A question of gender

[Brandie69]

I'm vaguely aware that the word blond/blonde is one of the rare instances in the English language where the spelling of the word changes depending on the gender of the person it describes. (I almost wrote "the spelling of the adjective," but then it occurred to me that blond/blonde can be either an adjective -- "the blond farm boy" -- or noun -- "the blonde farmed boys.")

A similar example occurs to me, and I wonder if someone can comment on the correct usage. That is, "fiancé." I'm quite sure that, in French, you add an extra "e" to the word when speaking of the bride-to-be. Is the same true in English?

And finally, are there other examples of this?

 

[sun_sea_sky]

I Googled "fiance vs fiancee" and found page after page that appeared to indicate that, in English, you add the extra "e" for the female.

 

[TinyBeth]

I always understood that it is "fiancée" is the proper feminine version of the word. (With or without the accent)

 

[sr71plt]

The blond/blonde difference doesn't depend on whether it's a noun or adjective. It holds for both. But the use is being worn down. The "blonde" spelling is erroding and "blond" is taking over for both. (Until the distinction is gone, though, I'll use it--because I find it distracting when it doesn't follow the conventional form.)

the fiancé/fiancée distinction remains solid and can be found in Webster's.

 

[Brandie69]

Thanks, both of you. MS Word automatically adds the accent, saving me the trouble of mis-using an apostrophe.

And, yeah, the word with only one "e" looks wrong to me, when describing the woman.

Ah, well, off to review the steps for "submitting an edit."

 

[Brandie69]

I'm definitely with you on the blond/blonde distinction, sr.

It strikes me as funny that the fiancé/fiancée distinction seems actually to be more firmly entrenched in the language than the blond/blonde one is. And yet I am more sure of the latter than I am of the former.

(Incidentally, as I'm typing here in this text box, the text editor changes fiancé but not fiancee to give it the acute accent. Odd.)

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

Alumnus/alumni for a male graduate/male graduates of an institution, and alumna/alumnae for a female graduate/female graduates.

While the male forms are often used for women who attend coed schools, don't go using the male forms at Smith or Wellesley or other women's colleges--you'll likely be corrected.

ETA of course now that I wrote all of that, it occurs to me that this is less about spelling and more about using different words, as for widow and widower or bachelor and bachelorette.

 

[PennLady]

When it comes to hair, it's "blond" regardless of gender. If you're talking about a person, then a guy is "the blond" and a woman is "the blonde." At least that's my experience.

For other words like fiancé/fiancée, divorcé/divorcée, you add the extra "e" to denote feminine. Also to indicate a maiden, you can use né/née, as in Jane Smith, née Jones. You'd use "né" for a guy, but there would be fewer occasions for that, I'd think.

 

[sr71plt]

When it comes to hair, it's "blond" regardless of gender. If you're talking about a person, then a guy is "the blond" and a woman is "the blonde." At least that's my experience.

Webster's trumps a hundred thousand different personal experiences. It's in Webster's, specifically indexed to hair color.

Life in conventional writing is really much more simple than writers seem to want to make it. The answer is frequently right there in the sources.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Instead of "this is my fiancée" how about "this is my betrothed?"

Or, "We're gonna get married!"

"And, I'm having a baby!"

"Shh, woman."

 

[sr71plt]

Instead of "this is my fiancée" how about "this is my betrothed?"

Sure, if your story is set in the nineteenth century.

Again, it's in the dictionary. What's the problem with just looking it up and rendering it correctly?

 

[MaxSebastian]

I've seen brunet and brunette as well but it may have been a typo (brunet looks funny), I never did check - always use brunette myself and never describe a male as a brunette/brunet for some reason.

Blond just looks male to me in reading, I always go blonde writing the female version.

It seems to be words borrowed from the french or latin.

 

[sr71plt]

I've seen brunet and brunette as well but it may have been a typo (brunet looks funny), I never did check - always use brunette myself and never describe a male as a brunette/brunet for some reason.

Blond just looks male to me in reading, I always go blonde writing the female version.

It seems to be words borrowed from the french or latin.

