Age of consent

[mitrish]

I have a question about the age of consent policy on literotica (Characters have to be 18). Is there a legality issue behind it? I see it as a disclaimer for comix and such as if the comix were using actual people. I don't understand why that one is such and issue when rape and torture are fantasized about on the same site especially since the average age of consent in other first world countries is 16. The main story I have mostly happened through out the course of high school and it is awkward and unrealistic to make all of the characters 18. I have also have seen stories on literotica that have less than 18 year old players. Is there some loophole I am not picking up on? I mostly need to know about the legal aspect because I am considering trying to post or publish outside literotica and would need to make sure I am not doing something illegal.

Thanks

 

[Weird Harold]

The Underage Restriction here at Lit is primarily an editorial choice by the site owners, but it is fueled and maintained by the constant threat of legal restrictions that keep being passed and then struck down by the courts.

It is currently NOT illegal to write about underage characters having sex but that is not for lack of trying on the part of prudish politicians.

I don't forsee any real success at making written depictions of underage characters having sex being outlawed successfully -- classic works like Romeo and Juliet and Lolita would be banned as well, and they have already fought and won legal challenges.

I suggest that it would be prudent to ask yourself just how necessary underage sex is to the story you wish to write and get published; Even first-time, sexual experimantation stories don't really need the level of explicit detail that most contain.

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

As usual, everything Weird Harold said is correct.

The only underage "loopholes" I'm aware of here at Lit are:

1. High school seniors are considered "of age" but only if no precise age is mentioned.

2. Underage sex can be referred to, but never described.

If in doubt, send Laurel a PM (not an e-mail).

Rumple Foreskin

 

[amicus]

Just last evening, I watched a television program on "Indie Sex", dealing with independent film producers and the history of censorship in film all the way back to the 1920's to the present time.

It is an informative and educational exploration of human sexuality and its portrayal in visual art forms and literature itself and well worth the time to watch.

First off, Literotica is a private site and the owners can enforce whatever rules they wish for whatever reason; like it or leave it. So is another large site, All Poetry, the story side is now, 'Storywrite', from which I was personally banned for a year for challenging the rules they enforced.

Censorship, forced adherence to morality imposed by society, is nothing new in history, it has always been with us.

The inherent attraction that writer's feel when drawn to write juvenile, adolescent, first time sexual experiences, is somewhat self evident, I feel, personally, since sex is about the biggest mystery of life and the one we are all interested in and participate in, from very early times in our existence.

Sexual experimentation begins in children, many times at a very early age and again, in my personal opinion, is a very natural and healthy facet of human growth and maturation.

It seems not a week goes by that our sensationalistic media reports the disappearance or abduction of a teenaged girl and dogs the story in every detail until it is resolved.

The history of literature is sprinkled through with 'nymph's', waif's, vagabond, runaway girls of tender age and stories of faeries, toadstools, princesses, 'Cinderella' type girls, rich and poor that have always attracted the writer's attention and the readers appetite.

Many find the process of seduction of a curious under age girl, a titillating experiment in fantasy and one that readers appreciate. First time experiences can be a very erotic read, even if forbidden and perhaps the 'banned' aspect of it adds to the mystery.

Being a guy, I have always found girls, of any age, much more interesting than guys, to both be around and to write about.

You need not educate me on the downside of this, with child exploitation, molestation, child prostitution, all of which has been going on forever and most likely will continue even in the most rigid moral societies.

I am of an opinion apparently not held by many, that neither government or religion has the obligation to set moral guidelines for people. I believe in absolute artistic freedom with the caveat, buyer beware, let the market place determine the value of any work of art, erotic or not.

For the past few months I have been helping a daughter put her life back together after a divorce. We learned many things about each other being in such close proximity for that length of time, one of those was her opinion on my 'romantica' ( I call em) stories; she said, "I don't want to read stories about my dad, 'porking', a bunch of different women, I mean, like, you are my, 'dad' and I don't want to read about it!"

We all have our likes and dislikes in literature and film and we all have areas we find repugnant and repulsive.

But it remains my steadfast conclusion, that for a human to mature psychologically, that full and total freedom of choice as to what one experiences in life, is an absolute necessity.

I hasten to add, as a caveat again, that of course, 'children' must be protected from abuse and exploitation. I would prefer that protection be provided by parental guidance and not government, the schools, or the moral police, but then, that is my 'ideal' world, I suppose and not very practical, especially in these enlightened, 'liberated' times.

just the tip of the iceberg of course and not that it matters...



amicus....

