Acceptance and Understanding

[SweetGigi]

I am interested in how those of you who live your lifestyle openly have dealt with the acceptance, or lack there of, of your choices by those in your life- be them loved ones or just friends. I'll post my example below as I ask all of you how you would deal with this issue.

My best friend in the world knows about my lifestyle and, over all, tends to be very non-judgmental of me in my choice. However, when talking about the up and coming ATL litogether while walking in the park with her brother this weekend, she silenced me when he started asking questions. It stung when I realized she didn't want her brother to know this about me for what ever reason.

My question is how do I address this issue with her in a way that helps her understand how she hurt me all the while still being a good friend to her?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'm not sure what you should do. For us it is not something which comes up with people as we do not go out of our way to be overtly D/s etc., in front of others, nor does it really come up as a topic for discussion as we see it as our choice and private. Some friends and family know, but don't usually bring it up for discussion either, even those who are openly accepting of it. It just is not something which pops up in idle chit chat for us. In terms of our attending the Litogether in 2003, we just told people who were not aware of our lifestyle we were going to meet people we had been talking to and made friends with online. No-one asked anything more, especially as we ourselves had met that way.

In the situation you described I would be of a mind to think it is your friends right to judge what she would like shared with her brother and not. It may well be it is more about her interaction with him than yours, and that is her right to choose. Just like all things D/s, if you are going to expose others to it or involve them, it is only right to gain their consent first. By talking about it with her brother, unless you have a separate friendship with him without her involvement, I would class it as her right to make the decision of how much you tell him if anything. I gather you feel it is a slight against your choice of relationship, but I see it more as a choice of what she wants her brother to know.

I know my sisters do not know about our dynamics, and I would be really angry with anyone who took it upon themselves to tell them (even if it was in a similar scenario of them telling them about it as their own choice or lifestyle) no matter how enlightening they thought it might be simply because I know what their reaction would be, and that enlightenment would not be one of them. Your friend might have a similar issue with her brother whereby she knows what he is likely to accept and does not want to deal with any negativeness from him about her relationship with you, and her relationship with him...it is sometimes no more than choosing your battles and whether you wish harmany in your life or a battle. Families are not something you can discard, and so sometimes you have to choose how much they know for the sake of future communications and interactions. She may prefer to maintain her present relationship with him without any problems arising because of your choices no matter how bad it might seem, and it need only affect and reflect on your friendship if you choose to make it do so. If she accepts and understands your choice, shouldn't that be enough without feeling her brother also has to be brought into it?

Catalina

 

[SubKekiLee]

Well Gigi... IMHO.. Id just be frank and upfront and ask her why she didnt want me to say anything about what I am most comfortable with, If I am comfortable speaking about my lifestyle then so be it.. I mean I dont speak about my lifestyle in general public but most people I know very well know I am submissive.. So I wish you luck....

 

[FuckMeEyes]

My question is how do I address this issue with her in a way that helps her understand how she hurt me all the while still being a good friend to her?

If I were in your shoes, I would approach it with one step at a time. I would ask why she would not want me to discuss it around her brother. After I know why she silenced me, then I would know how to better phrase how it made me feel.

The great thing about good friends is that they will go the extra mile to understand where I am coming from. Even though I may not choose the best words to describe my thought, they will understand my intent, nonetheless. They will do this for me, because they know I do the same for them.

I am going to guess that your friend did not intend to hurt your feelings and would probably want to know that she did.

 

[intothewoods]

Catalina raised some good points. We don't really know what her motivation is. Maybe she thought she was protecting you from an awkward conversation.

You might want to ask her something like, so, were you thinking that topic was a little too weird for conversations with your brother?

As far as my life goes, my close friends know, but that's about it. It really doesn't come up all that much anymore. When I first discovered this about myself, and was on here all the time? It was always on my mind. Now it really varies.

