Advice about category requested...

[BiscuitHammer]

I'm currently positing a multi-chapter story that is, in essence, a romance. There's no two ways about it, the principal characters are madly in love, more so with each chapter. So I put the first three chapters in Erotic Couplings. Makes sense.

However, there must be about thirty chapters of this thing and over that period, the plot peregrinates through romance, fetish indulgence, lesbian sex, cheating, group sex and incest, just to name a few other possible categories.

Since my story covers all these themes, A LOT, but is, in essence, a romance, did I make the correct call in putting it in Erotic Couplings or should I have placed it elsewhere? And if I should have, what the heck do I do about it now?

I have lots of stories going up, but this one's sort of my baby, because it's loosely based on real circumstances and I want to post it.

Au secours?

 

[RejectReality]

On a categorized site, there's no good way to go about it.

Odds are that some of the things like lesbian sex aren't going to fit within EC, and the fetish is probably too strong to fit in Romance, which could be an umbrella theme.

When you're ranging so far afield with kink, you only have two real choices. Sacrifice readership by going with Novels and Novellas where the smaller number of readers are used to having a lot of different kinks thrown at them, or categorize every chapter according to the content.

 

[TamLin01]

I personally find it baffling and annoying when I see a chapter three, chapter five, chapter eight, and chapter twelve scattered all up and down a category page with neither hide nor hair of chapter one. Granted, it's a simple enough matter to go to the author's page; but aesthetically it's irritating.

Anyway, people put too much thought into this. If readers check out chapter one and like it enough to keep reading, they'll probably go along with the story as it progresses. If they're auditing your category selection on chapter four instead, then either you've got big problems or the reader does. Categories are necessarily broad and vague anyway, and Romance is among the most vague.

 

[RejectReality]

The categories may be broad and vague, but the readerships have created their own definitions that have nothing to do with the descriptions provided by Lit, and are much narrower. If you try to put a spanking chapter and a lesbian chapter into a previously straight romance within that category, you're going to suffer greatly, no matter how much it contributes to the couple's loving relationship.

The same would apply if you started the story that way, though. That's not what Romance readers expect, and they will punish you for trying it.

No, I don't think people put too much thought into categorization. The most successful authors here probably spend the most time doing so, with good reason. If you want to be read, you'd better pay attention to the reader trends within the categories -- not Lit's description -- and categorize your story accordingly.

I personally find it baffling and annoying when I see a chapter three, chapter five, chapter eight, and chapter twelve scattered all up and down a category page with neither hide nor hair of chapter one. Granted, it's a simple enough matter to go to the author's page; but aesthetically it's irritating.

Anyway, people put too much thought into this. If readers check out chapter one and like it enough to keep reading, they'll probably go along with the story as it progresses. If they're auditing your category selection on chapter four instead, then either you've got big problems or the reader does. Categories are necessarily broad and vague anyway, and Romance is among the most vague.

 

[TamLin01]

Readers are fickle. Story is the one thing you can rely on. Write the story you want and it will find whatever audience it's suited for. A few people along the way will get their feathers ruffled, but that's true no matter what story you write or what category you put it into. Rather than bend over backwards trying to please an infinite number of hypothetical people, put all that energy into the work.

 

[RejectReality]

Readers on Lit are also tribal.

There's just as much problem with failing to find the audience who will appreciate your work as there is with putting something in a place where people won't appreciate it.

I found that out in spades when Laurel recategorized one of my stories submitted to Erotic Couplings into Mature. I expected it to be a death knell for the story. Then it ended up with 8 times the votes and views similar stories in EC had managed. To this day, those age-difference stories in Mature rise at least twice as fast as those that remain in EC.

Even when someone knows they like your stuff, they won't necessarily leave their preferred categories. It doesn't matter how good the story is if you're not putting it in front of the people who will read it.

That's also the problem with stories spanning multiple categories. Only the most hooked readers will follow it once it leaves their wheelhouse.

