A weighty issue

[Netzach]

I like to look at what fat people buy at the grocery store. I see sodas, ding dongs, twinkies, marshmallows, ice cream, chicken nuggets, pork chops, slim Jims, Jelly filled donuts, fudge, bacon, Captain Crunch, butterfingers, fatback, pizza, hot dogs, and mac and cheese. And this is pretty much the rule not the exception.

I look at what ALL the people buy at the grocery store and I'm one of three people shopping the perimeter.

Sugar cereal, processed shit, and crap that switches chemicals for LDL fats. You're better off with some butter and sugar in your life and ten extra pounds than eating that stuff and at weight. My newest rule is that if I want my ice cream splurge I can walk 3 miles once a week to the ice cream place and back. At home - if I bake it I can have it, and I don't bother. I'd rather have my own unprocessed corn syrup free unhealth if I decide to spend my time on it and my time is limited.

I've seen plenty of people who would make more money with their clothes off than I would eating absolute chemical stews of shit. They tend to prefer things like gummy worms and pixie stix as candy to chocolate though, I've noticed.

There are plenty of meds that can blow you up, make you look awful in all kinds of ways. Not everyone's on those, either.

I'm much more judgemental about the groceries in the cart than the size of the person in question, the *behavior* and the *chemistry* and not the visuals.

Granted, that person's life isn't mine, and my judgemental-ness doesn't have the energy to work itself up into frothing at the mouth. I'm busy making sole in green curry I made in my own kitchen.

I was friends with a girl in college whose size was always what mine is when I let myself go to hell in a handbasket and she had the best habits I've ever seen of anyone. She didn't have secret binges either, that wasn't her MO.

As for ED, those are really complicated. Blaming images and media, and BMI for something that's essentially caused by familial dysfunction and need for control on a personal level is shifting the issue and the blame in an easier direction than dealing with family history. The girls who "starve themselves into the grave" are not trying to be what society says they should look like, they are trying to disappear altogether.
It's a better question to ask ourselves why the fuck we're fans of that process and things that either are it or look like it.

Assuming that someone's appearance is under their control and the beautiful is the good is something left over from the Renaissance, and about as useful as its medicine. Our "food" is killing us and our relationships to it have morphed into insanity of one kind or another. You don't have to be fat to have a dog in that hunt.

 

[CutieMouse]

in the navy we have a semi annual PRT (physical readiness test) and we weigh in, if we weigh over the "preferred" weight, we get measured for bmi.

I was a rescue swimmer for two years, got paid to work out all day. All muscles and bones (not very sexy on a female btw) and my bmi was 21% but i weighed 165 at 5'5". so according to the weighing standards i was overweight. wtf??!?!

now i weigh 175, still work out, not that religiously anymore, and look healthy and normal, but even more "overweight" and my bmi is at a 27%.

tell me how America sees me as fat? marylin monroe was a size 12! a 12! im a 9-10 becuase my hip bones cant go any tinier. imagine that.

i fail to see how America can come up with a generalized weight standard when body sizes, bone structure, and muscles can clearly determine someones weight.

I was a bit busy last night, so couldn't join the discussion (and am just now catching up) but Marylin gets brought up every freaking time people discuss weight.

Marylin Monroe was a size 12 in the 1950s - 36/22/35

Based on Land's End clothing charts, a modern size 12 measures - 38/31/42.

[generic statement]

DEAR UNIVERSE, PLEASE STOP USING MARYLIN TO DEFEND WEIGHT ISSUES

[/generic statement]

*headdeskheaddeskheaddesk*

 

[00Syd]

Also more people are working behind a desk than out on a farm nowadays.

 

[Harmony_1985]

The simple fact is LIFE HAS CHANGED.

We're a society with the ability to do a job from behind a computer that 30 years ago we'd have done on foot.

We're a society that's being worked 24/7 and living on ready meals and junk food because we have no time to cook.

We're a society that has computers, video games and 300 tv channels that entertain us instead of going for a walk.

THAT'S why we're an overweight society.