 

[intothewoods]

Just wanted to raise another point in terms of choices about how private to be about D/s. It's one thing to make a decision about what to discuss with new people who enter your life, or very casual friends even. But I had several friends with whom I have always been very open. It's a little odd to be very open with a friend, and then post-choosing a D/s lifestyle (whatever that means for you), clam up all of a sudden.

With these friends, I have decided to carry on as usual. I don't lie and I don't have big cover stories. If they ask what I did that weekend, I'll say I went to a party (if I went to a party, that is). If they want to know more, they'll ask. If they don't, they won't. Obviously, I don't say, well, on Saturday night, Mister Man tied me up, and then blah blah blah. I have a select couple of girlfriends with whom I really get into details with, but they share the same level of detail and that's the kind of close relationship we have.

 

[SweetGigi]

I'm not sure what you should do. For us it is not something which comes up with people as we do not go out of our way to be overtly D/s etc., in front of others, nor does it really come up as a topic for discussion as we see it as our choice and private. Some friends and family know, but don't usually bring it up for discussion either, even those who are openly accepting of it. It just is not something which pops up in idle chit chat for us. In terms of our attending the Litogether in 2003, we just told people who were not aware of our lifestyle we were going to meet people we had been talking to and made friends with online. No-one asked anything more, especially as we ourselves had met that way.

In the situation you described I would be of a mind to think it is your friends right to judge what she would like shared with her brother and not. It may well be it is more about her interaction with him than yours, and that is her right to choose. Just like all things D/s, if you are going to expose others to it or involve them, it is only right to gain their consent first. By talking about it with her brother, unless you have a separate friendship with him without her involvement, I would class it as her right to make the decision of how much you tell him if anything. I gather you feel it is a slight against your choice of relationship, but I see it more as a choice of what she wants her brother to know.

I know my sisters do not know about our dynamics, and I would be really angry with anyone who took it upon themselves to tell them (even if it was in a similar scenario of them telling them about it as their own choice or lifestyle) no matter how enlightening they thought it might be simply because I know what their reaction would be, and that enlightenment would not be one of them. Your friend might have a similar issue with her brother whereby she knows what he is likely to accept and does not want to deal with any negativeness from him about her relationship with you, and her relationship with him...it is sometimes no more than choosing your battles and whether you wish harmany in your life or a battle. Families are not something you can discard, and so sometimes you have to choose how much they know for the sake of future communications and interactions. She may prefer to maintain her present relationship with him without any problems arising because of your choices no matter how bad it might seem, and it need only affect and reflect on your friendship if you choose to make it do so. If she accepts and understands your choice, shouldn't that be enough without feeling her brother also has to be brought into it?

Catalina

I just want to make it clear that my friend is 'nilla and we have a very close, strictly platonic friendship. Just for clarity's sake.

I can understand what you are saying here, really and I thank you for your input. To be frank, it isn't as if I flaunt my choice and preference of lifestyle to the world, but I don't hide it either. When someone, anyone asks me a question, I will answer it to the best of my ability if I feel it is relevant. In this particular situation, we were casually talking about photography (we are both amateur photogs) and my ideas of shooting Saturday night for the gathering. When he happened back upon us while long boarding, he over heard us and asked what the convo was about. When I went to say 'nothing really just talking about photography', she spoke over me and cut me completely off. She anticipated that I would talk about my lifestyle with him and that clearly embarrassed her for what ever reason.

I think the difference with someone revealing your situation/lifestyle and this one is that you are in the lifestyle and she is not. Even if I were to casually address my lifestyle with someone on any level, I think I should be supported in that, not made to feel like I have a disease or something. Revealing something about my own personal life if I choose is my right, I think. It's along the same lines of revealing one's homosexuality in my opinion. My choice is not a reflection of her in anyway just as one of our friend's homosexuality isn't a reflection on her. But in the end, she is more accepting of his choice than mine. That hurts.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thinking it a little bit further, it could be as simple as her not being comfortable discussing anything too sexual with or around her brother. I know it is not a line that my sisters wish to cross in our conversations (lol, I have much more sexual talks with my cousins, both male and female then my own sisters simply based on acceptability on their terms)....there have been light references with one sister to sexual things (very light and then moves onto something else), and the other one would just not like it at all if sex was discussed at all (family or with anyone). Possibly your friend also has such a line she isn't (or he isn't) comfortable or in the habit of crossing. Taking into consideration the gender difference as well, it could possibly be something she doesn't wish included in conversations around him.

