About a girl... er... lady... er... whatever

[MaxSebastian]

Hello people! Here's a question I think anyone can answer, whoever you are, wherever you are.

When you're writing about a character, which word(s) do you prefer to use for their gender, and which do prefer to avoid?

By this, I mean do you like writing about a 'girl' or about a 'woman' or a 'lady' or a 'female' in a story (or 'man', 'boy', 'male' etc)?

I was also interested in what people prefer to read in stories. Do you get offended by certain terms?


*

I was thinking about this because I noticed that I usually write about 'girls', even when the character is older. In real life, I always talk about 'women', of course, because that is the politically correct term. But when I'm writing, the word 'woman' seems terribly formal because of this, and I think this is why I write using the word 'girl' - I find it sexier, which is all-important. I don't think I'm demeaning women by calling them 'girls' in stories (am I?), I certainly don't mean to, and I think I'm right in saying that erotic writing has slightly different rules than everyday language usage.

When I'm reading a story and the author keeps using the word 'chick' (unless it's in a particularly ironic context) I can't help but be put off. It just seems so tacky! It makes me laugh and if this isn't the aim of the story, it's usually a turn-off. Sometimes I use 'female', but rarely, and I don't think I can call anyone 'lady' without a smirk slipping in, because I'm not a New York taxi driver.

Male-wise, I find that 'guy' is my usual term, I think. This is because in real life if anyone calls me a 'man', I find it weird. I stop and find myself thinking "I'm a man?" then I decide, yes, I am a man. I'm 23, and still not used to not being a 'boy' any more!

'Man' has so many images attached to it, though (think Marlboro Man and so forth), in the never-ending pursuit of masculinity by the insecure. So I just don't find it appropriate for many of my characters, who aren't usually big smokin' cowboys. I don't have a problem reading it, though, of course, and in some stories the characters are real Russell Crowe-type Commander of the Armies of the North, and it works. But for me, I'm six-two and a former rugby player, but I still chuckle whenever someone calls me a 'man', and I guess that transfers across to how I deal with my characters.

'Guy' is so American, though - which I find perfectly acceptable for American writers, but it leaves me with a dilemma. I'm not American, but increasingly I find myself using American words because they just seem to work better and flow better and seem sexier than the English equivalent. So 'guy' instead of 'bloke'. I find the word 'bloke' completely unsexy and actually has the same effect on me in a story as 'chick' does, even though I'll use 'bloke' in everday conversation and not 'chick'.

*


Maybe if we get some good answers on this thread, I could turn it into a useful "how-to" advice article for literotica. What does everyone think? How about it, blokes an' chicks?



Max.

 

[Sabledrake]

I've run into the same problem. Each term carries its own connotations, so it really depends on the story and the characters.

For me, 'girl' works regardless of age if there is an innocence, youthfulness, or nubility. Woman seems more mature and experienced somehow. I do recall having stumbled across stories and novels that use it wrongly and have been mildly irked by it.

Like you say, too, a lot of it depends on the characters and the setting. When I write Gargoyles fanfiction, I have to use male and female because the race demands it. When I write fantasy, I often use the term "elfmaid" in lieu of "girl," for instance.

Which leads to more problems -- an elf, or a dwarf, or an orc, is generally and generically taken to be male; elfmaid or dwarfwoman or she-orc all have to distinguish from there. Like the thankfully now mostly defunct "male nurse" or "lady doctor" clunker terms.

It's also largely a point-of-view issue. If it's the character thinking 'chick' or 'gal' or even 'bitch,' that's one thing. If it seems to be coming from the author, that's something else ... and IMO more off-putting.

Just my thoughts early in the morning, but I figured I'd throw in my tuppence.

Sabledrake
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=81075

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't have this problem, myself. I never refer to sexually active characters as "girl" or "boy" simply because that equates with juveniles. Most of my writing is from a character perspective and few people actually think the words "woman" or "man" except in formal occasions. Well, I don't. I use emotive words like bitch or asshole. I'll use guy every once in a while. I don't think I've ever used anything but a pronoun in reference to people in a good light.

I speech, I use what the character would use. "That woman over there." "You were staring at that man." "You are such a guy." "The bloke on the telly knocked me up." *chortle*

In everything else... well, I speak more from character than narrator so it's not much of a problem because, once again, I use what the character would use.