But now there's so much pressure on making sure we're the weight that some suit in the WHO came up with that we're obsessing over dieting and our food. My healthy weight is somewhere around 10 and a half stone, but I know damn well I'm NEVER going to be that slim. If I can get myself down to a size 14/16 then I'd be a happy camper as I've never been that slim (I'm a size 26 now and that's UK sizing, not US).

 

[WriterDom]

Also more people are working behind a desk than out on a farm nowadays.

Computers and cable/satellite have fucked up an entire generation or two of young people. When we were kids we spent almost every waking moment outside playing. Running around in the woods, football, baseball, basketball, swimming. Our parents didn't give a fuck where we were or what we were doing. My senior year of high school I don't think I weighed more than 135.

The only kids I see outside now are 5 year olds. And they aren't allowed out of the yard.

 

[Primalex]

Computers and cable/satellite have fucked up an entire generation or two of

parents.

 

[Primalex]

Also more people are working behind a desk than out on a farm nowadays.

So all thin people today are working on a farm?

 

[nh23]

I like to look at what fat people buy at the grocery store. I see sodas, ding dongs, twinkies, marshmallows, ice cream, chicken nuggets, pork chops, slim Jims, Jelly filled donuts, fudge, bacon, Captain Crunch, butterfingers, fatback, pizza, hot dogs, and mac and cheese. And this is pretty much the rule not the exception.

I like to look at how many posts men have. I've noticed that the majority of them who have over 10,000 are over 30 and still live with their mom. That's pretty much the rule, not the exception. Overgeneralization can work multiple ways.

Master is thin, so are my children. I'm the only fat person in our house. I've finally got things caught up enough that I've been able to afford to buy healthy. Yes I said afford. I don't give a shit what anyone says, it costs more to eat healthy. We are eating fish three to four times a week. No red meat, tons of veggies and fruit, and no processed sugars.

The three of them weigh the same amount as they did when we started two months ago. I've lost 12 pounds. When we were eating less healthy they stayed the same weight and I ballooned up. I am by no means lazy. I work full time in as a pediatric nurse. I am on my feet and moving all the time. I come home from work and cook, and clean, and chase my children.

I don't get why everyone gets up in arms if we say x about black people, or x about homosexuals, but the stereotypes, and humor at the expense of fat people is still ok.

 

[CutieMouse]

I like to look at how many posts men have. I've noticed that the majority of them who have over 10,000 are over 30 and still live with their mom. That's pretty much the rule, not the exception. Overgeneralization can work multiple ways.

Master is thin, so are my children. I'm the only fat person in our house. I've finally got things caught up enough that I've been able to afford to buy healthy. Yes I said afford. I don't give a shit what anyone says, it costs more to eat healthy. We are eating fish three to four times a week. No red meat, tons of veggies and fruit, and no processed sugars.

The three of them weigh the same amount as they did when we started two months ago. I've lost 12 pounds. When we were eating less healthy they stayed the same weight and I ballooned up. I am by no means lazy. I work full time in as a pediatric nurse. I am on my feet and moving all the time. I come home from work and cook, and clean, and chase my children.

I don't get why everyone gets up in arms if we say x about black people, or x about homosexuals, but the stereotypes, and humor at the expense of fat people is still ok.

Humor at the expense of thin people is still okay, too - how many times have comments been made on this forum about "Master doesn't want to worry about breaking me like a twig"? (Implying thin people aren't strong enough/cushioned enough/whatever enough to withstand X.)

 

[nh23]

Humor at the expense of thin people is still okay, too - how many times have comments been made on this forum about "Master doesn't want to worry about breaking me like a twig"? (Implying thin people aren't strong enough/cushioned enough/whatever enough to withstand X.)

You're right. I've not said anything like that myself, but I've seen it. I should rephrase. Humor at the expense of people's weight is something that's still seen as ok.

 

[CutieMouse]

You're right. I've not said anything like that myself, but I've seen it. I should rephrase. Humor at the expense of people's weight is something that's still seen as ok.

Exactly.

