A weighty issue

[JMohegan]

Ah. So no one's actually studying that demographic, more likely the highest income is like, an MD and his lawyer wife.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Netzach]

Yes, exactly.

Oh, well, same goes for them.

In 1976 the MD was busy treating patients. He was making a decent living, and most of his day was spent actually making those last few legendary house calls or with a stethoscope on a kid's back. He put in a solid maybe 10 hour day, and definitely took lunch and went home at a normal hour most of the time. He worked hard, but at work that was fulfilling, in keeping with his training, and hands-on, with liberty to work as his expertise dictated, not insurance providers and a corporate clinic mentality.

Now most of the MD's day is spent fighting with insurers, being reprimanded for putting johnny on something not on the formulary, worrying about being sued, and working a lot longer. He's eating the MD diet because he feels rather shitty that his desire to help people has been reduced to this. He's an employee of some massive network, and therefore it's not unlike selling shoes for Macy's - how many people did you see today, Dave? Oh really, only six? How long did you spend with Johnny? You have to bring those times down, Dave.

How we work is the difference. How much, how long, how hard, how dictated, and for how little.

 

[JMohegan]

Oh, well, same goes for them.

In 1976 the MD was busy treating patients. He was making a decent living, and most of his day was spent actually making those last few legendary house calls or with a stethoscope on a kid's back. He put in a solid maybe 10 hour day, and definitely took lunch and went home at a normal hour most of the time. He worked hard, but at work that was fulfilling, in keeping with his training, and hands-on, with liberty to work as his expertise dictated, not insurance providers and a corporate clinic mentality.

Now most of the MD's day is spent fighting with insurers, being reprimanded for putting johnny on something not on the formulary, worrying about being sued, and working a lot longer. He's eating the MD diet because he feels rather shitty that his desire to help people has been reduced to this. He's an employee of some massive network, and therefore it's not unlike selling shoes for Macy's - how many people did you see today, Dave? Oh really, only six? How long did you spend with Johnny? You have to bring those times down, Dave.

How we work is the difference. How much, how long, how hard, how dictated, and for how little.

Right. As osg and others have noted, it's a lot harder for those on the bottom to obtain healthy food than it is for those at the top. But that's an *additional* problem, on top of the fact that we've got serious problems with our lack of facilities, poor urban/suburban planning, and employee expectations across the board.

Just to put those "lower income" and "higher income" segments in perspective, here are the US income statistics for 2007.

Bottom 20% of households earned less than $20,300/year.

Highest 20% of households earned more than $100,000/year.

Top 5% of households earned more than $177,000/year.

 

[Keroin]

I just finished a quick skim of the pages I missed, (spent yesterday out on the lagoon, snorkeling, swimming and hanging with the kite-boarding crowd...dude).

Thanks to those who have gently nudged the thread back to the OP.

In this part of the world, the problem is lack of education about proper diet and nutrition, low income, and lack of choice of healthy food options. Or, rather, the non-healthy food options are much easier to obtain.

One thing I've noticed in my travels is the prevalence of Coca-cola. In Mexico, my joke always was that no matter how poor the community you could always find a big, gold catholic church and a Coca Cola depot.

These high sugar/calorie, low nutrient foods are the obvious choice for shopkeepers to sell in countries such as this because they have a long shelf life, huge profit margins and they're physically addictive. I'm not sure how to combat this. Money is a powerful force to fight.

I've heard a few comments about lack of time to exercise. Here's my personal philosophy on that - no I am not judging you, just letting you all know what works for me: If I have 30 - 60 minutes to blab on this thread, that means I have 30-60 minutes to exercise. If I have to sacrifice one for the other, exercise must win. I know all about lack of time - the average day on set was 12 hours minimum and often I worked two shows at a time, with maybe a half hour to sleep in between. For me this just meant getting really creative. I used to bring a skipping rope to work and find a place to jump rope for 20 minutes at lunch. I'd bring some wet wipes and rubbing alcohol to clean myself up afterward. AGAIN, this was just me, I do not expect anyone else to behave this way. I'm just making the point that you don't necessarily need a lot of time or money or space to exercise.

