A quick grammar check

[Mrtouf]

I've been staring at this bit of writing, thinking about the comma use. I have gone away and read online about comma usage. The rules are surprisingly easy enough to understand, but when I come to try and apply them here I can't decide whether they do or they don't.

It would be nice to have a second pair of eyes to look and tell me whether I'm seeing things or not!

“No matter what mistakes you feel you have made, you are not a horrible person, Caroline. I don't regret having been here to comfort you, to hold you and make love to you. Wilma is lucky to have taken a woman such as yourself to be hers,” Isamura reassured her, “you will be hers again when you find a way home.”

“I hope so,” Caroline said, doubt clouding her eyes. “I hope there is a way home, after all that we've endured.”

Isamura hugged her tightly and whispered reassurances in her ear, “Whatever we endure, I will always love you.”

Abruptly the lights in Caroline's quarters died. “Now what's gone wrong?” she muttered, blindly groping for her comm badge. Though the badge responded to her touch, it merely squeaked an error of some kind, unable to establish communications.​

 

[_Lynn_]

I've been staring at this bit of writing, thinking about the comma use. I have gone away and read online about comma usage. The rules are surprisingly easy enough to understand, but when I come to try and apply them here I can't decide whether they do or they don't.

It would be nice to have a second pair of eyes to look and tell me whether I'm seeing things or not!

“No matter what mistakes you feel you have made, you are not a horrible person, Caroline. I don't regret having been here to comfort you, to hold you and make love to you. Wilma is lucky to have taken a woman such as yourself to be hers,” Isamura reassured her, “you will be hers again when you find a way home.”

“I hope so,” Caroline said, doubt clouding her eyes. “I hope there is a way home, after all that we've endured.”

Isamura hugged her tightly and whispered reassurances in her ear, “Whatever we endure, I will always love you.”

Abruptly the lights in Caroline's quarters died. “Now what's gone wrong?” she muttered, blindly groping for her comm badge. Though the badge responded to her touch, it merely squeaked an error of some kind, unable to establish communications.​

I might be wrong, but without changing your wording, what about this?

“No matter what mistakes you feel you have made, you are not a horrible person, Caroline. I don't regret having been here to comfort you, to hold you, and make love to you. Wilma is lucky to have taken a woman such as yourself to be hers,” Isamura reassured her. "You will be hers again when you find a way home.”

“I hope so,” Caroline said, doubt clouding her eyes. “I hope there is a way home after all that we've endured.”

Isamura hugged her tightly and whispered reassurances in her ear. “Whatever we endure, I will always love you.”

Abruptly the lights in Caroline's quarters died. “Now what's gone wrong?” she muttered, blindly groping for her comm badge. Though the badge responded to her touch, it merely squeaked an error of some kind, unable to establish communications.​

Maybe SR will be around to offer some insight.

 

[Paul Reagan]

I concur with MistressLynn. Without changing the wording, that looks right. With the commas (those which ML replaced), the dialogue lines run-on too long.

– PR

 

[PacoFear]

For what it's worth, I think ML has the proper fix.

As a matter of taste, I'd ditch the comma in the following sentence: "I hope there is a way home, after all that we've endured." I don't think it's wrong as is though.

As ML pointed out, there's a decent chance SR will swoop in all Blackbird-like (sorry, couldn't resist) and point out our collective shortcomings.

In the meantime, though it's beyond your charge I feel obliged to comment on this sentence: "Wilma is lucky to have taken a woman such as yourself to be hers." "Such as yourself" is an awkward bit of dialogue. Why not a simple, "Wilma is lucky to have a woman like you"?

 

[sr71plt]

“No matter what mistakes you feel you have made, [This is where the "Isamura reassured her" slug should go. It comes too late in the paragraph.] you are not a horrible person, Caroline. I don't regret having been here to comfort you, to hold you and make love to you [This is correct as rendered. The serial comma would only be used if the clauses were parallel: "to comfort you, to hold you, and to make love to you]. Wilma is lucky to have taken a woman such as yourself to be hers,” Isamura reassured her, “you [her. "You] will be hers again when you find a way home.”

“I hope so,” Caroline said, doubt clouding her eyes. “I hope there is a way home, [no comma] after all that we've endured.”

Isamura hugged her tightly and whispered reassurances in her ear, [period instead of a comma]"Whatever we endure, I will always love you.”

Abruptly the lights in Caroline's quarters died. “Now what's gone wrong?” she muttered, blindly groping for her comm badge. Though the badge responded to her touch, it merely squeaked an error of some kind, unable to establish communications.