Catalina

 

[sexycaz22]

Catalina does raise some good points so I won't add to it. *edited: SG added that her friend assumed that she was going to tell the friend's brother about the lifestyle she is in, even before she could talk about it and cut her off. I think that's wrong, personally, but again, try to talk to your friend and seeing what she feels. Again, like Catalina says, perhaps your friend does not feel comfortable talking about intimate details, even if it's from you, with her brother. I know that I would not feel comfortable talking with either my sister or my brother (who is gay) about my intimate details. They do know that I have been going on dates, but that's it! *laughs*

As for my experiences, I have been extremely lucky with one of my very closest friends, and she is also my part-time flatmate. At a time when I begun my journey into the bdsm lifestyle, my friend were going to move in with me, as part of her college work. Suddenly I realised that I could not hide it away from her, as I wanted as much as freedom I could by going on the internet and just going to this site for example or chatting with other friends from the bdsm lifestyle. I did not want to be secretive with what I was doing, etc.

So, I planned to tell my friend at a right moment at the right place, revealing myself to her, and hoping for the best.

But it didn't happen!! *laughs* Instead, at a party I got really drunk and then when we went to a friend's to stay over, I blurted out that I have something to tell her and then processed to revealing that kinky part of me. I don't remember exactly what she said to me, but she was fine about it! The next day, we talked about it more, whilst I am sober, to explain a bit more about BDSM and my submissive side (at the time) and she asked a few questions. Then she turned to me and said "Now I know why you looked more confident, more happier than ever, and I am really pleased for you"

Now she is reading the book "When someone you love is kinky" - that's the kind of a girl she is!

PS. I don't know yet whether if I am going to tell other friends or even family. But my friends knows that I am open-dating but not the intimate details of that open-dating! *wink* I might tell them that I am in an open relationship with my partners if I am going into one but not that it is a bdsm relationship. As for my family, I don't think they will ever know.....*shurgs* Just have to wait and see how things goes. Still exploring and more exploring and I am loving every minute of it!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Even if I were to casually address my lifestyle with someone on any level, I think I should be supported in that not made to feel like I have a disease or something. Revealing something about my own personal life is my right if I choose, I think. It's along the same lines of revealing one's homosexuality in my opinion. My choice is not a reflection of her in anyway just as one of our friend's homosexuality isn't a reflection on her. But in the end, she is more accepting of his choice than mine. That hurts.

I get what you are saying, but I would also add that for me, if it were a trusted friend, just as I wished them to respect and value my feelings and privacy etc., I would offer the same to them. If I knew something I was doing might cause them embarrassment (or other negative feelings with others), I would try and respect that in the interests of not wanting to create difficulty for them. As I said, it may not be about her personal acceptance of your choice, but more so how she feels others might react to it, you, or her because of it, and where that could lead personally.

While you have had the freedom to get to a place where you feel comfortable with your choice and whether people like it or not, she also has a right to feel comfortable and may not be at a point where she feels she can find the right words to defend you, your choice, or the friendship if under attack or judgement. That can be a very heavy burden to bear for someone else's personal choices. Since it is not her lifestyle choice I would give her a little leeway in feeling that way and after exploring more with her as to the reasons, respect her as the friend you say she has been and not seek to bring discomfort upon her for my choices. While someone can respect another's choices, and even support them, not everyone they come into contact with might share that same acceptance, nor can the accepting friend be held responsible for that...they can only do what they feel best for you, them , or everyone under the circumstances. Does that make sense?