 

[WriterDom]

So if we had universal free food you think the bottom twenty would chose grilled chicken salads with vinaigrette dressing or Papa Johns pizza and cheese sticks?

 

[Netzach]

So if we had universal free food you think the bottom twenty would chose grilled chicken salads with vinaigrette dressing or Papa Johns pizza and cheese sticks?

bottom twenty what?

Poorest? Fattest?

Meet The Fockers is the highest grossing comedy of all time, still I think. That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Unlike food, all movies cost the same, so there's no freaking excuse for that.

 

[Keroin]

So if we had universal free food you think the bottom twenty would chose grilled chicken salads with vinaigrette dressing or Papa Johns pizza and cheese sticks?

My guess is the latter. Not because people are weak willed but because these foods are seriously addictive.

If my choice is pizza or salad, my body wants pizza. I'm lucky to have a high degree of self control, so my mind almost always out-votes the brain.

But it's also weird to me that there's an idea out there, in civilized, educated countries, that healthy = salad and other non-tasty, non-satisfying food. I eat tons of yummy stuff that isn't expensive and is healthy and full of nutrients.

 

[Netzach]

I just finished a quick skim of the pages I missed, (spent yesterday out on the lagoon, snorkeling, swimming and hanging with the kite-boarding crowd...dude).

Thanks to those who have gently nudged the thread back to the OP.

In this part of the world, the problem is lack of education about proper diet and nutrition, low income, and lack of choice of healthy food options. Or, rather, the non-healthy food options are much easier to obtain.

One thing I've noticed in my travels is the prevalence of Coca-cola. In Mexico, my joke always was that no matter how poor the community you could always find a big, gold catholic church and a Coca Cola depot.

These high sugar/calorie, low nutrient foods are the obvious choice for shopkeepers to sell in countries such as this because they have a long shelf life, huge profit margins and they're physically addictive. I'm not sure how to combat this. Money is a powerful force to fight.

I've heard a few comments about lack of time to exercise. Here's my personal philosophy on that - no I am not judging you, just letting you all know what works for me: If I have 30 - 60 minutes to blab on this thread, that means I have 30-60 minutes to exercise. If I have to sacrifice one for the other, exercise must win. I know all about lack of time - the average day on set was 12 hours minimum and often I worked two shows at a time, with maybe a half hour to sleep in between. For me this just meant getting really creative. I used to bring a skipping rope to work and find a place to jump rope for 20 minutes at lunch. I'd bring some wet wipes and rubbing alcohol to clean myself up afterward. AGAIN, this was just me, I do not expect anyone else to behave this way. I'm just making the point that you don't necessarily need a lot of time or money or space to exercise.

Am I just pulling this from my ass, or is the difference between coke for Mexican import and US coke (which do taste different) that the Mexican coke comes in a thick recyclable glass bottle and is still made with actual sugar, not corn syrup?

I heard this, dunno if it's on snopes or what.

 

[Netzach]

My guess is the latter. Not because people are weak willed but because these foods are seriously addictive.

If my choice is pizza or salad, my body wants pizza. I'm lucky to have a high degree of self control, so my mind almost always out-votes the brain.

But it's also weird to me that there's an idea out there, in civilized, educated countries, that healthy = salad and other non-tasty, non-satisfying food. I eat tons of yummy stuff that isn't expensive and is healthy and full of nutrients.

To make otherwise uninteresting food palatable requires spices, pots and pans, a functioning kitchen, research and time in excess of what a lot of people have. I make loads of Indian food, which is exciting to eat and very healthy if you avoid the wet curries with loads of cream, and ditch on the rice and chapathis.

I'm also self employed and can work any 14 hours of the day I want LOL.

 

[WriterDom]

We don't have inner city poor here but we have a lot of uneducated working poor who don't read much of anything and they tend to pair up with similar. So if one is huge usually the other one is huge. Eating for pleasure is a hobby for them. Youth makes them attractive enough to fuck each other, then they squeeze out a few babies and what's the motivation for them not to get fat? Every year past 30 gets harder. You can eat the same and start putting on 5 pounds a year.

