A weighty issue

[ZRT]

As I've said before, my ex husband is a feeder. My mom and i often tried to decide why he is this way.

When we got married, there was a lot of fucked up shit going on in my life. Our marriage did not start off in happy times. I ended up having a nervous breakdown and could not leave the house with out curling into a ball and crying for a hour or two first. Naturally I wasn't working, I was home all day with no kids, and I had always been on the "only must do" side of activity so I began to balloon up. As I did my depression worsened.

My ex didn't like seeing me so depressed, so when I had really bad days, we went out to dinner that night. When something up set me, we went for ice cream. On special occations he brought home Olive Garden complete with chocolate cake. If we had a fight he made up with chocolates. You get the idea. I was almost rewarded with food, and apeased by it.

What my mom and I decided, based on other charateristics he showed, was simply that he is, like many, all about instant gratification. He isn't a long term thinker, he wants a problem solved now. If that problem is I'm upset, ice cream is a quick way to get me to smile. Deep down he just wanted to see me happy, what he couldn't see was how he was trying to make me happy was superfishal, and usually only lasted until I passed the hall mirror.

He wasn't a bad guy, just misguided.

Food is love for some people.

Consider it this way: if you grow up with a mother who makes a point of cooking you a good meal, you learn to associate that act with love and affection.

So by extension, you make a production of feeding other people to show that you care for them.

I'm that way myself- feeding a woman what she likes is something I enjoy greatly, because (to me) it satisfies an impulse to care for her. I think it also satisfies some 'Urg, feed mate' caveman complex in me, too.

Thing is, I don't care if the girl I'm with is carrying a some extra poundage- all that really matters to me is that she's content with the shape she's in. If she wants to lose weight, then I'm supportive of that too.

 

[the captians wench]

Food is love for some people.

Consider it this way: if you grow up with a mother who makes a point of cooking you a good meal, you learn to associate that act with love and affection.

So by extension, you make a production of feeding other people to show that you care for them.

I'm that way myself- feeding a woman what she likes is something I enjoy greatly, because (to me) it satisfies an impulse to care for her. I think it also satisfies some 'Urg, feed mate' caveman complex in me, too.

Thing is, I don't care if the girl I'm with is carrying a some extra poundage- all that really matters to me is that she's content with the shape she's in. If she wants to lose weight, then I'm supportive of that too.

I was the first woman in his life to cook for him. But I do see your point here. I don't see you as a feeder though, because of your last line.

You see, it didn't matter to him that I wanted to loose weight, that I was unhappy being so close to the line where I could get government help because I was too fat to work. All that mattered to him was that ice cream could make me happy for a moment, so that's what he gave me. This is how he supported me, even though it worsened the underlining issue.

I think that's the difference. When I'm upset about my weight and express it to Jounar, or to a former PYL, they tell me to do something about it. They make me get up and talk a walk to "clear my head". My ex would give me ice cream and tell me he loved me no matter what. See the difference?

For him it was all about instant gratification, what solves this issue now, and no worries about the long term. I think a lot of people are like this, but there are other kinds of feeders out there. For some it is a kink, for some it's a self esteem issue (if she's fat she can't leave me). But I think the key between some one who simply uses food to show they care and some one who is a feeder is that if the fed came to you and said "I think I'm unhealthy, I want to loose weight" some one who cares goes "Okay, I'll cook less pasta" and a feeder goes "oh hunny you're being silly. You're beautiful. Here have another double fudge brownie".

 

[JMohegan]

Any one seen the ads for the new reality show "More to Love"?

Is it a step in a good direction displaying average size women and one man in a positive light? Or should we not be showing over weight people as role modles?

The show says that the average size of an american woman is 14/16. I know I fall into this average, but I also know I'm overweight.

Is showing average sized women any healthier to our young girls looking for role modles than showing women who are a size 2 or lower?

No, I haven't seen the ads, so I googled.

If we're talking about publicly recognizable figures, I'd say that Jane Goodall, Janet Napolitano, Jennifer Granholm, Gail Collins, Sandra Day O'Connor, and Christiane Amanpour are good role models. The people who debase themselves on "reality" dating shows are not.

None of that has anything to do with size or attractiveness.

If what you're really asking is, more broadly, whether it's okay to show 14/16 size women and "husky" men happy and in love, in TV shows, advertising, or film, my answer is of course.

