About the word "vanilla"

[AG31]

Has anyone that you know of used "vanilla" to refer to a gay male or lesbian relationship?

I know that I use it in my mind to refer to two homosexuals (is that still an OK word?) who are just normal in their sexual practices. But I've never seen it used that way. Am I just missing things? Is it an accepted thing I just haven't noticed?

Certainly, in my lifetime, "vanilla" would have been restricted to heterosexual relationships.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Has anyone that you know of used "vanilla" to refer to a gay male or lesbian relationship?

I know that I use it in my mind to refer to two homosexuals (is that still an OK word?) who are just normal in their sexual practices. But I've never seen it used that way. Am I just missing things? Is it an accepted thing I just haven't noticed?

Certainly, in my lifetime, "vanilla" would have been restricted to heterosexual relationships.

I think these days vanilla just means no kinks, or kink lite, regardless of the nature of the relationship. It's only ever going to refer to a couple, coz as soon as you introduce a third party, you're into at least strawberry ice-cream.

 

[MrPixel]

Yeah, same thing here. In my universe, "vanilla" is one-on-one only, hetero- or homosexual, in a bedroom, in private, no toys or bindings, little risk.

 

[litfan10]

In the BDSM community vanilla usually means those not in the BDSM community, similar to wizards and muggles.

 

[Bamagan]

Suggested flavors for Lit categories.

Anal: Chocolate Chip
BDSM: Peanut Butter
Celebrities & Fan Fiction: An upturned Ben & Jerry’s delivery truck
Erotic Couplings: Vanilla
Erotic Horror: Pistachio
Exhibitionist & Voyeur: Peach
Fetish: An upturned Baskin Robbins delivery truck
First Time: Cherry Vanilla
Gay Male: Mint Chocolate Chip
Group Sex: Neapolitan
Incest/Taboo: Rocky Road
Interracial Love: Rainbow Sherbet
Lesbian Sex: Cookies & Cream
Loving Wives: Cake Batter
Mature: Peppermint
Mind Control: Coffee
Non-Erotic: Broccoli
NonConsent/Reluctance: Caramel?
NonHuman: Eggnog
Romance: Butterscotch
Sci-Fi & Fantasy: Strawberry
Toys & Masturbation: Banana Nut Fudge
Transgender & Crossdressers: Strawberry Cheesecake

 

[KeithD]

I haven't encountered "vanilla" as a gay male relationship descriptor. If I did, without being given an explanation, I'd probably take it as normal married couple doing normally married couple activities, which might include nothing more in the sex area beyond cuddling and buzzing--just like a good number of hetero married couples.

 

[MrPixel]

Non-Erotic: Broccoli

 

[Britva415]

Has anyone that you know of used "vanilla" to refer to a gay male or lesbian relationship?

I know that I use it in my mind to refer to two homosexuals (is that still an OK word?) who are just normal in their sexual practices. But I've never seen it used that way. Am I just missing things? Is it an accepted thing I just haven't noticed?

Certainly, in my lifetime, "vanilla" would have been restricted to heterosexual relationships.

Of course, this has nothing at all to do with sexual orientation and I've never had the impression that anyone thinks it does.

 

[Britva415]

Certainly, in my lifetime, "vanilla" would have been restricted to heterosexual relationships.

I don't know what that lifetime is but I wonder if the stated impression is rooted in the old stereotype that gays are already perverse and so of course every one of them must be doing other degrading and kinky things besides just having vanilla gay sex.

Note, I'm not accusing you of perpetrating that stereotype, just pointing out that you may have received it.

 

[TheLobster]

To me "vanilla" means the kind of sex that an average person could expect his or her partner to be into without thinking the other side is "weird" for even asking. It certainly differs from time to time and from culture to culture. I don't think it makes sense to talk what's vanilla for a specific couple, though; that's just confusing it with "kinks we're both into."

