A Simply Subjectivist Argument.

[Never]

There is no right and there is no wrong; only what you believe to be right or wrong.

If you believe something is right, you are obligated to do it, or to assist it, or to not impede it.

If you believe something is wrong, you are obligated to not do it and to not assist it, and/or to impede it.

~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
This meaningless thread brought to you by the tabaso corperation. We'll give yah hot stuff, baby, this evenin'. We'll give yah hotstuff, baby, tonight.

 

[sexy-girl]

the sky is blue ... do you believe that to be right or wrong ?

and what are you going to do about it ?

 

[Modest Moose]

Is someone in Philosophy 101?

 

[Never]

If you say 'X is right' then you are saying 'I believe X is right'
If I say 'X is wrong' then I am saying 'I believe X is wrong'

Provided I:
1. Know what I am saying.
2. Believe what I am saying.

And

Provided You:
1. Know what you are saying.
2. Believe what you are saying.

Then

We disagree.
(Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Kant-lickers!)

~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~
This meaningless post brought to you by tongues incorporated, open up and say 'ahhhh'.

 

[Fly_On_Wall]

the sky is blue ... do you believe that to be right or wrong ?

and what are you going to do about it ?

no it's not it's grey.... SEE *Point's out his window*

Never I'll agree with what you said If you think something is wrong why should you be forced to aid it?
If you think it's right why be forced to deny it?

 

[Never]

the sky is blue ... do you believe that to be right or wrong ?

and what are you going to do about it ?

It's morally wrong, the sky should be brown, which is way I'm assisting the browning effort by driving my car everyday.

 

[Jersey Citizen]

(Stick that in your pipe and smoke it Kant-lickers!)

I can't believe she just said "Kant!"

(And lavender wonders if women are their own worst enemies.)

 

[Never]

Modest Moose:
"Is someone in Philosophy 101?"
One of the college kids wanted to sell back his philosophy book but it was not worth anything so he asked me to throw it away. Instead, I kept it. I have not started reading it but I have looked at the cover for several days so far and it is quite interesting.

Fly_On_The_Wall:
" Never I'll agree with what you said If you think something is wrong why should you be forced to aid it?
If you think it's right why be forced to deny it?"

I can tell that I've started a revolution in moralism already.

 

[sexy-girl]

so the important word's are "is" or "i believe"

people should always think more about those words "is" and "i" and how they use them




p.s i believe the sky is actually black ... it just appears blue or grey according to how the sun rays enter our atmosphere

 

[MysticSwing]

Mystic

Can't we just agree to dissagree? You have your opinion, I have mine. (It really has nothing to do with right or wrong, but the fact that we are all entitled to our opinion.)

Enough thinking for today... Time to go find a less through provoking thread..... *laugh*

~~Mystic

 

[Never]

This thread is thought provoking?

sexy-girl:
The sky exists, I think (I haven't gotten to that chapter yet). I'm talking about morality and stuff like that which doesn't exist outside of the electronic impulses and chemical responses of a brain.

 

[Fly_On_Wall]

p.s i believe the sky is actually black ... it just appears blue or grey according to how the sun rays enter our atmosphere

way to go, I knew I wasn't the only one thinking that way.

know what else... I belive black isn't a colour... it's a lack of colour and light.

 

[Never]

Ergo.. the sky has no color. Damn, I'm a genus.

 

[Texan]

Interesting

Let me ask.

Are you saying that BinLadin is not wrong, because he believes himself to be right?

Are you saying that Hitler, Stallin, and unrepentant serial killers are not wrong, because they believed themselves to be right?

I think the purely subjectivist viewpoint does not take into account the disparity of intellect, experience and sanity between people.

just a thought.... but because I believe I'm right, it MUST be right....

 

[Never]

Texan:
"Are you saying that BinLadin is not wrong, because he believes himself to be right?

Are you saying that Hitler, Stallin, and unrepentant serial killers are not wrong, because they believed themselves to be right?"

I believe what they did was wrong - that does not mean what they did was wrong.

 

[Texan]

way to go, I knew I wasn't the only one thinking that way.

know what else... I belive black isn't a colour... it's a lack of colour and light.

actually, black isn't the absence of color or light, it's the absence of an object to reflect light and color. Space is full of light and color, it just has very few objects to intercept and reflect that light.

 

[Never]

Ergo, the sky is full of color - only, we can't see it!
God, I'm hot tonight.

 

[Juspar Emvan]

Re: Interesting

Let me ask.

Are you saying that BinLadin is not wrong, because he believes himself to be right?

Are you saying that Hitler, Stallin, and unrepentant serial killers are not wrong, because they believed themselves to be right?

I think the purely subjectivist viewpoint does not take into account the disparity of intellect, experience and sanity between people.

just a thought.... but because I believe I'm right, it MUST be right....

"There is nothing either good or evil
Only thinking makes it so"

Myst'll get me on that one, her Shakespear is better than mine, but it's close enough.

The point is that I am not saying they are right, because I don't believe they were, but they were right in thier own minds. And who are you or I to know which of us is really right. The difference is in believing and knowing. There are so many things we believe so strongly that we're convinced we know them, but we don't really. It's beyond mere humans to deny the existance of Alah, and if that god is hanging around, mybe the USA is the Great Satan and Bin-Over-Laden is right. Not that I believe that for a second. But who knows . . ?

The sky is void, only reflected and refracted light rays give it visible form and colour. What colour is it if you're blind? Or colour blind? Can you deny the truth of those observations?

 

[Texan]

Fun thoughts

I am a pragmatist. I believe in explaining meaning and "truth" in terms of the application of ideas or beliefs to the performance of actions that have observable practical outcomes.

Hey, I'm an American and pragmatism is a distinctly American philosophical view, ie. Peirce, James & Addams.

I believe "subjectivism" works in the vacuum of solitude, but when humans interact, the theories of subjectivism implode. For example, If man X kills man Y, but doesn't believe man Y is dead, that that will not bring man Y back to life, nor prevent his death.

Now, maybe you believe the old "I think, therefore I am" line. I would argue a "truer" philisophy would state, "I breath, therefore I am."

again.... fun stuff....

 

[Juspar Emvan]

The air only exists in my imagination. So how does breathing it mean you exist?

 

[Mensa]

I see!

Ergo.. the sky has no color. Damn, I'm a "genus".

Yes, of the sub-order femina incomprehensa I believe!

 

[Black_Bird]

"Reality" can only be know through our five senses. Our five sense are *not* perfect. In addition, there are already a number of things that we can *not* sense with out the use of tools - how many other things are there that we do not realize exist?

"Reality" is subjective because we all simply lack the information to make a more exacting picture of what constitues "real".

 

[Never]

That's an interesting idea but one I have trouble with.. if reality can only be known via our five senses then how come I know that this bottle of water in front of me has a great deal of water and oxygen atoms in it when I've never seen them?

Since I've never seen them does that mean they're not 'real', or that they're not 'real to me'?

 

[Juspar Emvan]

The truth is that they are, to you, whatever you believe them to be. It's like I said earlier, you believe it so strongly that you 'know' it, but actually you don't know it, if you can follow that.

The facts and the truth don't always see eye to eye. Someone else has experienced these atoms through enhanced senses. Perhaps they were just lying, or at least mistaken?

 

[Black_Bird]

Through the use of tools we've learned to improve our sense so we might learn of "Oxygen" and other elements... of atoms, galaxies, and everthing inbetween. Still doesn't mean that our senses are perfect - there is alot that a human being, even when added with the latest equipment, can not detect. Nobody is omniscient (sp?) - and without omniscience, we will never get a totally objective picture of reality. We don't even come close...