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

AMICUS

I was banned for life from a writer's site for suggesting that virgin's cannot write convincing erotic stories. My attitude wasnt respectful.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

AMICUS

I was banned for life from a writer's site for suggesting that virgin's cannot write convincing erotic stories. My attitude wasnt respectful.

Oh I don't know. I wrote lots of erotic stuff that was pretty damned convincing when I was a virgin. *shrug* Depends much more on the writer than it does on the experience. You don't have to have given birth to write about it - or have climbed a mountain, or killed someone. Whatever is in the imagination exists apriori.

 

[sr71plt]

Depends much more on the writer than it does on the experience. You don't have to have given birth to write about it - or have climbed a mountain, or killed someone. Whatever is in the imagination exists apriori.

Bingo.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I have a question about the age of consent policy on literotica (Characters have to be 18). Is there a legality issue behind it? I see it as a disclaimer for comix and such as if the comix were using actual people. I don't understand why that one is such and issue when rape and torture are fantasized about on the same site especially since the average age of consent in other first world countries is 16. The main story I have mostly happened through out the course of high school and it is awkward and unrealistic to make all of the characters 18. I have also have seen stories on literotica that have less than 18 year old players. Is there some loophole I am not picking up on? I mostly need to know about the legal aspect because I am considering trying to post or publish outside literotica and would need to make sure I am not doing something illegal.

Thanks

Hi, Mitrish, and welcome to Literotica and the AH in particular. It is a nice place to hand out in, and queries such as yours are always welcome and taken seriously.

As the Weird One said, it is not a matter of legal or not; it is a matter of the site owners' preferences, and they hold them in their own self-interest. Nobody under 18 is allowed to have sex or to watch somebody else having sex. You can make references to past activities, as long as there are no details of the actual sexual acts.

Generally speaking, people who are working or going to college or hanging out in bars are considered to be old enough. If I write about a high school student or other young person, I include a mention of how the other people know the young person is at least 18.

 

[glynndah]

A welcome for the little newbie from the good little witch.

 

[gauchecritic]

In answer to the last question:

I mostly need to know about the legal aspect because I am considering trying to post or publish outside literotica and would need to make sure I am not doing something illegal.

It is not illegal to publish stories about under-age sex. (even in the US)

It is distasteful to a very great number of people to publish stories about pre-pubescent sex.

 

[HardNightDay]

The Underage Restriction here at Lit is primarily an editorial choice by the site owners, but it is fueled and maintained by the constant threat of legal restrictions that keep being passed and then struck down by the courts.

It is currently NOT illegal to write about underage characters having sex but that is not for lack of trying on the part of prudish politicians.

I don't forsee any real success at making written depictions of underage characters having sex being outlawed successfully -- classic works like Romeo and Juliet and Lolita would be banned as well, and they have already fought and won legal challenges.

I suggest that it would be prudent to ask yourself just how necessary underage sex is to the story you wish to write and get published; Even first-time, sexual experimantation stories don't really need the level of explicit detail that most contain.

Hi all, I'm new around here and so far greatly enjoy the Lit community.

Of course it matters what country one lives in, but I believe in the US it is now illegal to write stories depicting minors engaged in sexual activity. I believe this is part of the new internet child pornography law recently upheld by the supreme court. As far as I know, there is no standard yet to define sexual activity. Also, as far as I know the law makes no distinction between the age of 7 and the age of 17.

I do think it is bizarre and illogical that one could write rape, torture and snuff fantasies, all of which I abhor, yet to write about "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours" could well land one in jail. At what point do protection laws actually become ridiculous and self-defeating?

 

[My I]

I've been working on a story about Pinnochio. Is it going to be ok if he doesn't have sex after he becomes a real boy?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Hi all, I'm new around here and so far greatly enjoy the Lit community.

Of course it matters what country one lives in, but I believe in the US it is now illegal to write stories depicting minors engaged in sexual activity. I believe this is part of the new internet child pornography law recently upheld by the supreme court. As far as I know, there is no standard yet to define sexual activity. Also, as far as I know the law makes no distinction between the age of 7 and the age of 17.

I do think it is bizarre and illogical that one could write rape, torture and snuff fantasies, all of which I abhor, yet to write about "I'll show you mine, if you show me yours" could well land one in jail. At what point do protection laws actually become ridiculous and self-defeating?