Catalina

 

[Homburg]

Depends. Most of my friends know that I have something going on behind closed doors. Some know quite a bit. One or two have been brought behind those doors and at least shown what was there.

My parents know parts of it because I was outed by a supposed friend. It's a chance you take.

That said, the interesting part is what sets an individual off. Some people have gone widgey over the BDSM. Some have gone widgey over my dalliances with other women. Some didn't care either way. You never can tell.

Overall, I am as open as I feel the need to be with any given individual. Usually, that is probably more open than many people would choose to be. A good portion of that reason is that I don't hide or deny my personality flaws, and, in fact, make very clear that I own them. I'm raw, mouthy, can be nasty, and have been rightfully called all sorts of bad names. Whatever. I'd rather present myself honestly and make sure people know that I can be a bastard than have them be shocked when I inevitably am.

I take a similar attitude with close friends and BDSM/poly. I am NOT good at hiding my emotions past a certain point. Sure I can lock down and suppress reactions, but when it comes to my friends, they know the signs. I can be sitting quietly reading a book or something, and any one of my good friends will ask me what is wrong. Apparently I broadcast like crazy no matter what I'm doing. And if something has me wound up, or happy, or whatever, my friends will ask. I don't lie about such things. So I can either say why I'm happy/sad/angry, or I can blow them off. I don't like to blow my friends off.

 

[Netzach]

I would assume there are reasons she doesn't want her brother to get this version of events and it's probably for your own benefit, but that's just me and my paranoia about it.

And as much as we're *wired* to be like we are, just like GLBT people are, which I believe, it's still a different level of conversation in this culture - we're defined by the deviant stuff we *do* usually, whereas being gay is defined by who you want to take to the prom and buy a house with. It's not the same, and I don't expect people to treat it identically, any more than I want to hear about the great sex the woman I just met had with her husband in missionary position, or that she likes doing it doggie style best. We are inherently dealing in detail, more than other sexual minorities.

 

[Daddy2mylilgirl]

Ever since my little girl's parents found out that we are in a BDSM relationship and have forbidden her from talking to me because of it, I think we are going to keep this part of our relationship "behind closed doors" for the foreseeable future.

 

[SweetGigi]

So I talked to her last night while we were walking and she actually apologized for cutting me off before I even had a chance to say anything about it. She tried to explain she didn't want her brother to be creeped out by something he didn't know anything about and prejudge me. I told her I had no intentions on saying anything about it- that she never even gave me a chance one way or the other- that by not trusting me on that level didn't say much about our friendship. She apologized again and admitted I was right- that she should've known I wouldn't say anything to him. I expressed how it made me feel rejected and dismissed and she understood my feelings. We talked it through like adults and came to a resolution. I feel much better about everything and I hope to see a change in her as well. It is nice to have someone to lean on- she really is the greatest friend. I love her so much.

 

[EmpressFi]

I had something similar happen and honestly havent addressed it as the topic is now moot with the move during the summer.

My .. well our.. best friend knows. We told her before my trip to London since I didnt want her seeing me with my friend and thinking I was cheating on Malin. Honestly, at first she didnt believe us. She interrupted me on the trip to keep me from cheating and then when Malin went to see one of his girlfriends in Texas, she tried to "reassure" me that he wouldnt do anything because he loved me.

She understands now.

She knows my current Master ~ by name ~ she hasnt met him yet. She is my contact person. If something happens to both of us, the family will notify her and she will notify him. She doesnt ask for details, but is glad that he makes me happy.

However, she wanted Malin and I to come visit with she and her new fiance over the summer. She wanted us to go to Wisconsin. She knows where Master lives and so she was gracious enough to say (nawww I'm not still a little bitter)... that I could have 2 days with Master before they showed up and then the rest of the week it be Malin and I with her and her fiance.

Now of course, her explanation is that her fiance cant handle the idea of me being with someone else, especially if Malin were there too. And while that's true, I hated that she was going to dictate how much of my vacation I could spend with him based on what she was comfortable with.

I'm glad you and your friend talked it out.