 

[ZRT]

But I think the key between some one who simply uses food to show they care and some one who is a feeder is that if the fed came to you and said "I think I'm unhealthy, I want to loose weight" some one who cares goes "Okay, I'll cook less pasta" and a feeder goes "oh hunny you're being silly. You're beautiful. Here have another double fudge brownie".

Point taken. I hadn't ever really considered it in terms of an emotional dysfunction, but that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

 

[the captians wench]

No, I haven't seen the ads, so I googled.

If we're talking about publicly recognizable figures, I'd say that Jane Goodall, Janet Napolitano, Jennifer Granholm, Gail Collins, Sandra Day O'Connor, and Christiane Amanpour are good role models. The people who debase themselves on "reality" dating shows are not.

None of that has anything to do with size or attractiveness.

If what you're really asking is, more broadly, whether it's okay to show 14/16 size women and "husky" men happy and in love, in TV shows, advertising, or film, my answer is of course.

Yes, but, role modles for pre-teen and teen age girls these days are not scholars and women they have to read about. If I ask my 12 year old sister who she looks up to, I'm more likely to have seen her answer on the cover of people than I am to have read some scientific paper written by that person.

Do I like it, no. But the facts are TV personalities and supermodles are who these girls are deriving how they should look and act after.

I don't want my sister to feel like she has to starve herself to be a size 2 to be atractive. But I don't want her to feel like she can let herself balloon up with out any consiquences either.

I am happy to see "real people" on tv in a more positive light, but I'm wondering if we should push that it's great to be a size 22 either.

 

[the captians wench]

Point taken. I hadn't ever really considered it in terms of an emotional dysfunction, but that makes a lot of sense. Thanks.

I just like to point out the feeder as well as the eater. When OSG mentioned the story of Ken, and those things about his family it made me think "hmmm, maybe his girl is a feeder. I wonder why she feeds him" Psycology really interests me, especially emotional disorders.

I do want to point out that there were other signs besides him offering me food any time I was upset that lead me to believe my ex is a feeder. I also want to point out that I don't blame him for making me fat. Yes he helped. Yes he was an inabler. But he didn't shove the ice cream down my throat, he just put the bowl infront of me.

 

[BiBunny]

My ex was that way. He wanted me to get on Depo, which is known for causing weight gain. (And, OMG, did it. I gained 100 pounds in less than a year. Since I got off Depo, I've only yo-yo-ed back and forth 20 pounds or so.) He was constantly dragging me somewhere to go eat, etc.

My mother and I were talking about it one day. He was an insecure, manipulative fuck, and Mother is almost 100% certain that his motivations were something like, "If I get her all fat and ugly, nobody else will want her, and I won't have to worry about anyone taking her away from me."

Since he used to threaten to kill himself when I'd get tired of his bullshit and leave him, I don't doubt it in the least. He has since married a girl even bigger than me, so it makes perfect sense.

 

[JMohegan]

Yes, but, role modles for pre-teen and teen age girls these days are not scholars and women they have to read about. If I ask my 12 year old sister who she looks up to, I'm more likely to have seen her answer on the cover of people than I am to have read some scientific paper written by that person.

Do I like it, no. But the facts are TV personalities and supermodles are who these girls are deriving how they should look and act after.

I don't want my sister to feel like she has to starve herself to be a size 2 to be atractive. But I don't want her to feel like she can let herself balloon up with out any consiquences either.

I am happy to see "real people" on tv in a more positive light, but I'm wondering if we should push that it's great to be a size 22 either.

America's celebrity obsession is something that I can't relate to, and really don't understand.

With regard to publicly recognizable figures, my 19 year old niece thinks Michelle Obama is the greatest female role model in the country today. Can't say I've ever heard her gush about Britney Spears, or any of the other people at that link. Of course, this could be because she knows that my sister would give her an earful, and I'd just burst out laughing.

I don't have a clear sense of what "size 22" means in women's clothing. But if it's unhealthy, then no - I don't think we should "push that it's great."

 

[CutieMouse]

America's celebrity obsession is something that I can't relate to, and really don't understand.

With regard to publicly recognizable figures, my 19 year old niece thinks Michelle Obama is the greatest female role model in the country today. Can't say I've ever heard her gush about Britney Spears, or any of the other people at that link. Of course, this could be because she knows that my sister would give her an earful, and I'd just burst out laughing.

I don't have a clear sense of what "size 22" means in women's clothing. But if it's unhealthy, then no - I don't think we should "push that it's great."

Once upon a time I was a size 22.

I'm 5'8" tall; my weight was 219#
(recommended weight for my height/frame is 125 - 155#)

I would have a very hard time believing anyone could be healthy at that dress size.