 

[PacoFear]

Hehehehe. I swear to god, it's like shining the Bat Signal up into the sky.

 

[_Lynn_]

I was close.

 

[PacoFear]

I was close.

That'd make you Batgirl.

 

[_Lynn_]

That'd make you Batgirl.

Good one.

 

[sr71plt]

Hehehehe. I swear to god, it's like shining the Bat Signal up into the sky.

It's all the mystery of timing, I think. I didn't look at the time of your post. I had just opened my computer connection at a hotel in Salida, Colorado, and was shuffling thorugh messages and such after a long day's drive through the Rockies from Mesa Verde.

 

[_Lynn_]

It's all the mystery of timing, I think. I didn't look at the time of your post. I had just opened my computer connection at a hotel in Salida, Colorado, and was shuffling thorugh messages and such after a long day's drive through the Rockies from Mesa Verde.

You mean you weren't looking for our posts?

I'm so hurt.

 

[sr71plt]

You mean you weren't looking for our posts?

I was so cockeyed from negotiating the hair-turn curves in the Million Dollar Road (cost a million dollars a mile to cut through back in the early twentieth century when it was constructed) through the Rockies today to see anything straight.

 

[_Lynn_]

I was so cockeyed from negotiating the hair-turn curves in the Million Dollar Road (cost a million dollars a mile to cut through back in the early twentieth century when it was constructed) through the Rockies today to see anything straight.

Tough to see straight when all you have surrounding you are curves.

 

[sr71plt]

Tough to see straight when all you have surrounding you are curves.

And protuberances. Let's not forget those.

Tomorrow Denver.

 

[_Lynn_]

And protuberances. Let's not forget those.

Tomorrow Denver.

Oh, we could never forget the protuberances. Not after seeing them for hours. Admiring them. Maybe even staring at one or two that deserved the extra attention because of their sheer . . . size.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I don't regret having been here to comfort you, to hold you and make love to you [This is correct as rendered. The serial comma would only be used if the clauses were parallel: "to comfort you, to hold you, and to make love to you].

The pilot's right about most of it, except the Oxford comma & parallelism in this context. Before the structure is parallel, it's a list (or series), and, in prose, it's generally the writer's choice about whether or not to put a comma before the "and" in a series of phrases. The Oxford comma has been preferable, in my experience, when a series is phrases. Every once in a while, there will be an "and" that's part of a phrase, not part of the series, and the Oxford comma will clearly signal that. An example: The photo varieties available were sepia toned, black and white, and color. In the example, the Oxford comma makes each item in the series clear, despite the presence of two "ands." While common knowledge makes "black and white" a single item, Oxford comma or no, the double nouns in a series do crop up where the connection isn't obvious. Should you use the Oxford comma? Depends on your preference. The only hard and fast rule about it is that if you use it once, you must use it every time you have a series.

Parallelism is required for good grammar, and that means that all the verbs in the series must either be infinitive forms or not infinitives for proper grammar. Parallelism simply means that in a series, the word formations should be similar.

The parallelism caveat: It's quoted speech from dialogue. In quoted speech, the grammar rules are usurped by dialect/idiom rules. No one speaks with perfect grammar, so the requirement for parallellism is waived in dialogue. The words in between the quotation marks, as well as their order, should be true to the character, not true to standard grammar. Once the words have been chosen, the punctuation follows grammar rules as best it can.

 

[Mrtouf]

Thanks for the help, everyone. I'm now minded to save a new version each time I take a stab at changing things.

What Isamura said in the first version was, "I don’t regret having been here to comfort you, to hold you, make love to you." It was a more natural spoken sentence and I should have let it stand.

Now I will have to go finish my grammar training before I accidentally drop a statue on someone's foot.

 

[sr71plt]

The pilot's right about most of it, except the Oxford comma & parallelism in this context. Before the structure is parallel, it's a list (or series), and, in prose, it's generally the writer's choice about whether or not to put a comma before the "and" in a series of phrases. The Oxford comma has been preferable, in my experience, when a series is phrases. Every once in a while, there will be an "and" that's part of a phrase, not part of the series, and the Oxford comma will clearly signal that. An example: The photo varieties available were sepia toned, black and white, and color. In the example, the Oxford comma makes each item in the series clear, despite the presence of two "ands." While common knowledge makes "black and white" a single item, Oxford comma or no, the double nouns in a series do crop up where the connection isn't obvious. Should you use the Oxford comma? Depends on your preference. The only hard and fast rule about it is that if you use it once, you must use it every time you have a series.