In this sense, gay and lesbian relationships aren't vanilla right now in the West, since one cannot expect an average person to be into gay or lesbian sex. Interestingly, they would probably qualify as vanilla somewhere like ancient Rome, though of course not in the same way we think of those relationships nowadays. Indeed, gay sex is doubly "not-vanilla" since it usually involves anal which again isn't something that the average person does or expects (yet?).

 

[StillStunned]

I think I've been misinterpreting "vanilla". Doesn't it mean "expensive, and only occurring in a few places worldwide"?

 

[nice90sguy]

I think I've been misinterpreting "vanilla". Doesn't it mean "expensive, and only occurring in a few places worldwide"?

My wife is constantly reminding me that "vanilla" gets a bad rap becuase of its slang meaning. It's actually a rather exotic spice.
In keeping with my "try anything once" attitude, I tasted her vanilla/cinnamon fruit stew, and quite liked it, but to be honest, vanilla is not my kink.

 

[THBGato]

Has anyone that you know of used "vanilla" to refer to a gay male or lesbian relationship?

Yes. Hi! Me! I had a character identify herself as vanilla in Eve & Lucy though, to be fair, she had only recently discovered she was bisexual, so I suppose one could argue she was still in a heteronormative headspace and thus was using hetero terms. I didn't think that way when I wrote it, but I guess it could be read that way.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I certainly know plenty of people in what they'd describe as vanilla same-sex relationships. Some might still call it vanilla if they also shag other people, but generally non-vanilla means kink, of the BDSM variety.

They would also insist that their relationships were high-quality vanilla, thank you.

 

[AG31]

Of course, this has nothing at all to do with sexual orientation and I've never had the impression that anyone thinks it does.

How old are you?

 

[AG31]

I don't know what that lifetime is but I wonder if the stated impression is rooted in the old stereotype that gays are already perverse and so of course every one of them must be doing other degrading and kinky things besides just having vanilla gay sex.

Yes, of course it's rooted in that stereotype. The normalization of homosexuality is a very recent phenomenon.

 

[Britva415]

How old are you?

On the older end of Gen X

 

[AG31]

On the older end of Gen X

I'm 80.

 

[Britva415]

I sort of had the idea that the question was about contemporary usage, not how people talked about gays and about kink generations ago.

The normalization of homosexuality is a very recent phenomenon.

Was "vanilla" even a widely known expression at all before kink, BDSM and queer sexual orientations all became normalized? That kind of happened around the same time for all of those topics.

 

[Britva415]

To me "vanilla" means the kind of sex that an average person could expect his or her partner to be into without thinking the other side is "weird" for even asking.

Are we talking about "an average person" or are we talking about a gay or lesbian person with their gay or lesbian sexual partner?

Hearing your partner in your straight relationship say "I want gay sex" isn't objectionable to the average straight person because it's weird or kinky, it's objectionable for completely different reasons: Fidelity, and, incompatible sexual orientations.

one cannot expect an average person to be into gay or lesbian sex

I suppose that's technically "not wrong," but does a straight person actually think it's kinky for gay or lesbian people to have plain-vanilla gay or lesbian sex?

I wonder how much of this has to do with age versus how much of it has to do with geography. I live in a place where everybody knows gay people. I mean, usually not the details of their sex lives, kinky or not, but, it really seems like the perceived (by some people) incompatibility between the "gay" concept and the "vanilla" concept has to do with gays not being perceived as normal or average or un-exotic.

That's a perception which lots of people simply aren't exposed to, other than simply knowing that it's out there somewhere.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

Was "vanilla" even a widely known expression at all before kink, BDSM and queer sexual orientations all became normalized? That kind of happened around the same time for all of those topics.

They got normalised at different rates in different places and among different groups. In the mid-80s I learned about bondage and kinky sex from Cosmopolitan magazine - I recall some headline about 'I have a stressful managerial job - all I want at night is for my boyfriend to tie me up!' Jokes about whips and chains were commonplace. I'm fairly certain some articles used the word vanilla and explained it as meaning non-kinky.