And they all drink soda like it's water.

If rich Uncle John dies and leaves them a million dollars I don't think their eating habits are going to suddenly get better.

 

[Keroin]

Am I just pulling this from my ass, or is the difference between coke for Mexican import and US coke (which do taste different) that the Mexican coke comes in a thick recyclable glass bottle and is still made with actual sugar, not corn syrup?

I heard this, dunno if it's on snopes or what.

Mexican Coke does taste different, it is far sweeter than the US version. I can't speculate why that may be but it seems likely that there is a higher sugar content. I have had some Coke in this part of the world and it is also different - less fizzy, if that makes sense. I have sometimes wonder if they tweak their formula to accommodate different cultures.

I used to be a Coke addict. Quitting was brutal. Glad I did it though, that stuff is toxic.

To make otherwise uninteresting food palatable requires spices, pots and pans, a functioning kitchen, research and time in excess of what a lot of people have. I make loads of Indian food, which is exciting to eat and very healthy if you avoid the wet curries with loads of cream, and ditch on the rice and chapathis.

I'm also self employed and can work any 14 hours of the day I want LOL.

Maybe my tastes are simpler? LOL. I can chuck some Cajun spice in bunch of lentils, fry it up and I'm a happy camper.

I also use stevia or agave nectar as sweeteners, so I can still have sweet tasting food without the needless calories. Of course, these things are not options for most of the world.

 

[graceanne]

Ok, here's some stuff for people who claim they're worried about people's health when they're overweight.

The average waist size of a woman in the 1950's was approximately 28 inches and the average waist size of a woman now, is about 34 inches (source).

In 1950 the average life expectancy of a man was 65/66 and for a woman 71 (source). The life expectancy for Americans is (for 2009) 78 (source).

So, despite that fact that more American's are obese than ever, and this is bad for our health, yadda yadda yadda we are still living longer.

I can list on one hand the people who are worried about my health. Other overweight people? Want to weigh in on this? How many people actually give a damn about your health?

The truth is that people don't actually care about the fat person's health, they just want them to look good. This is right up there with people refusing to vote for presidents who have face hair or are ugly.

I don't see any threads about the 50 million Americans who are underweight - and not anorexic (source). An underweight person is at risk for infertility, osteoporosis, type 1 diabetes, anemia, and immune system deficiencies (source). Not to mention what malnourishment does to your teeth, skin, and hair.

 

[JMohegan]

Ok, here's some stuff for people who claim they're worried about people's health when they're overweight.

The average waist size of a woman in the 1950's was approximately 28 inches and the average waist size of a woman now, is about 34 inches (source).

In 1950 the average life expectancy of a man was 65/66 and for a woman 71 (source). The life expectancy for Americans is (for 2009) 78 (source).

So, despite that fact that more American's are obese than ever, and this is bad for our health, yadda yadda yadda we are still living longer.

I can list on one hand the people who are worried about my health. Other overweight people? Want to weigh in on this? How many people actually give a damn about your health?

The truth is that people don't actually care about the fat person's health, they just want them to look good. This is right up there with people refusing to vote for presidents who have face hair or are ugly.

I don't see any threads about the 50 million Americans who are underweight - and not anorexic (source). An underweight person is at risk for infertility, osteoporosis, type 1 diabetes, anemia, and immune system deficiencies (source). Not to mention what malnourishment does to your teeth, skin, and hair.

It's not just a longevity issue, it's a quality of life issue, and a question of how much it costs to keep people alive. We've made extraordinary advances in medical technology in the past 60 years, which is wonderful, but application of those advances costs money.

We are in the process of a critical national debate on health care, with reform legislation pending. People with a stake in every aspect of the health care system are analyzing costs, trends, risk factors, and so on. For most people engaged in serious discussion on this issue, it isn't a question of wanting everybody to prance around looking like supermodels; it is a critical debate with major economic and health repercussions for our country overall.