It's not illegal yet, but there are those who want to make it illegal. We have had a lot of threads on this subject before this one. Photos of people under 18 and involved in sex are illegal, although drawings are not. Writen depictions are not either although, as I said, there are those who would like to have any kind of sexual literature outlawed, and that would include this site.

Of course, the racier parts of the Christian bible, and some of the references to incest and adultery and underage sex would be excepted from such a ban.

ETA: Pinocchio woulld be allowed to have sex while he is still made of wood, especially while he is lying, but maybe not after he becomes a real boy. This is something that has not been considered.

 

[HardNightDay]

BL, curious. After reading your post I went back and did a little research....and you are correct...i believe. Thank you.

It appears that "virtual" depictions are indeed allowed, though some other progressive countries are banning them, so we can only anticipate the eventuality of this.


My apologies to readers if this next explanation covers something already posted, but I think it is worth mentioning. Interestingly there does appear to be one possible area of legal problems for writers. This has to do with the pandering statute and may have an affect on some disclaimers that authors use. Basically the law states that anyone who claims, whether in fact it is or not, that something, be it an email, message board, etc., contains child porn, that is in fact a crime. So if a disclaimer were to actually use the words "this is child pornography", even if it wasn't, that is illegal. Whether someone would be prosecuted for such a mistake is up to the prosecuters. Most disclaimers I see say something about "depiction of sexual activity with minors" which is not considered pandering as it does not promote actual pornography. As I assume that most authors here write for the purpose of artistic self-expression, it might be advisable to put in any disclaimer that the purpose of the writing is artistic. This actually could help clarify things both in the US and abroad.

My personal interest in this is that I love coming of age stories, and in my opinion, ones actual physical and emotional maturity has little to do with calendars, certainly not ones that make no distinction between a nearly fully matured adolescent and a babe.

Happy writing all.

 

[Guest]

Ugh... I can't believe no one hit the obvious one. It is illegal in some states, counties and COUNTRIES to depict sex with a minor. Now the age of majority varies in some places but 18 seems to be pretty solid world wide. In some countries because can get in trouble for READING those stories. So the age limit is not so ambiguous.

 

[bwallard]

Warning to Canadians. Surprisingly, we're not as liberal on this issue as our otherwise nutso neighbour to the south.

But I have a copy of Lolita which was purchased in Canada. Plus both the movies. So there's something screwy... but...

The way the law's written, an innocent story about your hardon while sunbathing with your sixteen-year old neice could land you in a cell next door to Paul Bernardo.

I think.

I wrote an explicit story about my first sexual experience - at 12 - and was advised to not try it out.

I hope I'm just being paranoid. But a close reading of the law...

 

[Boxlicker101]

Ugh... I can't believe no one hit the obvious one. It is illegal in some states, counties and COUNTRIES to depict sex with a minor. Now the age of majority varies in some places but 18 seems to be pretty solid world wide. In some countries because can get in trouble for READING those stories. So the age limit is not so ambiguous.

I think 16 is a more common age but, in any event, possession of underage porn can get you sent to a penitentiary in the US too. It is not illegal to possess or write child porn, or to draw pictures. Since there are no actual persons being harmed, these things are illegal. However, it is illegal to produce photos of minors having sex, or to own such photos. Even if the people involved were of age where the photos were taken, if they were under 18, the person who has those photos can get in deep doodoo.

This is one way people sometimes get railroaded to prison. I have gone to porn sites many times, and have seen photos or videotapes of people involved in sexual activities. I also sometimes get Spam from sites trying to sell porn to me. Sometimes the porn involves underage girl, usually referred to as "Lolitas". Even if I delete it immediately, which I do, it still leaves an imprint on my HD. Computer geeks can dig those imprints out. If somebody who wishes me harm were to inspect my computer, they would do that and I would get arrested for possssion of kiddieporn, even though I had never asked for it and hadn't even seen it.

 

[sr71plt]

Seems to me that a lot of folks are dancing on the head of the pin of "legality" on this. I see that was largely irrelevant. Areas of the Internet that play with such things as sex with a minor are targeted by law enforcement and patrons of this are identified and put on file when that's possible. It doesn't have to illegal for me to not want to get rolled up in anything like that. I assume the Web site owners don't want to either. If they permitted treatment of underage sex on this Web site, I--and I'm sure many others of those writing to the site--wouldn't come anywhere close to it. I think the Web site owners can hardly be blamed for not wanting to poke that patricular lion. And it's their Web site, so no underage sex here. If writers of that material are happy taking the risks, they can track down other Web sites willing to live with the risk.