Yes, that's one. In Webster's, brunet is identified for a male and brunette for a female.

Interesting. Hadn't seen that one before. Thanks.

 

[Verdad]

Masseuse. Most people seem to use it for both genders. English tends to do that to borrowed words, but this one really grates on me. If it's accompanied by a male name, I want to ask, what, is she pre-op?

The guy is masseur.

 

[Handley_Page]

ETA of course now that I wrote all of that, it occurs to me that this is less about spelling and more about using different words, as for widow and widower or bachelor and bachelorette.

bachelorette ? (how very Hollywood!)

Don't you mean 'spinster' (as 'of this parish') ?

 

[oggbashan]

Dorothy L Sayers was very rude about the feminine terms for university people.

She hated 'undergraduette' for undergraduate, 'domina' for 'don', and other invented female versions. She railed against it in a short story, in her novel Gaudy Night, and in conversation.

She, along with other women, were annoyed with Oxford and Cambridge Universities who let women study, take and pass examinations, but would not award the degree that had been achieved (nor the MA earned after attending a few dinners ).

In the UK now, women students outnumber men at almost every university. Their degrees and status are identical.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

I'm inclined to agree in many cases, such as policeman/policewoman, author/authoress and so on.

However we have wife/husband, so fiancé/fiancée seems OK to me.

Although I suppose you have to wonder, now that we have gay marriages (in some places at least) whether you then have fiancée/fiancée or fiancé/fiancé in those cases.

Ah well, there is still "betrothed".

 

[MarieWriter]

blond/e

I'm a redhead, I save myself the trouble by making my characters reds.

 

[sr71plt]

Bald would work too. (Or is a female without head hair called "balde"?)

 

[firesflair]

Alumnus/alumni for a male graduate/male graduates of an institution, and alumna/alumnae for a female graduate/female graduates.

While the male forms are often used for women who attend coed schools, don't go using the male forms at Smith or Wellesley or other women's colleges--you'll likely be corrected.

ETA of course now that I wrote all of that, it occurs to me that this is less about spelling and more about using different words, as for widow and widower or bachelor and bachelorette.

huh, I didn't know that about alumni, I've never heard the female forms, only the male, even when refrencing a female. and at the sorority I used to belong to they used alumni. (for both singular or/and plural)

 

[sr71plt]

huh, I didn't know that about alumni, I've never heard the female forms, only the male, even when refrencing a female. and at the sorority I used to belong to they used alumni. (for both singular or/and plural)

Did you bother to try the dictionary? It's there.

 

[oggbashan]

Did you bother to try the dictionary? It's there.

It may be, but a university's usage is its own affair. If they choose not to use a feminine version, but the male version to describe attributes of either sex, they can do it.

An example in common use in the UK is 'Chairman'. A Chairman could be male or female until the 1970s. Chairwoman was felt to be too close to 'Charwoman' (Cleaner) for comfort. Some people now use the neutral 'Chair' - but that's a piece of furniture.

Chair, Chairman, Chairwoman (and Charwoman) are all in my dictionary but I am Chairman of several organisations, in some cases having succeeded women who held the post of Chairman before me.

 

[sr71plt]

It may be, but a university's usage is its own affair. If they choose not to use a feminine version, but the male version to describe attributes of either sex, they can do it.

Tilt. The point was that a female equivalent of alumni IS in the dictionary. It's truly headscratching how many writers rely on "I've have been told" rather than looking it up in the dictionary. This is especially so when they are responding to a forum discussion. In less time, they could have looked it up.

 

[sun_sea_sky]

Some people now use the neutral 'Chair' - but that's a piece of furniture.

I supposed it depends whether you say "I am a chair" or "I am the Chair".

It could get amusing at a meeting:

"We'll start once the Chair gets here."

"But we're all seated!"

I similar word could be Head (head master, head of human resources etc.). You might say:

"We'll start once the Head gets here."

"But I've already got one!"

 

[SandraMustard]

"We'll start once the Head gets here."

"But I've already got one!"

OR: "But I've already given one!"

ETA: I've always pondered, is the one who gives head, the header, and the one who receives head, the headee?