Advice about how to frame a story

[VermillionVenusian]

So, I have a story idea that I really like, but I’m a little unsure how to frame it.

The scenario is perhaps not that original: a young businesswoman has sex with her boss to get a promotion. Actually, in this case, a MMMF gangbang with the board of directors. But the wrinkle to this that, in my opinion, makes it interesting is that the woman isn’t actually an employee of the company at all but a high-end sex worker that the company’s executive secretary hired to impersonate an actual female employee who is deserving of the promotion (the secretary, it turns out, is really running the company).

My dilemma is when and how to reveal this deception.

Option 1: narrate the story as if the prostitute was the businesswoman and only reveal the twist at the end, as the secretary pays her for her services. I worry that this approach will seem too rape-y (well, more “reluctance” or “blackmail” or however you want to label it). I plan to put this in Group, not Non-con. I also worry about the awkwardness of trying to hide the identity of this woman. What I mean is that, in her own head, she would naturally think of herself by her own name. But the men would think (and address) her by the name of the person she is impersonating. For example:

Amy straightened the hem of her skirt as she sat.
“So, Jana, how was the flight out here?” Lionel asked her.

See what I mean? Confusing to readers and very difficult/awkward to avoid (unless I want her to just use “she” throughout—which would also be awkward…).

Option 2: be up front about the deception. From the start, have the reader know that the woman is a sex worker pretending to be someone else. Much less non-con in its framing, but there is no longer a neat twist at the end. Maybe there could still be a twist, in the reveal that the secretary hiring her is actually making the major decisions of the company behind their backs?

Option 3: something in between. Maybe reveal that the woman is impersonating someone, but don’t reveal the details of why she is doing this until the end. This might be intriguing to readers to figure out why she is pretending to have a different name. Or, it might be aggravating/confusing for them to not understand this until the end.

So, what are your thoughts? I’m leaning toward option 2 or 3 but I could write with any of the approaches. I want to know which sounds the most fun to read. Or, can you think of other options?

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

Option 2 does give the reader the beans straight away, or you could salt it into the story in option 3.

With the third option I feel it’s more subtle and potentially more rewarding for the reader. I think with a ‘sting’ like this, the big pull will be satisfactorily exposing it in the story, the “Gee whizz” moment. That’s where the skill comes in. Making the pay off work.

You could have the reader know at the same time, but I think giving enough crumbs the reader will figure it out, then have the story reveal that later on, so that the reader feels they’ve got one over on these corrupt old men.

That’s how I’d tackle that story myself.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't quite understand this scenario, or the story arc. Why does the executive secretary, who runs the company in reality, do this? How would the high end sex worker be deserving of the promotion? I don't get the premise.

Also, whose story is this? The boss's? The secretary's? Or the sex worker's?

1. Option 1 would work if the story were told from the point of view of the bad boss. He would find out the deception at the end and get his comeuppance. But your readers would have to bear with a story told by a villain. That can work, but it's tricky. And making it truly erotic could be tricky.

2. The problem with making the secretary the POV character is that she won't experience the sex scenes, and this is an erotic story.

3. You could tell the story from the sex worker's point of view. Perhaps, to make it interesting, she comes into the job as a sex worker but she actually does a good job and deserves to be hired, and in the end when the boss is exposed, the board hands his job to the secretary and the sex worker becomes her key assistant. That could be the twist at the end -- not the original deception but that the secretary, who takes over, has come to appreciate the sex worker and wants to keep her on.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

I don't quite understand this scenario, or the story arc. Why does the executive secretary, who runs the company in reality, do this? How would the high end sex worker be deserving of the promotion? I don't get the premise.

Also, whose story is this? The boss's? The secretary's? Or the sex worker's?

1. Option 1 would work if the story were told from the point of view of the bad boss. He would find out the deception at the end and get his comeuppance. But your readers would have to bear with a story told by a villain. That can work, but it's tricky. And making it truly erotic could be tricky.

2. The problem with making the secretary the POV character is that she won't experience the sex scenes, and this is an erotic story.