 

[LilyBart]

I'm going to tiptoe in here....

I have teen/young adult daughters and I worry about their ideas of healthy/attractive weight. The older daughter is probably more astute, but the young teen daughter is, IMO, at risk. No matter what I or her Dad or anyone else says.

I am so aware of the power of words in this regard since my mother has always commented on my weight. And I have never been overweight by most standards. But my mom soldiers on with her definition of thin and so I find myself defending/protecting my daughters from their grandmother. Grrr

So I can honestly understand why some folks here have taken the weight discussion personally. Its really amazing what a few words, here and there, can do to make you feel defensive. Its a sensitive subject, and usually for reasons we can't really know about or understand. Health issues, stress or emotional issues...they are all valid.

Although feeding a 9 month old McDonalds or Coke doesn't fly with me. And didn't 24 years ago when I first became a parent.

At the end of the day, what I care about is healthy food going in, and reasonable amount of activity on the outside.

~LB
(and my definition of healthy food changes daily... I think I need to move because as long as I live here I will starve. Or get rickets. Or something).

 

[the captians wench]

Once upon a time I was a size 22.

I'm 5'8" tall; my weight was 219#
(recommended weight for my height/frame is 125 - 155#)

I would have a very hard time believing anyone could be healthy at that dress size.

Dress sizes are a weird measurement.

My mom is 5'1, she's down to a 22 now and weighs 230lbs.

I'm 5'3, when I was a 22 I was 320lbs.

My mom drops a dress size every 10lbs, for me it varies. I'm currently about 215 and a size 15/16. I've been a 16 at 165lbs, I've also been a 10 at 165lbs.

I just used 22 as the example because that was a comment in the ad I saw.

I will never forgive my dad for bringing over that digital converter box.

 

[Netzach]

Once upon a time I was a size 22.

I'm 5'8" tall; my weight was 219#
(recommended weight for my height/frame is 125 - 155#)

I would have a very hard time believing anyone could be healthy at that dress size.

Does someone have to be in the blossom of perfect health to be a role model, worth looking at or worth listening to?

Should we relegate large people to total media blackout because they're not modeling health?

Or is diversity of size in representation kind of a good idea? Since you know, reality and all that.

Maybe at some point women can be a role model for something other than what they look like.

I'd say never ever seeing someone who looks like you as a romantic lead, ever - never seeing someone who looks like you as a successful character in a movie, never seeing someone who looks like you as anything but a joke isn't incentive to take care of yourself. It's demoralizing. It's exhausting. It's not working, if the whole point is to get more people to aspire to slimness to the point of going forward.

If I look at a room of women sz 24-2 a size 8 looks more attainable. If everyone is a size 0-2 I can see why people go "oh fuck it" and have a pie.

 

[JMohegan]

Does someone have to be in the blossom of perfect health to be a role model, worth looking at or worth listening to?

Should we relegate large people to total media blackout because they're not modeling health?

Or is diversity of size in representation kind of a good idea? Since you know, reality and all that.

Maybe at some point women can be a role model for something other than what they look like.

No

No

Yes

That was exactly my point.




Wench asked if we should "push that it's great to be size 22." That's very different than asking if it's okay to portray size 22 people, happy and in love, on TV.

 

[MisterSir]

I attribute my weight gain to biting the heads off squirrels in the park.

What, I'm the only one?

Nah. I developed a taste for bats when I was eleven and first saw Ozzy do it, they go great with a little sweet and sour dipping sauce.

 

[WriterDom]

I wouldn't call my neighbor fat. She's pretty average for a 42 year old woman. She has a high school reunion in August. I don't think she wanted to go from the beginning but she felt like she had to be a certain weight to go. So she lost 15 or 20 pounds. About 3 weeks ago she ordered pizza. The next day I saw her outside with a big bowl of ice cream. Now she has gained much of it back. I think she is sabotaging herself because she really doesn't want to go.

Misguided motivation perhaps? It takes effort to keep weight off. The older you get, the worse it gets.

 

[Netzach]

I wouldn't call my neighbor fat. She's pretty average for a 42 year old woman. She has a high school reunion in August. I don't think she wanted to go from the beginning but she felt like she had to be a certain weight to go. So she lost 15 or 20 pounds. About 3 weeks ago she ordered pizza. The next day I saw her outside with a big bowl of ice cream. Now she has gained much of it back. I think she is sabotaging herself because she really doesn't want to go.