I have 2 underweight children, 1 high end of normal/bordering on overweight, and 1 average weight. Same parents, food, exercise/activity levels, etc. Interestingly, the heaviest is the one who nursed for 3 years - which is supposed to help prevent obesity in adulthood. She's also the only one who eats like her father - struggling to recognize the point at which she becomes "full" vs. "OMG this tastes so good!" (something nursing long term is also supposed to help with)

(BTW I nail them all equally for making fun of a sibling's weight or height. Serious, huge, ginormous deep doodoo in Mom-land.)

At my worst I was 117#; at my worst I was 219#.

Obesity causes so many health issues, and we as a society are paying for it. Generally speaking, people have horrible relationship with food - no one really understands portions, what real food tastes like, how to prepare it, etc. Funny thing is we are more "educated" re: nutritional labels... but the more the labels have come into play, the less healthy our diets have become.

 

[JMohegan]

The simple fact is LIFE HAS CHANGED.

We're a society with the ability to do a job from behind a computer that 30 years ago we'd have done on foot.

We're a society that's being worked 24/7 and living on ready meals and junk food because we have no time to cook.

We're a society that has computers, video games and 300 tv channels that entertain us instead of going for a walk.

THAT'S why we're an overweight society.

But now there's so much pressure on making sure we're the weight that some suit in the WHO came up with that we're obsessing over dieting and our food. My healthy weight is somewhere around 10 and a half stone, but I know damn well I'm NEVER going to be that slim. If I can get myself down to a size 14/16 then I'd be a happy camper as I've never been that slim (I'm a size 26 now and that's UK sizing, not US).

From a national perspective, weight trends are having a deleterious effect on both the physical and economic health of this country. That "suit at the WHO" is working with solid data, not pressuring people sans meaningful reason to do so.

These trend lines are very revealing:


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/education.jpg


http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/income.jpg


As the source concludes, "the similarity in weight gain across groups indicates that hypotheses successful in explaining weight differences across sociodemographic groups may be less successful in generating policies to stem the obesity epidemic."

 

[Primalex]

I've finally got things caught up enough that I've been able to afford to buy healthy. Yes I said afford. I don't give a shit what anyone says, it costs more to eat healthy.

! QFT !

 

[Keroin]

The island nation I'm living on right now is in the top five of the WHO's list with over 90% of the population overweight/obese. Here's some observations:

1. The majority of these people do not spend their days behind a desk.

2. The kids on this island are always outside, running and playing.

3. We have one doctor, who is a refugee from Mynamar, and not that competent. Even if most people here could afford prescription medications, which most can't, it's likely our hospital doesn't have it, or they have it but it's expired. Trust me, health care is below basic, not many people here are on prescription drugs.

4. Most people here have a very low income.

5. Most people here eat pop, chips, donuts, cookies, deep fried chicken, deep fried fish, french fries, white bread, meat pies, tinned meat, etc.

6. Pace of life is slow, stress level is low.

7. There is no education regarding nutrition taught in the schools or anywhere.

8. There is not a single fast food restaurant on the island.

What I see are two big indicators - income level and type of food consumed. Combine that with the fact that they scooter instead of walk or cycle and, other than the rugby and netball teams, don't exercise regularly. I'm sure there are also some genetic factors in this race but not enough to account for all 90%.

I'm a healthy weight, despite the odds, but I don't think everyone should be like me. I mentioned that just to point out that I am not ignorant of the difficulties of staying healthy.

Added: I'm curious, why can't there be a discussion of weight trends without a lot of people getting very defensive? Regardless of what weight you are, do you not agree that this percentage rise, with all its attendant issues - cost, health, quality of life - is a problem worthy of discussion?

 

[Keroin]

You don't. The threads were provided for background material. Had i been more careful, i would have finished the last with "to read"

Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Keroin]

Obesity causes so many health issues, and we as a society are paying for it. Generally speaking, people have horrible relationship with food - no one really understands portions, what real food tastes like, how to prepare it, etc. Funny thing is we are more "educated" re: nutritional labels... but the more the labels have come into play, the less healthy our diets have become.