Sexiness isn't necessarily sensuous feeling words. People who read pornography are the ultimate voyuers. They want to be inside the character's heads, not just watching them from a distance. Use the character's vernacular, it's more "real" than using words that sound "sexy."

If that character refers to all men as "blokes" then that should be in there, sensuous or not. In the middle of sex itself, that isn't much different. Characters don't think of people as men or women while they're fucking. They think of body parts and sex itself.

And that's my humble opinion on the matter.

 

[wildsweetone]

About a girl...er...lady...er...whatever

Please forgive me if i mess up as this is my first posting.

A lateral suggestion -
Perhaps you could employ the feelings that these words evoke in you to your advantage. If distaste is foremost in writing the word 'bloke', make good use of it. Turn it around and 'invent' yourself a character who fits the mould in your mind of a 'bloke'. Store the character away for a future story.

If writing or thinking stirs an emotion, then no matter what the emotion, shouldn't it be usable?

It's also dependent on who you have chosen as your reading audience. If your story is directed at a 50-60 year old female, how will she react to the protagonist being called a 'chick'? Will it take her back to her own youth? Will she be able to relate to the story on a personal basis?

The third thing to consider is which country you're aiming your story at. For example, I'm a New Zealander, 'bloke' here is common in the spoken language, as is 'mate'. It wouldn't be incorrect to incorporate either of those into a story for other Southern Hemisphere residents/readers. Maybe by making it obvious which country your story is set in, would clear up possible conflicts.

Ever heard the Australian word 'sheila' meaning female? To me that sounds derogatory when referring to a female. Similarly when someone refers to their female spouse as 'the mrs'. Yuck I hate that. But if it fits within the boundaries of the character being portrayed, then sobeit.

To sum up, write whatever feels comfortable and 'right' for you. Lead on, and your readers will follow.

 

[jon.hayworth]

Hi Max,

In some ways we were all here a couple of weeks back with the 2 spellings thread. I am also from the UK. I tend to agree "Guy" does flow - and 18+ males cannot be "boys", but I also agree they are not yet "men".

I personally like the term woman - "girl", (to my preconceptions) sounds young too young. Sometimes even the word "female" sounds appropriate.

However as Wildsweetone pointed out our readership encompasses the globe. - Yet to see a posting from China, but that does not mean there are no readers. So ultimately you can but use the words that you feel most comfortable using.

Maybe one effect of the Web is that English will over time loose its regional and national idiosynchracities (I've never cracked spell checking on these replies). As we use Americanisms and Aussieisms we are a part of that evolutionary process.

jon

 

[karmadog]

terms

I have to agree with KM for the most part. However. Most of the English words (Bum, fanny, chap) have humorous connotations for me. I suspect it's because of a youth spent with Monty Python and Benny Hill. As I never heard those words used except in comedy situations (and rarely hear them used any other way still) they make me expect a punchline.

 

[wildsweetone]

About a girl...lady...whatever

Just as another thought. The english language is ever evolving. It can be amusing and interesting to refer back to a dictionary for the meanings of words we generally take for granted.

I have an ancient pocket Oxford which is falling apart and way out of date, but it comes in handy now and again.

gal = girl

girl = female child; young woman; woman working in office, factory, etc.; female servant; man's sweetheart; girl Friday.

woman = adult human female; the female sex; feminine emotions; female; woman concerned or dealing or skilful with or describable as (countrywoman, needlewoman, Welshwoman); charwoman.

I'm sure there's a story in there somewhere. *wink*

 

[Route66Girl]

Hey Max!

I've been reading stories here at Literotica for a few months now and I have to say I really like yours!

I do write, but I haven't submitted a story here quite yet. But I'm working on it.

Regarding the usage of these particular words, it depends to me on where they're being used. If it's in the third person narrative, I would use the proper terms: "Woman" to describe any female of adult-looking age. "Young Woman" to describe any female that could either be a teen or a young adult, "Girl" for any female that would be visually quite young, etc. The same would work for men. If you are using the third person narrative, it's best to stick to these terms when describing the sex of the person. It's the details you provide that will let the reader really paint the picture. If you describe a fat woman in her 50's swilling down beer and swearing as she chain-smokes, the reader is going to come up with his/her own word for her.

But that's why I don't usually rely on the narrative to describe these people, but on the characters with whom they're interacting. For example, with the same woman I described above, the bartender who's serving her might think, "There's one rough old broad."