 

[SikFuk]

.... To this day, those age-difference stories in Mature rise at least twice as fast as those that remain in EC....

Would a fifty-something loser dude chasing young women around work for Mature? I was thinking the audience might be put off by his immaturity, although in the second and third chapters he does hook up with women in their late thirties - and their barely of-age daughters. (He's a very sick man, and he gets punished for it in the end)

 

[LadyVer]

I personally find it baffling and annoying when I see a chapter three, chapter five, chapter eight, and chapter twelve scattered all up and down a category page with neither hide nor hair of chapter one. Granted, it's a simple enough matter to go to the author's page; but aesthetically it's irritating.

Anyway, people put too much thought into this. If readers check out chapter one and like it enough to keep reading, they'll probably go along with the story as it progresses. If they're auditing your category selection on chapter four instead, then either you've got big problems or the reader does. Categories are necessarily broad and vague anyway, and Romance is among the most vague.

You obviously don't understand the Romance genre, or its readers. Sure, any author can write a story and call it Romance. But don't be surprised when readers use the word "moron" in story comments.

 

[TamLin01]

Well, this writer feels he's written a Romance and if that's the kind of feedback he gets he'll just have to bounce back. But if that's the category he feels the story belongs in I think he should stick with it. I mean, how far should you really go to impress someone who thinks "moron" is sound critical feedback?

 

[sr71plt]

You obviously don't understand the Romance genre, or its readers. Sure, any author can write a story and call it Romance. But don't be surprised when readers use the word "moron" in story comments.

And you won't accept that there are gradations of Romance--that the Barbara Cartland era as been burst open--and that neither you, nor the anal retentive BC-era readers, own Romance or can dictate a narrow definition of it. Bittersweet unhappy endings are now in the Romance category too. Yes, those writers so cowed by oversensitivity to what any amount of readers and lacking confidence in themselves are going to think about ratings and comments before they think of creativity and innovation, but that just makes them as small brained as the BC folks.

 

[LadyVer]

Well, this writer feels he's written a Romance and if that's the kind of feedback he gets he'll just have to bounce back. But if that's the category he feels the story belongs in I think he should stick with it. I mean, how far should you really go to impress someone who thinks "moron" is sound critical feedback?

This is Lit. "Moron" is tame.

And you won't accept that there are gradations of Romance--that the Barbara Cartland era as been burst open--and that neither you, nor the anal retentive BC-era readers, own Romance or can dictate a narrow definition of it. Bittersweet unhappy endings are now in the Romance category too. Yes, those writers so cowed by oversensitivity to what any amount of readers and lacking confidence in themselves are going to think about ratings and comments before they think of creativity and innovation, but that just makes them as small brained as the BC folks.

I accept that there are gradations of Romance. What you don't accept is that for the most part men have no inkling about the genre, have never read a romance, never intend to read a romance, yet think they are experts on the genre. Writers (not all) think they can write anything and stick it into any category/genre, regardless of conventions and despite what the readers want. Over-sensitivity and anal retentiveness have nothing to do with it. It's like an author who writes what he/she thinks should go in the Mystery genre, yet there's no mystery, no dead body, or no sleuthing.

 

[RejectReality]

I can't personally speak to that one. I've had an older woman acting as the aggressor before, but I've always had the younger woman taking that role when I've reversed the pairing.

It certainly won't be amidst the highest scoring stories, and I doubt it will be a huge reader draw. Stories with a romantic flavor or full-blown romances tend to dominate. That's not to say there isn't a readership there for down-n-dirty sex. I've had many of those do quite well.

There's a readership for stories of an older man getting younger girls, for certain. I think an ending where he "gets what's coming to him" is probably going to piss off that readership, though.

I'd have to say Mature is the right place for it, but you need to be prepared for it not to be a spectacular performer, and the possibility people could turn hostile with that ending.

Of course, there will be some people who will be sucked in and cheer that ending as well. I just think the former will outnumber the latter.