I've got a question for those who keep asserting that the WHO and CDC don't know what the hell they're talking about when they make BMI proclamations, or those who keep pointing out that drug addicts, underweight persons, etc. have health problems too.

Do you have access to studies or data, from credible sources, asserting that American weight increases are *not* cause for economic or national health concern, or, that there is any other epidemic or trend in this country that is a greater cause for concern in terms of economics and citizens' health?

 

[Keroin]

Ok, here's some stuff for people who claim they're worried about people's health when they're overweight.

The average waist size of a woman in the 1950's was approximately 28 inches and the average waist size of a woman now, is about 34 inches (source).

In 1950 the average life expectancy of a man was 65/66 and for a woman 71 (source). The life expectancy for Americans is (for 2009) 78 (source).

So, despite that fact that more American's are obese than ever, and this is bad for our health, yadda yadda yadda we are still living longer.

I can list on one hand the people who are worried about my health. Other overweight people? Want to weigh in on this? How many people actually give a damn about your health?

The truth is that people don't actually care about the fat person's health, they just want them to look good. This is right up there with people refusing to vote for presidents who have face hair or are ugly.

I don't see any threads about the 50 million Americans who are underweight - and not anorexic (source). An underweight person is at risk for infertility, osteoporosis, type 1 diabetes, anemia, and immune system deficiencies (source). Not to mention what malnourishment does to your teeth, skin, and hair.

Gracie, sorry, but this just isn't true for me.

First point - living longer does not equal living healthier. We are living longer for a number of reasons, mostly to do with medicine. Cancers which were once fatal can now be treated, for example. And there are many other examples.

I don't give a flying fuck how anyone looks. I don't know how to spell that out more plainly. My dad and my sister are both very overweight, so was my mom when she was alive. I worry very much about their health - my dad has diabetes and joint problems that practically immobilize him, because of his weight - I could care less about their looks.

As I said to NH, no one is stopping you or anyone from starting a thread about anorexia or any other issue you deem important.

This may be hard to believe, but I actually give a damn about people, regardless of their appearance. Do you know how I feel when I look around at an island full of people who were once warriors, sea-farers, proud, healthy and strong and see a group of people sucking on the teat of Coca Cola and bellying up to the trough of the white man's crappy processed food? Do you have any idea what that means to me? I consider myself a citizen of the world. I care about the inhabitants of this planet. Naive, perhaps.

Added: I want my dad to lose weight because I want to have him around as long as possible, in the best shape possible. Same goes for my sister.

 

[Keroin]

It's not just a longevity issue, it's a quality of life issue, and a question of how much it costs to keep people alive. We've made extraordinary advances in medical technology in the past 60 years, which is wonderful, but application of those advances costs money.

We are in the process of a critical national debate on health care, with reform legislation pending. People with a stake in every aspect of the health care system are analyzing costs, trends, risk factors, and so on. For most people engaged in serious discussion on this issue, it isn't a question of wanting everybody to prance around looking like supermodels; it is a critical debate with major economic and health repercussions for our country overall.

I've got a question for those who keep asserting that the WHO and CDC don't know what the hell they're talking about when they make BMI proclamations, or those who keep pointing out that drug addicts, underweight persons, etc. have health problems too.

Do you have access to studies or data, from credible sources, asserting that American weight increases are *not* cause for economic or national health concern, or, that there is any other epidemic or trend in this country that is a greater cause for concern in terms of economics and citizens' health?

Well put. Much more rational than my response.

 

[graceanne]

It's not just a longevity issue, it's a quality of life issue, and a question of how much it costs to keep people alive. We've made extraordinary advances in medical technology in the past 60 years, which is wonderful, but application of those advances costs money.

We are in the process of a critical national debate on health care, with reform legislation pending. People with a stake in every aspect of the health care system are analyzing costs, trends, risk factors, and so on. This isn't a question of wanting everybody to prance around looking like supermodels; it is a critical debate with major economic and health repercussions for our country overall.

I've got a question for those who keep asserting that the WHO and CDC don't know what the hell they're talking about when they make BMI proclamations, or those who keep pointing out that drug addicts, underweight persons, etc. have health problems too.