Parallelism is required for good grammar, and that means that all the verbs in the series must either be infinitive forms or not infinitives for proper grammar. Parallelism simply means that in a series, the word formations should be similar.

The parallelism caveat: It's quoted speech from dialogue. In quoted speech, the grammar rules are usurped by dialect/idiom rules. No one speaks with perfect grammar, so the requirement for parallellism is waived in dialogue. The words in between the quotation marks, as well as their order, should be true to the character, not true to standard grammar. Once the words have been chosen, the punctuation follows grammar rules as best it can.

First, mainstream publishing doesn't give the author the option of using the Oxford comma in series or not. Mainstream publishing is geared to the reader, not the author, so it will use the Oxford comma for a parallel series (or make the series in the narrative parallel and use it) no matter what the author thinks unless the author is more valuable to the publisher than the reader is (which happens, of course).

Beyond that, I don't see where this disagrees with what I wrote. For that specific series to be parallel, the last clause should have repeated the "to." Since it didn't, what was rendered was just a quirk of dialogue, which is acceptable.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

If SR is Batman and ML Batgirl, does that make PF Robin? Think of the green Speedos.

For once a question as I'm getting confused. I go with ML's edit and KM's and SR's corrections for parallelism, but I don't follow the link with the serial comma.

Surely it still rests as a great bone of contention?

Strunk and White are against the Oxford comma and the Oxford Press has abandoned it. Most US journalist style guides come down against it and virtually all British and Australian style guides do the same.

To quote the Australian Government's Style Manual for Authors, Editors and Printers;

"The serial comma is only allowed when its omission might either give rise to ambiguity or cause the last word or phrase to be construed with a preposition in the preceding phrase"

Am I totally wrong in thinking that (agreeing with the points on eccentricities of dialogue) using the serial comma with "and" is often tautologous? I thought that in parallelism, you use a conjunction or a comma, but never both

Seriously, sr, what is the true global take on the serial comma?

 

[PacoFear]

If SR is Batman and ML Batgirl, does that make PF Robin? Think of the green Speedos.

Hey, stay out of my laundry hamper.

-PF

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Seriously ... what is the true global take on the serial comma?

I offer a UK response to your question, as SR will doubtless offer one from his perspective.

There is no "true global" consensus on this question. It is largely a matter of personal preference, though it is becoming far less fashionable than it was during most of the last century.

Being almost antediluvian myself, I was taught to use it at school, and always do so.

Again, I reiterate the advice I have offered before:
To find where you need commas, just read it aloud. Where you pause for a moment, put a comma. Where you pause for a little longer, put a full stop. Where you pause for breath, put a new paragraph. If you use MSWord and have access to Microsoft Reader (a free download ) have it read the words to you; that way you will also spot the missing words and the typos.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

While we are sorting out commas, I posted a sentence on Story Ideas (as part of the development of an idea) which had me completely flummoxed. Which of the following is "correct"?

Do this in a country with relatively primitive forensic facilities, so car with dead body, plus missing car owner, equals dead owner.

Do this in a country with relatively primitive forensic facilities, so car with dead body, plus missing car owner equals dead owner.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

While we are sorting out commas, I posted a sentence on Story Ideas (as part of the development of an idea) which had me completely flummoxed. Which of the following is "correct"?

Do this in a country with relatively primitive forensic facilities, so car with dead body, plus missing car owner, equals dead owner.

Do this in a country with relatively primitive forensic facilities, so car with dead body, plus missing car owner equals dead owner.

*dips toe nervously in water*

I think they are both wrong. The comma before 'so' is fine but the other two are surely not necessary.

Do this in a country with relatively primitive forensic facilities, so car with dead body plus missing car owner equals dead owner.

Doesn't 'plus' act as a conjunction and 'equals' as the verb? Sort of, 'two and two is four'.

 

[Esperanza_Hidalgo]

I wonder if any caped crusaders may take a peek to assist Dork Girl?

This is under the same umbrella as above.

The screens focused on filtered information customized to his plans. The top three featured closed-captioned headline news from the Middle East, South Africa, and Russia, and the bottom three streamed stock market quotations from various markets around the globe.

I thought about separating the last sentence, but it sounded funny when I read it out loud. I settled on the version below. It is cleaner, but I lost the specificity. Suggestions?

The top three featured closed-captioned headline news from around the globe, and the bottom three streamed stock market quotations.

My preference is to keep the specificity. The commas interrupt flow.

 

[Mrtouf]

If the headline news is relevant to the plot you can probably use a sentence or more per headline story, right?