Would a fifty-something loser dude chasing young women around work for Mature? I was thinking the audience might be put off by his immaturity, although in the second and third chapters he does hook up with women in their late thirties - and their barely of-age daughters. (He's a very sick man, and he gets punished for it in the end)

 

[RejectReality]

Bittersweet endings don't seem to perform very well in the Romance category. So long as the tone of the story fits the bill until things go sadly wrong, I don't usually see people saying it doesn't belong there, though.

They may be disappointed, and may even give it a crappy rating, but I don't see the comments saying it doesn't belong there like I do with the one-night-stand or date-night kinky sex stories that sometimes end up there.

Just because something isn't going to be a top performer in a category doesn't mean it doesn't belong there.

Stories that end lacking the "sweet" part of "bittersweet" probably don't belong there, though. Doesn't matter how syrupy-sweet the courtship is if it all comes to a bad ( not sad, but bad ) end.

 

[Everyday_Man]

I accept that there are gradations of Romance. What you don't accept is that for the most part men have no inkling about the genre, have never read a romance, never intend to read a romance, yet think they are experts on the genre.

Plenty of romance in the fantasy books I read, even though the romance isn't the focal point, it's there and recognized ... plenty of romantic movies written by men or adapted from books written by men.

In fact, the top 10 romantic movies as voted by the audience were all written by men or with men ... I didn't bother to look at the other 90.


I'm beginning to think LadyVer doesn't like men.

Maybe they don't corner the market on the romantic novels in present time, but men know it, can write it and can see it, fuck, we do it in real life (we're even the first to suggest lube for anal, I wrap a red ribbon around all the tubes I give on the 1 month anniversary date) ... you have a very narrow minded outlook LadyVer.

 

[LadyVer]

Plenty of romance in the fantasy books I read, even though the romance isn't the focal point, it's there and recognized ... plenty of romantic movies written by men or adapted from books written by men.

In fact, the top 10 romantic movies as voted by the audience were all written by men or with men ... I didn't bother to look at the other 90.


I'm beginning to think LadyVer doesn't like men.

Maybe they don't corner the market on the romantic novels in present time, but men know it, can write it and can see it, fuck, we do it in real life (we're even the first to suggest lube for anal, I wrap a red ribbon around all the tubes I give on the 1 month anniversary date) ... you have a very narrow minded outlook LadyVer.

You're comparing the fantasy genre to the romance genre, which are two distinct categories. That isn't to say that each of the categories couldn't have a bit of the other, but that is another issue

This issue is not about movies. It's about stories and their categories and conventions.

This is also not about men cornering the market on Romance, although if they followed the conventions, they would get more readers, and their earnings would increase.

"Maybe they don't corner the market on the romantic novels in present time, but men know it, can write it and can see it, fuck, we do it in real life (we're even the first to suggest lube for anal, I wrap a red ribbon around all the tubes I give on the 1 month anniversary date) ... you have a very narrow minded outlook LadyVer."

So male writers know all about romance because they "know" it, they can write it, they can see it, and they can do it in real life because they were even the first to suggest lube for anal, all with a red ribbon around the tubes, even on the one-month anniversary date?

Basically, if a writer can't take the time to study the conventions of the category he/she is writing, wouldn't read it if they were paid to, tells a category reader who has been reading romance for 45 years that it's all about her not liking men and her being narrow-minded, this is supposed to show his intelligence about writing and genres? And I'm the one that's narrow-minded?

 

[sr71plt]

Bittersweet endings don't seem to perform very well in the Romance category.

Screw Lit. readers in the Romance category, then. Of course, I guess Lit. would be where you did go to find authors prostituting themselves for a brass ring, though.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Or... write what you like and understand, and over time the readers who like it will find you and the others will avoid you. The categories here are broken and the ratings are influenced by petty grievances.

Just write.

 

[RejectReality]

Writing what you like has nothing to do with placing it for maximum readership and reader satisfaction once written.

 

[sr71plt]

Writing what you like has nothing to do with placing it for maximum readership and reader satisfaction once written.