And of course, different characters will think differently. A old lonely man sitting next to the fat woman who's drinking might say she's a "lovely lady who looks wise."

A brash teenager might describe her as "that chick's been rode hard and put away wet."

The philosopher in the corner might say, "She looked like the kind of woman who didn't like waking up to her life in the mornings."

Etc.

I personally think it's not a very good idea for a writer to shy away from using any word on the basis of personal dislike. (Oh, and I struggle with it, too! There are some words that really FREAK me out.) It can limit the scope of the characterizations.

 

[Mickie]

Any useage of slang or word choices should reflect the character of the work. If you're going to use the word 'girl' to refer to any woman in the story, then make sure the entire story fits this mold. Stay in character, whether as a narrator (and yes, the narrator even in third person is a character, which is why writers refer to 'writing style' so often) or as a walk-on character.

It really depends on the style of the writer, the theme of the work, and the setting. If I'm going to write a romance between two people who work washing cars, I'm going to use the kinds of terminology that kind of situation requires. I'll figure out if the characters will refer to others as 'girl', 'woman', 'boy', 'man' or in a generic sense for all genders -- 'guys'.

Myself, as the narrator, I tend to write in a more formal style. However, I've read things that used an informal style of narration that works very well.

Examples:
Formal -- A woman stood atop the cliffs, staring out to sea with intimate longing.

Informal -- The girl couldn't have been more than nineteen, standing on top of the rocks. She looked out to sea, watching for something.

One thing I've noticed, though -- informal is usually used in first person pov, while third tends to be more formal, using more adult phrasing. We do try to put less of an intimate style in third person.

Mickie

 

[MaxSebastian]

I guess a lot of it does come down to character and taste. I'm so damn middle-class, and I suppose my characters get that wawy a bit too!

'Broad'! Don't think I'll be using that one any time soon! Almost as sexy as 'Bloke'!

I like the idea that a man's sweetheart is officially a girl - it's a term of endearment in that respect, I think.

 

[Uther_Pendragon]

A character, of course, can use any term which is in
character. I personnally think that "lady" conveys a
certain sort of person and should be used fairly rarely.
:
OTOH, I'm writing elsewhere a story where the main characters
are high-school seniors. The boy refers to adult women as
"ladies."
Another story where the female protagonist is slightly too
young for Literotica, the male protagonist is undressing
her: Off comes the blouse. He smells her powder, "the
scent of girl." A little later he removes her panties,
"The scent of woman." My proofreader questioned the first
phrase. Then she commented on the second one, "oh."
:
My usual heroine wants to be considered a woman, not a girl.
My usual hero is careful to do that.
I suppose I write about men and women generally.
Not boys and girls unless they are young. Guys seldom,
and blokes never.

 

[MechaBlade]

I usually call the bitches "hoes."


Joke.

MechaBlade

 

[MaxSebastian]

But why bring garden implements into things?


You have a weeding fetish?

 

[DRxBlue]

Excellent question!

This is a knotty one. The current craze for "Political Correctness" (mutually exclusive terms i think) does raise the possibility of losing potential readers by using terms that "offend" them.

i'm afraid that my attitude toward such sensitive people is "Screw'em!"

Still, i think that great care should be used both in description and dialogue to define the character you want to be part of your story.

i think it's usually better to let the character's actions describe them rather than make the narrator do all the work.

If you describe a female character as a "statuesque, sophisticated, blond woman", (too many adjectives, i know) then all her actions and dialogue would have to reinforce that image.

If you decribe her simply as a tall blonde, then she might stride across the plush, gold carpet, offer her hand to the dark gentleman in the tuxedo and say, in a deep, velvety voice, "John, how lovely to see you."

Contrarywise, (i LOVE English ) she might skip across the sunlit lawn, her hair blowing like a cape behind her, and say to the greaser in the leather jacket, "Hi Johnnie! Got any gum?"

KillerMuffin makes a great point in saying that readers "want to be inside the character's heads", and you'd be better off letting people know what they think, and see how they act.

If you call a character a lady or a slut or a guy or a rascal, they'll wear that word like a brand for the rest of the story. It can colour the readers interpretation of any action they perform.

Thanks for making me think about this subject. It might help me to improve my work. i'll hafta check out your library too.

P.S. is that your REAL name?
s'cool!