3. You could tell the story from the sex worker's point of view. Perhaps, to make it interesting, she comes into the job as a sex worker but she actually does a good job and deserves to be hired, and in the end when the boss is exposed, the board hands his job to the secretary and the sex worker becomes her key assistant. That could be the twist at the end -- not the original deception but that the secretary, who takes over, has come to appreciate the sex worker and wants to keep her on.

For myself those details are simple to address.

Many companies are run by far more competent leaders down the totem pole.

Maybe the Prostitution/Hooker is the twin sister of the secretary – I’d make her the executive PA to the company boss, make her very sharp and clever.

The sister who’s a hooker, she’s stunning but not as classy as her sister, but she owes the sister a favour (maybe she got her straight after she’s got hooked on say drugs or whatever).

She suggests to her sister she could do some hookering to help her sister out and get everything sorted.

Just a few ideas.

 

[Lori_the_Hoosier]

So, I have a story idea that I really like, but I’m a little unsure how to frame it.

The scenario is perhaps not that original: a young businesswoman has sex with her boss to get a promotion. Actually, in this case, a MMMF gangbang with the board of directors. But the wrinkle to this that, in my opinion, makes it interesting is that the woman isn’t actually an employee of the company at all but a high-end sex worker that the company’s executive secretary hired to impersonate an actual female employee who is deserving of the promotion (the secretary, it turns out, is really running the company).

My dilemma is when and how to reveal this deception.

Option 1: narrate the story as if the prostitute was the businesswoman and only reveal the twist at the end, as the secretary pays her for her services. I worry that this approach will seem too rape-y (well, more “reluctance” or “blackmail” or however you want to label it). I plan to put this in Group, not Non-con. I also worry about the awkwardness of trying to hide the identity of this woman. What I mean is that, in her own head, she would naturally think of herself by her own name. But the men would think (and address) her by the name of the person she is impersonating. For example:

Amy straightened the hem of her skirt as she sat.
“So, Jana, how was the flight out here?” Lionel asked her.

See what I mean? Confusing to readers and very difficult/awkward to avoid (unless I want her to just use “she” throughout—which would also be awkward…).

Option 2: be up front about the deception. From the start, have the reader know that the woman is a sex worker pretending to be someone else. Much less non-con in its framing, but there is no longer a neat twist at the end. Maybe there could still be a twist, in the reveal that the secretary hiring her is actually making the major decisions of the company behind their backs?

Option 3: something in between. Maybe reveal that the woman is impersonating someone, but don’t reveal the details of why she is doing this until the end. This might be intriguing to readers to figure out why she is pretending to have a different name. Or, it might be aggravating/confusing for them to not understand this until the end.

So, what are your thoughts? I’m leaning toward option 2 or 3 but I could write with any of the approaches. I want to know which sounds the most fun to read. Or, can you think of other options?

I would have a preamble, where the secretary and the sex-worker discuss the deal, the deception, and what it entails, who's who, letting her know up-front what is expected, what's likely to happen, who the other people involved are etc; problem is, though, if the genuine employee is going to be in a senior enough position that she needs to bang the board to get it, how is she going to fare in an employment situation where she's likely too, or would possibly run across the company seniors at some point in the future? Companies rarely promote sight-unseen, so surely the real employee's boss knows who she really is, what she looks like etc. Also, If the other seniors encounter her from time to time, surely they're not going to recognize the person in the postion as the same one they romped with. At that point are they not bound to ask 'Who's this? And just who did we promote?

How does the genuine employee get past that? Perhaps the 'identical twin sister who's a sex worker (or is just up for the experience?) scenario would work, because they need to have a plan in place that doesn't get the genuine employee cold-busted

 

[VermillionVenusian]

I don't quite understand this scenario, or the story arc. Why does the executive secretary, who runs the company in reality, do this? How would the high end sex worker be deserving of the promotion? I don't get the premise.