Thank God. One doesn't have to be a prostitute.

 

[SikFuk]

Writing what you like has nothing to do with placing it for maximum readership and reader satisfaction once written.

I Keep wondering about this concept of writing to achieve maximum readership on a free site. Do LIT readers follow authors when they move their work to ebooks?

I can appreciate the goal of reader satisfaction, but I don't think that's the same thing as maximum readership. As a famous songwriter once said, "I'd rather write a song that 50 people love and 50 people hate than write a song that 100 people like." Following his advice, you'd lose half your readership.

 

[RejectReality]

That's tailoring a story to what the readers want.

I'm talking about finding the category where you're going to get the most appreciative readers for what you've already written.

Or, in some cases, an entirely different venue. I've got about 64k words worth of stories that aren't posted to Lit because I decided the readership they were likely to get wasn't worth the effort of putting them up here.

I can appreciate the goal of reader satisfaction, but I don't think that's the same thing as maximum readership. As a famous songwriter once said, "I'd rather write a song that 50 people love and 50 people hate than write a song that 100 people like." Following his advice, you'd lose half your readership.

 

[Laurel]

I'm currently positing a multi-chapter story that is, in essence, a romance. There's no two ways about it, the principal characters are madly in love, more so with each chapter. So I put the first three chapters in Erotic Couplings. Makes sense.

However, there must be about thirty chapters of this thing and over that period, the plot peregrinates through romance, fetish indulgence, lesbian sex, cheating, group sex and incest, just to name a few other possible categories.

Since my story covers all these themes, A LOT, but is, in essence, a romance, did I make the correct call in putting it in Erotic Couplings or should I have placed it elsewhere? And if I should have, what the heck do I do about it now?

I have lots of stories going up, but this one's sort of my baby, because it's loosely based on real circumstances and I want to post it.

Au secours?

If the work is one long plot arc stretching over many chapters in which a variety of themes are explored, I would suggest categorizing it as Novels & Novellas and adding tags which properly reflect the content of each individual chapter.

If the work is episodic - that is, a collection of standalone stories with common characters (i.e. "Kelly Goes to the Beach", "Kelly Tries Handcuffs", "Kelly's Halloween" etc.) - and each chapter is a story containing enough amounts of a category theme to satisfy fans of that category (and is satisfying/understandable without reading the other chapters), then you may consider placing each chapter in a separate appropriate category. However, as Tamlin mentioned, this approach can be confusing to readers looking for the full work. And it doesn't always gain your story new readers - as voyeur fans may read your single voyeur chapter, but be put off by the fact that the rest of the chapters are not to their taste.

And hypothetically - if the work were one long arch of a plot stretching over many chapters on a very specific theme (werewolves, fantasy adventure, romance, etc.) but containing tiny traces of other non-controversial themes (exhibitionism, anal - anything other than noncon or incest), I would suggest placing it in a category most in line with the main theme/subject rather than Novels/Novellas. For example, a werewolf romance should go in Nonhuman. A long multi-chaptered story involving D&D/middle earth/quest themes should be categorized as Sci-fi/Fantasy (and be sure to tag all chapters "fantasy adventure").

Please do not place individual no-sex chapters of a larger erotic work into Non-erotic. Non-erotic is for stories which as a whole contain no explicit sex. Instead, place it in the category of the general story. If you're concerned that readers will be disappointed by the lack of explicit sex in that particular chapter, you may want to let them know via a note at the beginning ("No sex in this chapter! Please enjoy!" or something to that effect). Many authors do this, and readers are fine with this.

Tags are extremely important. Make sure you fill all 10 tag slots with relevant story tags. Here's a quick read on Lit story tags:
https://www.literotica.com/s/story-tags
There are also a few other essays on proper tagging which can be found under the tag (surprise surprise) "story tags"
https://tags.literotica.com//story tags

If you have any specific questions, please feel free to PM me. You can also ask us to help with categorization in the NOTES field of a submission.