Misguided motivation perhaps? It takes effort to keep weight off. The older you get, the worse it gets.

It's not a good enough reason in itself. How you feel has much more longevity as an issue than what a select group of people will think about you in your own mind.

Keeping weight off - well you know how that goes. Losing it is damn nigh impossible, staying consistent that one step harder.

I've see sawed once and I realize that I'm not the equivalent of the "can have a glass of wine at Christmas" AA recovered person. Sugar is a drug. I totally see why that would happen. I have the benefit of a more tangible relationship to "oh man this is going to kill me" with bad food - most people don't have to think that way. It actually makes things easier.

If I'm to be in good fighting shape in 20 years for whatever my body decides to freak out with, I need to say fuck off and good riddance to sugar in all complex forms for good. I'm not quite emotionally ready to have that send off yet, but I think it's coming soon.

 

[Keroin]

Lit can be rough. We've all argued like this in a ton of threads. Doesn't mean we all hate each other. Just have to put on your oven mitts before coming in the kitchen.

My unwillingness to take part in a conversation wherein several of the participants are so emotionally attached to the issue that every statement I make is misinterpreted or called out as a lie has nothing to do with weakness or lack of confidence.

So I apologize for accusing you of lying.

Just for the record, crohns is only one of my health problems. I also have chronic anemia, malnourishment, arthritis, severe scoliosis, severe nasal allergies, asthma, chronic exhaustion, chronic pain, and insomnia.

I have been told that osteoporosis will happen, it's a matter of time. Why? Because I lost in the genetic lottery. Lucky me.

Thank you for your apology.

I'm still not sure what the relation is between me not knowing your complete medical history and my ability to care about your well being. According to this logic I do not care about anyone unless I can list every medical condition they have, which I probably can't even do with my own father.

Regardless, believe what you want to believe about me.

 

[satindesire]

I'm that way myself- feeding a woman what she likes is something I enjoy greatly, because (to me) it satisfies an impulse to care for her. I think it also satisfies some 'Urg, feed mate' caveman complex in me, too.

This is pure horny poetry to my eyes.

Marry me.

 

[Keroin]

The free market issue is tough, it really is. I agree with osg's comments. There's a lot that I'm proud of about this country, but the export of tobacco and junk food products just isn't on that list.

On the other hand, Coke has a right to make coke, and people have a right to buy it. You can't force people to avoid making unhealthy purchases, so what can you do?

One option is to levy taxes, to discourage consumption by increasing the cost. Another option is regulation, such as requiring prominent calorie counts on menus and labels. In addition, zoning laws could limit the number of fast food restaurants in a given area. School districts and other public buildings could forbid junk food in cafeterias and vending machines on their property.

I don't mean to imply that enacting any of these laws & regulations would be easy, or correct the problem entirely. I'm just saying that there are measures that could be taken.

A quick note on education, since you mentioned that issue with regard to the population on your island. As I noted earlier in the thread, education helps, but it's not enough. In the US, relative education levels explain the gap in the trend lines below, but do not explain the trend itself.

I agree that education is not enough but in this part of the world, and I'm guessing several others like it, the local population knows nothing about nutrition. This is not an exaggeration. If you were to talk with 95% of the local population they would have no idea that donuts make you gain weight or that Coke is unhealthy for a toddler to drink.

There is nothing taught in the school system about health and healthy eating, nor does the government involve itself in any way. This is not the only subject islanders have no understanding of. They are also constantly being fleeced financially by outsiders because they have little to no comprehension of finance. They are simple people who live simple lives, and in many ways I applaud that, but it makes them vulnerable to exploitation.

For this reason, I think foreign companies need to have some kinds of restrictions when selling unhealthy products in this kind of environment. What kind of restrictions, I don't know. Paying a fee or tax would be next to useless because it will only end up lining a politician's pocket. I'd say that these companies should be required to provide education in health and nutrition in the school but the chances of being able to implement that are low.

However, I think your ideas for your own country are good ones. The difficulty would be fighting the large number of people who see any kind of regulation as impeding their rights.

 

[satindesire]

Is this on topic? All this health/government stuff made me think about this:

After the ephedra crisis in 04, I don't understand how the FDA peoples can still sleep at night when they allow the production and sale of cigarettes. 14k some-odd people complained about adverse reactions to ephedra (and people were making meth with it) but 5.4 million deaths around the world were caused by cigs in 04 and Marlboro's are still on the shelves.....