I’m sorry that I wasn’t clear. The executive secretary sets this up so that deserving (in her eyes) female employees get promotions without having to spread their legs (the prostitute is the stand-in for the employee—she was hired because she has a passing physical resemblance to the actual employee). The secretary runs the company, but still needs their approval/signatures on some things. It would also let them think they are making decisions, here and there.

Also, whose story is this? The boss's? The secretary's? Or the sex worker's?

Good question. Primary the sex worker’s, as she learns more about this weird scenario. But the narration will be 3rd person omniscient.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Option 3 is my strong preference. Option 1 saves all the surprise for the end at the expense of drama throughout the story. Option 2 sacrifices a lot of the drama altogether. Option 3 seems like the Goldilocks option.

I don't quite understand this scenario, or the story arc.

I trust Vermillion will correct me if I"m wrong, but think of the show, Undercover Boss. Like that, except with sex. Vermillion described "the secretary" as the company's executive secretary in a way that sounded singular. Did you mean this as the Secretary as an officer of the company, Vermillion?

I don't think she specified a POV, but the example she gave suggested that third-person omniscient narration with an emphasis on the sex worker's perspective. There's no reason the story couldn't switch to the executive secretary's at the end, either I don't see how to make it the boss-jerk's POV because he doesn't know anything about what's going on.

Edited to correct name. Ooops again!

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Oops... overlapping replies.

 

[VermillionVenusian]

problem is, though, if the genuine employee is going to be in a senior enough position that she needs to bang the board to get it, how is she going to fare in an employment situation where she's likely too, or would possibly run across the company seniors at some point in the future? Companies rarely promote sight-unseen, so surely the real employee's boss knows who she really is, what she looks like etc. Also, If the other seniors encounter her from time to time, surely they're not going to recognize the person in the postion as the same one they romped with. At that point are they not bound to ask 'Who's this? And just who did we promote?

How does the genuine employee get past that?

These are VERY hands-off board members. They are there to play in their boys club (in between yacht trips and the like). They wouldn’t remember her very well at all. Some bad eyesight and mild senility would be involved too. No “twin sister” act needed, I don’t think. The sex worker looks a lot like the female employee (hair color, style, build, etc.) and I think that’s enough.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think there's a story in here somewhere, but I'm still confused about the premise. And I think you have to figure out WHOSE story it is, whatever the actual point of view you use.

I can't figure out why the executive secretary would do this. Let's say she's a super competent woman who is fed up with sexism in the office and she wants to see a female employee A promoted. She's going to hire a sex worker to impersonate her and have sex with the bosses so A can get the job? She's committing a fraud, and she's undermining the belief that a woman should get ahead through her talent, not sexual skills. I just don't get this. It also doesn't make sense that the sex worker would look so much like the worker (unless they are twin sisters -- which could be interesting) that it could be pulled off.

I suppose if they ARE twin sisters, and you tell the story primarily from the twin sisters' point of view, you could pull it off. You would need a subplot B, which would concern the relationship between the sisters. Perhaps the employee sister is a goody two shoes who through this ruse gets a chance to cut loose (perhaps in the final sex scene she steps in for her sister and SHE's the one who has the group sex), and the sex worker sister gets a chance by impersonating her sister to prove she can do something other than sex work.

Come to think of it, you could bypass the secretary as the author of this scheme. Instead, the employee sister recruits her twin sex worker sister to please the bosses so she can get the job. This way you leave out the nonessential characters and focus on the two characters who matter most. In the end, the two sisters expose the boss for sexism and incompetence, and employee sister takes his place. The sisters high five in the end and sex worker sister goes back to sex work.

 

[SimonDoom]

OK I've thought about it some more and here's my idea:

Employee Sarah (give her a name) has been working at the company for many years and is great at what she does and wants a promotion but realizes that to get it she probably has to sleep with her rotten sex maniac boss, Dave. And she can't stand the idea.

One day she has dinner with her identical twin sister, Sindy, a sex worker who has always felt that Sarah was the preferred child but still cares about her, and Sindy suggests that SHE could sleep with the boss and help Sarah get the job. Sarah scoffs at the idea but comes around to it and agrees.