When I go to a restaurant in the US, the portion I am served is, usually,at least four times what I would normally serve myself at home. What amazes me is that I look around and see the other diners finishing everything, or almost everything, on their plate. I would be sick if I ate that much food.

Without fail, the travelers I meet here from Europe, Australia, and NZ, who have spent part of their RTW in the US, comment on how humongous the portion sizes were.

 

[Cattypuss]

Yup, I'm a Brit and on holiday in the US I would order a starter only - and have trouble finishing that, even.

And I'm fat!! What I mean to say is, I'm at least 40 pounds overweight - I'm not a light eater, but even for me US portion sizes are just outrageous!

 

[graceanne]

First of all, let's define the freakin' standard for overweight, obese, et cetera.

According to the most liberal BMI calculator (<-- link) I can find, at 6'3", my so-called "Normal Range" would be 165-200 pounds. I call pure-dee bullshit! At 200 pounds, I would be skinny; at 165, each and every one of you would call me anorexic. I'd look like Karen Carpenter the day before she died.

Sorry, guys; I'm not buying it. There is no provision in these so-called standards for skeletal size, bone mass, bone density, etc. My shoulders, point to point, are 22", my hips, ptp, 17". That's NOT flesh measurements - it's the width of the freakin' BONES.

Granted, I AM overweight. Hell, I'm fat. I weigh 270 pounds, give or take a few, and that's too much. But I've asked 3 separate doctors I trusted (2 cardiologists and a GP) over the past 11 years since my first heart attack, what I should weigh. The *lowest* range they gave me was 200-215; the highest 210-230. Each of them told me that BMI was simply a *guide,* and that responsible doctors looked at the patient, his/her frame and THEN gave the patient an appropriate weight range. Two of the three admitted that most of the weight ranges they gave their patients would qualify for "Overweight" on BMI.

BMI is bullshit, pure and simple. It attempts to put everyone into an average framework, and it just DOES NOT WORK.

I could care less what BMI says about me. My weight goal, as told to me by my doctor is 150 lbs. I'm 5' tall. I'm also very large breasted, and big boned. Always have been. I weight 152 lbs when I got married and was in a size 12 (and that was a bit big on me). I look GREAT at 150 lbs. My suggested weight is somewhere around 100 lbs. I'd be anorexic.

I look at what ALL the people buy at the grocery store and I'm one of three people shopping the perimeter.

Pretty much. If the people who spend so much time looking at fat people's carts, spent and equal amount of time looking at everyone's carts they'd realize that the majority of american (slim or fat) buy crap 99% of the time.

I was a bit busy last night, so couldn't join the discussion (and am just now catching up) but Marylin gets brought up every freaking time people discuss weight.

Marylin Monroe was a size 12 in the 1950s - 36/22/35

Based on Land's End clothing charts, a modern size 12 measures - 38/31/42.

[generic statement]

DEAR UNIVERSE, PLEASE STOP USING MARYLIN TO DEFEND WEIGHT ISSUES

[/generic statement]

*headdeskheaddeskheaddesk*

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/mmdress.asp

 

[Keroin]

Yup, I'm a Brit and on holiday in the US I would order a starter only - and have trouble finishing that, even.

And I'm fat!! What I mean to say is, I'm at least 40 pounds overweight - I'm not a light eater, but even for me US portion sizes are just outrageous!

Have you been to Vegas? That's outrageous to the tenth power. I ordered a salad at one of the casino restaurants and asked for the dressing on the side. The salad came in a bowl I would use to serve a salad if I was hosting a dinner party for six people and the dressing came in a gravy boat. This was a single serving salad! I just started to laugh when I saw it.

I said to the waitress, as a joke, "Um, do you think I could get a little more dressing?"

She didn't get the joke. I had to stop her from going to get more dressing and explain that I was kidding. She then told me that most people finish all of their dressing. WTF? I'm not kidding, there was almost a full bottle's worth of it! Egads.

 

[JMohegan]

First of all, let's define the freakin' standard for overweight, obese, et cetera.

