasm, a more overall body sort of thing...

But for most women in our culture, the cervix can cause a lot of pain. It actually holds a lot of feminine wounds... if you believe in that sort of thing... and if you want to achieve a cervical orgasm, some of that has to be released first. Which means a woman may get very emotional before she moves toward pleasure...

There are books out there about it, but David Deida's Enlightened Sex Manual is one that I know speaks of the cervical orgasm...

 

[buxxxom]

As I no longer have a cervix (emergency hysterectomy following childbirth), hitting it is not a problem, however, that said, I wouldn't like to go to the ER having torn open the vaginal canal (it is a closed canal). That is not something I want to 'splain to the ER staff. Hubby fits just fine. It still lengthens, though, when aroused, and can hold an entire hand (gasp!)

Also, to restate what others have said: the g-spot is NOT the bladder. Trust us on this! I like very firm pressure on my g-spot, and that is enough to make me ejaculate. If someone applied that same pressure to my bladder, it would not make me a happy camper.

 

[Pure]

i'm not sure at all that the cervix is 'nerve rich.' arent' minor scrapings and biosamples taken w/o anesthetic? but what do i know.

IF the above is true, the pain many feel upon 'bumping' has to do with the suspension of the uterus, etc, pushing the cervix pulls at some ligaments.

i found it interesting above that the cervix may end up moving aside: this would account for the "taking 8 in" stories; the end of the penis is in the posterior fornix (back chamber) of the vagina.

 

[Guest]

i'm not sure at all that the cervix is 'nerve rich.' arent' minor scrapings and biosamples taken w/o anesthetic? but what do i know.

IF the above is true, the pain many feel upon 'bumping' has to do with the suspension of the uterus, etc, pushing the cervix pulls at some ligaments.

i found it interesting above that the cervix may end up moving aside: this would account for the "taking 8 in" stories; the end of the penis is in the posterior fornix (back chamber) of the vagina.

Pure -

Yes, minor scrapings and even little "snips" are taken without anesthetic. My doctor said there would be minor discomfort and a bit of a pinch.

It hurt like hell. The cramping was beyond belief.

But maybe that was just me. At any rate, I now have a different doctor.

 

[minsue]

Pure -

Yes, minor scrapings and even little "snips" are taken without anesthetic. My doctor said there would be minor discomfort and a bit of a pinch.

It hurt like hell. The cramping was beyond belief.

But maybe that was just me. At any rate, I now have a different doctor.

No, it's not just you.

ETA: Having an anesthetic injection into the cervix is excruciating, as well. Possibly this is why they skip any anesthesia for scrapings?

 

[Guest]

No, it's not just you.

And I meant to say, I now have a female doctor.

 

[wordofvirtue]

Well, first, I'm a nurse. Things that go through a nurse's mind are sometimes odd to put it mildly. Anyway, it is conceivable that if the female partner was suffering from a mighty case of constipation, the male partner could (in theory at least) run up against hard stool sitting in the rectum. I don't mean from boffing her in the bum, I mean that it could be felt through the back (posterior) wall of the vagina. I doubt that she'd be much in the mood under those circumstances. But would it be possible? Yes. Probable is another matter.

When I am hot and all wound-up, being bumped in the cervix is not a bad thing. It's a good hurt -- a sensation jolt. Hammering away at it over and over, no thanks. Playing with it manually, yes!

 

[SlickTony]

Whether I like having my cervix bumped depends on the length of whoever's doing the bumping. I had a lover a long time ago who wasn't that much in the length department (not to engender another interminable discussion about cock size, but it has been my experience 98% of the time that a man's penile dimensions follow very closely his general dimensions) but was vigorous and enthusiastic. A hard thrust from him resulted in a glancing blow to the cervix that just went all through me. OTOH, with my husband, who's taller, the angle and all has to be just right or IT HURTS.

As to different kinds of orgasm, I have achieved them through penetration alone, but this doesn't happen very often and it's really less hassle to have a lot of clitoral stimulation. While the g-spot does not have anything to do with the bladder, it is close enough to the urethra that stimulation to the Spot can result in urethral irritation. I think surely that's what Amicus must've meant when he placed it close to the bladder.

Funny about the reference to the "old days" of the diaphragm. I always called mine The Gasket because I felt that having to lube the thing up and insert it prior to intercourse was about as romantic as pausing in foreplay to rush out to the garage and change out the thermostat gasket in your car. Any significant weight gain can alter the fit of the diaphragm, so that in later years, it always made me feel like I had to urinate when I didn't, really. As to what Amicus was bumping into when there wasn't a gasket in place, I would hazard to guess the pubic bone. That's how a diaphragm stays in place; the front edge catches behind it.

As to how a clitoral orgasm feels, the clit is analogous to the penis, so you'd think the sensations would be analogous also. Of course I suppose men will beg to differ with me. Since Tiresias is not around to ask, I guess we'll never know.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

i'm not sure at all that the cervix is 'nerve rich.' arent' minor scrapings and biosamples taken w/o anesthetic? but what do i know.

When you have one, you let me know how sensitive yours is, will you?

Oh, by the way, I can't imagine getting kicked in the testicles hurts as much as y'all seem to make it out to...

Yes, this is what they state:

SUPPORT AND INNERVATION (of the cervix)
The main support structures of the cervix are the cardinal and uterosacral ligaments. These attach to the lateral and posterior aspects of the cervix above the vagina and extend laterally and posteriorly to the walls of the bony pelvis. The uterosacral ligaments are the conduits of the main nerve supplying to the cervix, derived from the hypogastric plexus. Sensory, sympathetic, and parasympathetic fibers are present in the cervix. Instrumentation of the endocervical canal (dilatation and / or curettage) may result in a vasovagal reaction with reflex bradycardia in some patients. The endocervix also has a plentiful supply of sensory nerve endings, while the ectocervix is relatively lacking in these. This allows procedures such as small cervical biopsies and cryotherapy to be well tolerated in most patients without the use of anesthesia.


However, in most women, "well-tolerated" means painful but I can live with it--it's not like it's labor pain or anything... It's certainly not PAINLESS. We just tolerate pain better than you guys, I think.


There's more information about the research they're doing about cervical orgasm... inconclusive so far...