At the same time, despite all the rumours about certain pop stars, no popular press ever mentioned homosexuality, it was never suggested as a daring thing one might try on a night out, I never knowingly met a gay person. Until the AIDS crisis really got going and Clause 28 was proposed - the one good thing about all that was it became clear that many gay and lesbian and even, possibly, some bisexual people existed, and they were both scared and furious.

Within a few years there were huge moves for lots of non-straight people to act as boring and mainstream as possible to try to secure rights, but they didn't make the news so much. It must have been 1996 when I'd just been furious at my partner for outing me as bisexual to his sports club, when we got a phone call.

It was a teenage girl, 15 or 16, who'd overheard him and was calling me (a woman she'd met once) because she was bisexual, had never met another, had only ever heard how we were the downfall of society or making it up, and all she wanted was a boring vanilla life with a partner and a house and garden with a white picket fence and that.

I'm not the best at comfort, but early-20s me pointed out there was absolutely no reason she couldn't have a partner of whatever sex, plus her house and white picket fence. She cried for ages because she'd never dreamt it was possible. Or met anyone else queer in her life. I told her to sneak into the nearby university's LesBiGay meetings - we found out where and when they were, for her.

And didn't mention the thriving local kink scene which was mostly, but not completely, getting over homophobia. Sexuality is always more complicated with kink - some people will happily get whipped or hurt by someone of any sex, but only want one sex to do sexy stuff with, which leads to odd boundaries like a guy being sounded by another man, but refusing the second man to rub his cock up and down, because he's 'straight'. But at least the kinksters tend to have thought about said boundaries enough that they can communicate them.

 

[THBGato]

It was a teenage girl, 15 or 16, who'd overheard him and was calling me (a woman she'd met once) because she was bisexual, had never met another, had only ever heard how we were the downfall of society or making it up, and all she wanted was a boring vanilla life with a partner and a house and garden with a white picket fence and that.

I'm not the best at comfort, but early-20s me pointed out there was absolutely no reason she couldn't have a partner of whatever sex, plus her house and white picket fence. She cried for ages because she'd never dreamt it was possible. Or met anyone else queer in her life. I told her to sneak into the nearby university's LesBiGay meetings - we found out where and when they were, for her.

From the bottom of my heart, well done you!

 

[AG31]

I sort of had the idea that the question was about contemporary usage, not how people talked about gays and about kink generations ago.



Was "vanilla" even a widely known expression at all before kink, BDSM and queer sexual orientations all became normalized? That kind of happened around the same time for all of those topics.

Yes, "vanilla" has always been around in my lifetime. And I wasn't aware that kink and BDSM had become normalized.

 

[TheLobster]

Are we talking about "an average person" or are we talking about a gay or lesbian person with their gay or lesbian sexual partner?

You can of course narrow your frame of reference and talk about subgroups within the general population but here, I meant an average person in the broadest application sense.

When looking for a potential sexual partner, is the consideration whether or not the other person is straight something that should be regularly considered if there no clues that this might be the case? (To exclude cases like straight person going to a gay bar etc.) I'd say the answer is obviously no. It is implied that the other person will be. Straight is thus the vanilla preference.

I wonder how much of this has to do with age versus how much of it has to do with geography. I live in a place where everybody knows gay people. I mean, usually not the details of their sex lives, kinky or not, but, it really seems like the perceived (by some people) incompatibility between the "gay" concept and the "vanilla" concept has to do with gays not being perceived as normal or average or un-exotic.

That's a perception which lots of people simply aren't exposed to, other than simply knowing that it's out there somewhere.

I've had RL acquaintances who were gay. For several years I've lived in San Francisco. I know gay people exist. I don't usually wonder what they do under the sheets but if I were to entertain the notion, I'd never describe it as vanilla.

 

[Britva415]

I know gay people exist. I don't usually wonder what they do under the sheets but if I were to entertain the notion, I'd never describe it as vanilla.

Seems like a double standard to me.