According to the most liberal BMI calculator (<-- link) I can find, at 6'3", my so-called "Normal Range" would be 165-200 pounds. I call pure-dee bullshit! At 200 pounds, I would be skinny; at 165, each and every one of you would call me anorexic. I'd look like Karen Carpenter the day before she died.

Sorry, guys; I'm not buying it. There is no provision in these so-called standards for skeletal size, bone mass, bone density, etc. My shoulders, point to point, are 22", my hips, ptp, 17". That's NOT flesh measurements - it's the width of the freakin' BONES.

Of course there's a provision for different body types. Hence the range! The index doesn't say that all 6'3" males should weigh the same amount; there's a 35 lb. span for "normal" built into that index.

I do agree that use of the word "normal" is confusing here, though. Your link indicates that 165 lbs. and 200 lbs. are at the 5th and 33rd percentiles, respectively, for 6'3" males. Meaning: 67% of 6'3" males currently weigh more than a "normal" amount. Clearly, normal is not being used as a synonym for "average" or "typical" in this context.

Perhaps "normal" is being used, in the index, as shorthand for "neither underweight nor overweight per BMI standards."

 

[jockdom]

Countries in colder climates tend to have higher obesity levels due to the higher carbohydrate intake to keep warm. What was that program where the guy lived on nothing but McDonalds? Supersize me? The fast food industry has a lot to answer for. (I do like the occasional Chinese or pizza!)

Anything that makes you happy is addictive, same with food.

I'm not sure about the genetic argument, not many obese folk in the sudan.

But as long as it does not affect your health, who cares!

 

[midwestyankee]

Countries in colder climates tend to have higher obesity levels due to the higher carbohydrate intake to keep warm. What was that program where the guy lived on nothing but McDonalds? Supersize me? The fast food industry has a lot to answer for. (I do like the occasional Chinese or pizza!)

Anything that makes you happy is addictive, same with food.

I'm not sure about the genetic argument, not many obese folk in the sudan.

But as long as it does not affect your health, who cares!

I care, if only from an economic standpoint. My health insurance costs are higher than they might be, simply because my insurance company has to charge its overweight customers the same rates that it charges its most fit customers. Even though their actuaries are very good, the overall costs of caring for the overweight must be carried by the premiums paid by all of us.

 

[CutieMouse]

Countries in colder climates tend to have higher obesity levels due to the higher carbohydrate intake to keep warm. What was that program where the guy lived on nothing but McDonalds? Supersize me? The fast food industry has a lot to answer for. (I do like the occasional Chinese or pizza!)

Anything that makes you happy is addictive, same with food.

I'm not sure about the genetic argument, not many obese folk in the sudan.

But as long as it does not affect your health, who cares!

What does the fast food industry have to answer for? No one holds a gun to my head and makes me grab McDonalds on the way home... I love Chipotle Burrito Bowls - however, if I pay attention while I'm eating and stop when I'm full, ONE burrito bowl is enough for dinner, lunch the next day, and a snack (with tostado chips) the day after. If I don't pay attention and spend 30 minutes going "nom nom nom mmmm Chipotle" until I eat the whole damn thing in one sitting - that's my own damn fault, not the restaurant's.

 

[WriterDom]

Pretty much. If the people who spend so much time looking at fat people's carts, spent and equal amount of time looking at everyone's carts they'd realize that the majority of american (slim or fat) buy crap 99% of the time.

Then the obesity rate would be 99%. I'm sure there are a lot of women who know how to shop and how to cook healthy meals. I doubt a doctor's wife is going to serve her husband beanie weenie and cheesetoes and Mountain Dew every night.

 

[jockdom]

I care, if only from an economic standpoint. My health insurance costs are higher than they might be, simply because my insurance company has to charge its overweight customers the same rates that it charges its most fit customers. Even though their actuaries are very good, the overall costs of caring for the overweight must be carried by the premiums paid by all of us.

Thats why I said as long as it does not affect yor health. I totaly agree with you, it is a big problem in the UK too, because our National health service is allready badly over stretched.(no pun intented)