 

[mitrish]

Sigh...

Thanks for warm welcome and all the feedback and advise, all. It helps me understand perplexing cautiousness of sites that allow torture and rape fantasies. I suppose it is easy for law enforcement to think about all those interested underage sex as potential child molesters regardless of context. I think for about half of my sexual experiences me and/or my partner were "underage." Just the nature of high school and the first few years after. There are a couple I want to write about and don't feel like changing the age works. I have a bunch of other half-started stories that are purely fiction and it is easy to make the characters the right age. Guess I will have to work on those and sit on the personal stories. It looks like this will be a gray area for a while.

I can say for certain that the age of consent in Spain and France was 16 as of 2002. And 18 isn't even solid for U.S. states. Most states allow guardian sanction marriage at younger ages and most define statutory rape as combination of the underage participant's age and the age gap with the partner. It's confusing though because states add new laws that seem to conflict with old laws without removing them. I guess that leaves it up to court precedent, which I would have to look up. I would like to affirm that I am not interested in child porn or pederasty and the distastefulness of pre-pubescent or even most of the post pubescent years, but also would like to echo Hard Day's Night's sentiment that maturity has less to do with the age of the person than the person.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SELENA

Then youre writing science-fiction for other virgins.

On another thread I used an example of a combat memoir to make the same case. The author began his memoir in my hometown, but many of his facts were wrong about the town. This made me wonder about the rest of his book.

The book gets good reviews from readers; its written well and logical. But its filled with nonsense.

I was watching TITANIC the other day. One of the props in the movie is a Mercury Dime. The Titanic sank 4 years before Mercury Dimes were first issued.

Virgins always fuck up the details.

 

[sr71plt]

SELENA

Then youre writing science-fiction for other virgins.

On another thread I used an example of a combat memoir to make the same case. The author began his memoir in my hometown, but many of his facts were wrong about the town. This made me wonder about the rest of his book.

The book gets good reviews from readers; its written well and logical. But its filled with nonsense.

I was watching TITANIC the other day. One of the props in the movie is a Mercury Dime. The Titanic sank 4 years before Mercury Dimes were first issued.

Virgins always fuck up the details.

And you were equally off base on this on the other thread.

 

[3113]

Thanks for warm welcome and all the feedback and advise, all. It helps me understand perplexing cautiousness of sites that allow torture and rape fantasies.

You keep mentioning sites that allow "torture and rape" but this site, at least, does not. I promise you if you write up a real rape story that details the sexual delight someone has raping an unwilling victim, this site will not post it. Likewise, your torture better be a form of BDSM, that means that the person being tortured better find it sexually erotic and, on some level, want it to happen. If it's too gruesome, and unwilling, then, once again, this site will not post it.

As for those stories that really walk the edge on these topics, or even sites that do have very clear rape/torture but no underage sex stories, well, alas for you, but gruesome depictions of rape/torture done by adults to adults is legal even on film. We've had conversations ad nauseam about this.

The U.S. is a puritanical country that is scared of sex and gets vicarious thrills through violence instead. There. That's it in a nutshell, and you can moan and bitch about it, and you can do all in your power to change that, but that's how it stands for now.

 

[mitrish]

Huh?

"I promise you if you write up a real rape story that details the sexual delight someone has raping an unwilling victim, this site will not post it."

This site has a non-consent section a great deal of which is rape and bdsm section a great deal of which is torture/ ??? I am not sure I get it.


My first posting was progressing quite enjoyably with friendly, helpful responses but it looks like I somehow hit a nerve on my last post.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I think 3113 is wrong on this one; rape, non-con and torture are published here. I could say that erotic, in this case, is in the eyes of the reader-- and, of course, no one under the age of 18 is tortured in these stories.

But speaking for myself I would probably reject 75% of what's in the non-con section.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

I think 3113 is wrong on this one; rape, non-con and torture are published here. I could say that erotic, in this case, is in the eyes of the reader-- and, of course, no one under the age of 18 is tortured in these stories.

But speaking for myself I would probably reject 75% of what's in the non-con section.

Agreed. Where the subject is "reluctant", things are possible but I simply don't hold with the silly concept that once a woman has been forced against her will that she falls for her attacker. And let's not even go into the ramifications of what would happen if the victim's SO decided to avenge her. Consider the results of being crucified on the south side of a boxcar headed for Albequerque . . .