Sindy then concocts a series of situations in which she flirts and ratchets up sexual activity with the boss. Turns out the boss, though a jerk, is well endowed and great in bed. Sindy persuades Sarah to have sex with Dave near the end of the story. Sarah feels naughty but enjoys it, and Sindy assures her no one will know it was her.

Meanwhile Sindy proves herself on the job in the office in some ways.

So both sisters satisfy a need.

Dave reveals that despite the great sex he's not going to hire Sarah. He wants to hire a less qualified man.

Sindy, without Sarah's knowledge, sets up Dave and lets the board know that Dave was hiring her to have sex in the office. She has pictures to prove it. The Board fires Dave and hires Sarah to replace Dave.

Everybody's happy. Sarah has her job and has had hot sex. Sindy has had hot sex and done a good deed for her sister.

The story could be told from alternating points of view in third person.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

OK I've thought about it some more and here's my idea:

Employee Sarah (give her a name) has been working at the company for many years and is great at what she does and wants a promotion but realizes that to get it she probably has to sleep with her rotten sex maniac boss, Dave. And she can't stand the idea.

One day she has dinner with her identical twin sister, Sindy, a sex worker who has always felt that Sarah was the preferred child but still cares about her, and Sindy suggests that SHE could sleep with the boss and help Sarah get the job. Sarah scoffs at the idea but comes around to it and agrees.

Sindy then concocts a series of situations in which she flirts and ratchets up sexual activity with the boss. Turns out the boss, though a jerk, is well endowed and great in bed. Sindy persuades Sarah to have sex with Dave near the end of the story. Sarah feels naughty but enjoys it, and Sindy assures her no one will know it was her.

Meanwhile Sindy proves herself on the job in the office in some ways.

So both sisters satisfy a need.

Dave reveals that despite the great sex he's not going to hire Sarah. He wants to hire a less qualified man.

Sindy, without Sarah's knowledge, sets up Dave and lets the board know that Dave was hiring her to have sex in the office. She has pictures to prove it. The Board fires Dave and hires Sarah to replace Dave.

Everybody's happy. Sarah has her job and has had hot sex. Sindy has had hot sex and done a good deed for her sister.

The story could be told from alternating points of view in third person.

Sounds like a fine story, but not the one Vermilion was trying to tell.

 

[SimonDoom]

Sounds like a fine story, but not the one Vermilion was trying to tell.

Agreed, but my sense is that Vermillion is still trying to figure out what story to tell, and this is one avenue it could go that would involve many of the same elements. In Vermillion's setup, there are four main characters, but there's only a need for three. The fourth is extraneous. My version is similar but combines the executive secretary/employee roles.

 

[VermillionVenusian]

I think there's a story in here somewhere, but I'm still confused about the premise. And I think you have to figure out WHOSE story it is, whatever the actual point of view you use.

I think, on a sort of “big picture” level, the story is the secretary’s, even though she plays a very small role in the action. She sets everything up. It’s her idea. She is taking control of the situation in a unique way. But, yeah, 3rd person POV.

I can't figure out why the executive secretary would do this. Let's say she's a super competent woman who is fed up with sexism in the office and she wants to see a female employee A promoted. She's going to hire a sex worker to impersonate her and have sex with the bosses so A can get the job? She's committing a fraud, and she's undermining the belief that a woman should get ahead through her talent, not sexual skills. I just don't get this.

I see where you’re coming from. I see the secretary as a somewhat older woman who has been putting up with workplace sexism and harassment for decades. Her solution is unconventional, but it allows her to use deception against the buffoon bosses to achieve her goals. As much as I said she “runs the company”, I should have made it clear that the lecherous old men run the company, but she uses this tactic (and others) to steer them. Yes, she’s “undermining the belief that a woman should get ahead through her talent”, but only in the minds of these old men who believed that anyway and whose minds would not change anyway. I foresee part of the last paragraph of the story to be an explanation from the secretary to the sex worker (who had just asked her pretty much what you had just asked) that “in another 5 years, they’ll all be dead or retired, and they’ll be replaced by non-bigoted women and men who I have been grooming for their jobs for the past decade.”