*facepalm*

 

[intothewoods]

My unwillingness to take part in a conversation wherein several of the participants are so emotionally attached to the issue that every statement I make is misinterpreted or called out as a lie has nothing to do with weakness or lack of confidence.



Thank you for your apology.

I'm still not sure what the relation is between me not knowing your complete medical history and my ability to care about your well being. According to this logic I do not care about anyone unless I can list every medical condition they have, which I probably can't even do with my own father.

Regardless, believe what you want to believe about me.

The specific exchange between you three aside, many people in this thread have posted in a way that suggests they do not appreciate differences in financial status, caregiver status or demands of a particular job. The reason I post this is because I don't think I fully appreciated how difficult it is to be a working parent and take care of yourself prior to becoming a working parent. And I'm not parenting multiple kids alone and working for minimum wage. That certainly doesn't explain every occurence of obesity in this country, but I think it explains a small part of why people take this subject personally.

 

[graceanne]

Thank you for your apology.

I'm still not sure what the relation is between me not knowing your complete medical history and my ability to care about your well being. According to this logic I do not care about anyone unless I can list every medical condition they have, which I probably can't even do with my own father.

Regardless, believe what you want to believe about me.

I didn't actually care if you know all my history. What I wanted to know is if you were paying attention to what I said at the beginning of the thread, because (to me) when people care about you they listen to you.

 

[Keroin]

The specific exchange between you three aside, many people in this thread have posted in a way that suggests they do not appreciate differences in financial status, caregiver status or demands of a particular job. The reason I post this is because I don't think I fully appreciated how difficult it is to be a working parent and take care of yourself prior to becoming a working parent. And I'm not parenting multiple kids alone and working for minimum wage. That certainly doesn't explain every occurence of obesity in this country, but I think it explains a small part of why people take this subject personally.

Nor do I. Yes, I understand how people can take this issue personally but I also explained that I was speaking generally about a global problem.

On this island, family units and social structure are vastly different from the US. There are no daycare's and no such thing as a babysitter. People live in extended family units and child care is taken on by all members. No one here works the hours or under the kind of stress we westerners do, as the pursuit of money is not culturally important. And yet, this place has a 90% overweight/obesity rate, as do many other small countries just like it. So, there is something bigger going on here, (here, meaning on a world wide scale, not on an individual level), than just health issues and lack of time.

Some people have mentioned food additives, such as hormones, this is a possibility. I'd be curious to hear more theories.

This, the problem on a global scale, is what I intended to discuss. A few people have joined in and offered interesting comments in this regard.

I feel very much for those who struggle with weight, (even if no one wants to believe it), but that's not what I care to talk about in this thread. If others want to talk about it, that's their prerogative but I dislike being personally attacked, (which is ironic because that is exactly the behavior people are complaining about).

What do you think of the global problem? What are your ideas regarding how it might be combated?

 

[Keroin]

I didn't actually care if you know all my history. What I wanted to know is if you were paying attention to what I said at the beginning of the thread, because (to me) when people care about you they listen to you.

Yes, I did. I asked "Can we not control our food consumption?" You replied that not all obesity is related to over eating. This is a good point and valid.

I would argue, however, that where I live, and in many other similar locations around the world, most of the obesity is related to over eating and/or eating of the wrong kinds of food. This is not a condemnation of individuals, either. I believe poor, under educated people are being exploited by big food companies, (among other problems).

I still don't see how your medical history relates to my caring.

 

[graceanne]

Yes, I did. I asked "Can we not control our food consumption?" You replied that not all obesity is related to over eating. This is a good point and valid.

I would argue, however, that where I live, and in many other similar locations around the world, most of the obesity is related to over eating and/or eating of the wrong kinds of food. This is not a condemnation of individuals, either. I believe poor, under educated people are being exploited by big food companies, (among other problems).

I still don't see how your medical history relates to my caring.

You were talking about American's, I thought. Your stats are regarding Americans. I don't know, off hand, what the statistics for obesity for the rest of the world, but with all that statistic gatherings I did yesterday, I recall that the number of obese people, world wide, is about the same as the number of underweight/starving people.

And it wasn't my medical history that was the point. To me, and granted that doesn't mean that's true for other people, but to me when you care about people you listen to what they say and you know what's going on in their lives. I could have, also, (to make my point) asked what's going on in my life right now that's causing me a lot of stress. (It's also been mentioned on this thread.)

That might not be entirely fair, since the majority of people I know are surprised at what I remember about what they tell me. But that's how I feel about caring.