Do you have access to studies or data, from credible sources, asserting that American weight increases are *not* cause for economic or national health concern, or, that there is any other epidemic or trend in this country that is a greater cause for concern in terms of economics and citizens' health?

I call bullshit. Why? Because you haven't addressed my issue about underweight people and what they're costing the public. I don't see anyone throwing fits about the problems that alcohol consumption is causing - 60% of murders are alcohol related (1.6 million murders in 2000 - source), 30% of suicides (30,000 suicides a year - source), 15% of diseases of the respiratory system, and 45% of deaths in car accidents (6,240,000 car accident deaths a year - source.)

According to the CDC the more deaths are caused by accidents than diabetes. (source.) The third leading causes of death are due to hospital error (source.) Where's the thread on that?

You don't care about my health, and you don't care about my mom's health. People find fat people to be offensive because they don't like they way they look.

 

[graceanne]

Added: I want my dad to lose weight because I want to have him around as long as possible, in the best shape possible. Same goes for my sister.

I can see that. They're your family. Do you care about how long I'm around, or bunny or any of the other people here who've admitted to weight problems? Probably in a general way, like you would that person you heard about on the TV, but not really.

 

[graceanne]

And, I'm generalizing. I'm sure that some people actually care about fat people's heath. But 99.9% could give a fuck.

 

[Primalex]

I don't see anyone throwing fits about the problems that alcohol consumption is causing

I bet you would do the very moment you create a thread about it.

You don't care about my health, and you don't care about my mom's health. People find fat people to be offensive because they don't like they way they look.

Nah, that was me, not he.

 

[Keroin]

I can see that. They're your family. Do you care about how long I'm around, or bunny or any of the other people here who've admitted to weight problems? Probably in a general way, like you would that person you heard about on the TV, but not really.

Yes, I do, actually.

Why are you so angry? Why do you find it so hard to believe me?

Furry Fury posted several months ago that she wanted to get fitter and lose some weight. I exchanged several PM's with her about ways she could do this. I've also sent PM's about diet and exercise to a few other members here. who've asked me to. I am quite happy to do the same for anyone wanting help. I've also posted several comments, suggestions, and words of encouragement on the fitness thread. All for a bunch of strangers I supposedly care nothing about.

 

[graceanne]

I bet you would do the very moment you create a thread about it.



Nah, that was me, not he.

Actually, I figured you'd be honest about this. I was kinda waiting for your input. lol

Yes, I do, actually.

Why are you so angry? Why do you find it so hard to believe me?

Furry Fury posted several months ago that she wanted to get fitter and lose some weight. I exchanged several PM with her about ways she could do this. I've also sent PM's about diet and exercise to a few other members here. I am quite happy to do the same for anyone wanting help. I've also posted several comments, suggestions, and words of encouragement on the fitness thread. All for a bunch of strangers I supposedly care nothing about.

I don't believe that anyone, short of my family and close friends, cares about me more than in a general way. Why? Experience. I guarantee if it came to me vs anyone else in the general public that I'd lose. I love that you try, and that you care more than the average person, but (without looking) what are my health problems? Why am I overweight? What did my doctors tell me regarding my weight?

As for why am I angry - I'm sick of threads like this. A bunch of people talking like they give a shit about the health of the fat person, instead of being honest (as much of an asshole as he is, at least primalex is always honest) and saying they just don't like the way we look.

And, I'm on the rag, I'm bitchy, and I want my husband. This thread is a safe outlet for my crankiness.

 

[Primalex]

Actually, I figured you'd be honest about this. I was kinda waiting for your input. lol

At your service.

Although I haven't seen you naked yet (have I?), so it's merely wild guessing.

 

[graceanne]

At your service.

Although I haven't seen you naked yet (have I?), so it's merely wild guessing.

No, and you won't. LOL Suffice it to say, I'm overweight. Working on it, but still overweight.

 

[Primalex]

As a side note, my personal dictionary:

obese - overweight and ugly
fat - overweight and/but good looking

 

[Primalex]

No, and you won't.

Give me 5 years.