But now I wonder if the premise is entirely too sexist from its foundation, and is just too fundamentally flawed to ever work...

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

So, I have a story idea that I really like, but I’m a little unsure how to frame it.

...

So, what are your thoughts? I’m leaning toward option 2 or 3 but I could write with any of the approaches. I want to know which sounds the most fun to read. Or, can you think of other options?

I think your premise is fine. It's not fleshed out completely because you weren't asking for help with your premise. You asked for help with framing and gave three options. We all appreciate help with things beyond what we originally asked, but I think that the weight you give criticisms beyond the scope of your question should be commensurate with the limited information on which the criticisms are based. I wouldn't say that if you had laid out the setup in detail. That's not what we have here. We have, "Here's my story, which way would you tell it?"

I got the impression from your responses that you have a very clear idea about what happens in this story, and you're trying to figure out how to make/show it happen. It's your story. If you like the suggestions and they make your story better, that's great. I don't think you need to make changes to your plot to make it work, though. If you have concerns about the plot itself, I suggest having it read in its entirety by beta readers.

For what it's worth, my understanding of your story was this:

• A highly placed executive secretary actually runs the company. You haven't mentioned why, and it's not relevant to the framing. I can think of lots of possible explanations for this situation, and I assume you have, too.
  
• The executive secretary is aware of the things the boy's club senior managers have been doing. She decides to set them up.
  
• The opportunity she seizes for the setup is a job to be filled that she knows a particular female employee is best qualified for. (I'll call her Jill for the sake of convenience.) Depending on your vision, Jill may not really be part of the story so much as she is part of the plot device, unless, of course, you intend to bring her into the planning of the setup.
  
• The executive secretary suspects that the execs will try to make Jill "earn" the promotion on her back, and so she hires a sex worker. Jill is too far down the totem pole for the execs to realize that the sex worker, who resembles Jill, is not in fact Jill. (If they asked actual interview questions, they might find out, but the point is that they're not doing real interviews.)
  
• The sex worker goes through the "interviewing process," a boardroom orgy ensues, and bam, the boy's club is caught dead-to-rights.
  
• The executive secretary has the evidence she needs to terminate or inflict whatever punishment she deems fit and the asshole bosses.

Is that more or less accurate?

 

[VermillionVenusian]

Agreed, but my sense is that Vermillion is still trying to figure out what story to tell, and this is one avenue it could go that would involve many of the same elements. In Vermillion's setup, there are four main characters, but there's only a need for three. The fourth is extraneous. My version is similar but combines the executive secretary/employee roles.

EoN is right, your idea sounds interesting, but just too far removed from what I wanted in the first place. I really just wanted advice on how to position the “twist” in the story. Keep the idea for yourself if you like it—I think it’s so dissimilar, nobody (certainly not me) would see it as plagiarism or idea stealing.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

But now I wonder if the premise is entirely too sexist from its foundation, and is just too fundamentally flawed to ever work...

I liked your concept. Other people will like your concept. Don't let it get hijacked.

 

[NotWise]

So, what are your thoughts? I’m leaning toward option 2 or 3 but I could write with any of the approaches. I want to know which sounds the most fun to read. Or, can you think of other options?

My main thought is that the story itself, regardless of how it's told, is too fantastic.

I'll start with the premise that the board of directors is making decisions about employee promotions. Normally that would be done by an executive, not by the board at all. But the executive doesn't even appear in your story.

Next, there's the idea that the secretary is running the company. Running a company takes a lot of work in addition to what a secretary would normally do, and a secretary wouldn't be paid anywhere near what the job calls for.

Third, I can't swallow the premise that the secretary could hire a sex worker to impersonate an employee and get away with it. You're asking the decision makers to be a) completely unfamiliar with the employee, and b) irresponsible to the point that no-one even asks her a job-related question.

You're piling a number of tropes and stereotypes on top of each other, and for me it doesn't hold together very well. If the sex comes early, it's good, and it's plentiful, then maybe the readers won't care.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think, on a sort of “big picture” level, the story is the secretary’s, even though she plays a very small role in the action. She sets everything up. It’s her idea. She is taking control of the situation in a unique way. But, yeah, 3rd person POV.



I see where you’re coming from. I see the secretary as a somewhat older woman who has been putting up with workplace sexism and harassment for decades. Her solution is unconventional, but it allows her to use deception against the buffoon bosses to achieve her goals. As much as I said she “runs the company”, I should have made it clear that the lecherous old men run the company, but she uses this tactic (and others) to steer them. Yes, she’s “undermining the belief that a woman should get ahead through her talent”, but only in the minds of these old men who believed that anyway and whose minds would not change anyway. I foresee part of the last paragraph of the story to be an explanation from the secretary to the sex worker (who had just asked her pretty much what you had just asked) that “in another 5 years, they’ll all be dead or retired, and they’ll be replaced by non-bigoted women and men who I have been grooming for their jobs for the past decade.”

But now I wonder if the premise is entirely too sexist from its foundation, and is just too fundamentally flawed to ever work...

I don't think so. I think you've got an idea, but it needs focus.

The problem with the executive secretary is she's not involved in the sex. She's not an erotic character. So you are planning to write an erotic story but the central mover of things is not erotic. She is, presumably, not going to be a direct witness to sex. So what good is she as a character?

So my proposal is to merge her with the employee that she wants to promote. Make them one person, and then introduce the identical twin sister. Having an identical twin sister is the only way to make this concept work. And it's very Shakespearean.

 

[ElectricBlue]

A story by committee? Careful, you'll give someone apoplexy .

 

[SamScribble]

There’s a reader for every story here at Lit. But, personally, I just find the whole proposition beyond plausible. If the EA really was the brains behind the place, she would have no problems in getting the deserving woman promoted. And if the Board members were so easily misled, they wouldn’t be the Board. Corporate Governance is serious business in this day and age. Maybe you could turn the whole thing into farce, set in another time – or even in another world. Just not Planet Earth in the early 21st century.

Oh, and you might want to get a copy of How Fiction Works by James Wood.

Good luck.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

You guys are tearing down a story based on a three-sentence summary of the plot that you don't seem to have understood. That's demoralizing, unfounded, and quite beside the point of the question asked. Nobody is going to want to ask for ideas if this is the kind of response they get.

I'm sure it's well-intentioned, but can you imagine if you gave the barest-bones summary of one of your plots, asked a framing question, and then had your plot torn apart by people who don't have the information necessary to inform an opinion? Not helpful. Not constructive. When somebody asks how to position their surprise reveal, the answer is not that their story is all wrong. The answer is where you think the surprise reveal should be.

 

[Enchantment_of_Nyx]

Oh, and you might want to get a copy of How Fiction Works by James Wood.

Good luck.

Really, Sam? A smiley face at the end doesn't make it any better.

 

[SamScribble]

Really, Sam? A smiley face at the end doesn't make it any better.

I'm just a smiley kind of chap, EoN - except when I'm watching news on TV. And I can thoroughly recommend How Fiction Works.

- Oops! Did it again.

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

You guys are tearing down a story based on a three-sentence summary of the plot that you don't seem to have understood. That's demoralizing, unfounded, and quite beside the point of the question asked. Nobody is going to want to ask for ideas if this is the kind of response they get.

I'm sure it's well-intentioned, but can you imagine if you gave the barest-bones summary of one of your plots, asked a framing question, and then had your plot torn apart by people who don't have the information necessary to inform an opinion? Not helpful. Not constructive. When somebody asks how to position their surprise reveal, the answer is not that their story is all wrong. The answer is where you think the surprise reveal should be.

I hope I am not included in that stinging comment. I was trying to offer some suggestions – that the author is free to use, or ignore or alter at their whim, although if any of my ideas were (my God actually used, I’d be as happy as a bird.

I like the story and find it has a lot of potential and would love to read it.