A question for the group

[Nynah]

My answer leaned toward the elements of a story that are most important to reader's enjoyment. I think it's the erotic idea, the theme, that turns readers on. The story's execution doesn't have to be great to get a great response as long as the focus remains clear.

I disagree with this to a point. Yes, the erotic conceit is typically what drives interest but speaking for myself, the execution also has to be of a certain quality. I have read many a story that enticed me with the title/tagline/premise, only to be disappointed by the way it was presented. Not saying it has to be Pulitzer-level in terms of quality (though there are a number of stories that I've read here that could certainly qualify on the strength of their prose alone) but it does need to demonstrate enough competency to be readable, at least for me. I can't really enjoy something when I'm trying to figure out what the author is saying, even if it's an idea/situation I vibe with.

In my opinion, the sci-fi genre has fewer readers because too many authors feel they need to create a fantasy world filled with people, places and things that are difficult for some readers to get their head around. Many read more like a video game session than a story. That's fine for some readers, but difficult for others to enjoy because the characters and plot stretches far beyond being plausible, let alone believable. No matter how much technology improves, humans will still be the same people we are today. They might have more knowledge, but the same hopes and fears in us will also be present in them. That's why "Star Wars", "Star Trek" and other movies in this genre were so successful. They're stories set in a future time, but the characters, even the aliens, and their reactions to each other are the same as we'd react today if put into a similar situation.

I agree with this. Sci-fi & fantasy both have to worldbuild a lot when presenting an original story that isn't based on pre-existing media, so if an author must devote a lot of time up front to doing that, it may provide an unintended barrier to entry for readers who are just looking for a quick wank. This is why a lot of the sci-fi/fantasy smut I've read tend to come from established franchises like the aforementioned Star Wars & Star Trek because those already have pre-built worlds to hop into and play around in. Whereas if you create an entirely original world, you have to spend so much more time to set the scene and make sure the reader is aware of what you want them to be aware of.

 

[NotWise]

I disagree with this to a point. Yes, the erotic conceit is typically what drives interest but speaking for myself, the execution also has to be of a certain quality. I have read many a story that enticed me with the title/tagline/premise, only to be disappointed by the way it was presented. Not saying it has to be Pulitzer-level in terms of quality (though there are a number of stories that I've read here that could certainly qualify on the strength of their prose alone) but it does need to demonstrate enough competency to be readable, at least for me. I can't really enjoy something when I'm trying to figure out what the author is saying, even if it's an idea/situation I vibe with.

This is a very AH or authorial point of view. I've expressed it myself and I'm not disagreeing, but there's an important matter of degree. I do think it might be a niche point of view.

As authors who come here partly to share their art, our standards for the quality of the execution is higher than most readers'. I've heard over-and-over readers and other writers complain that a story with a high rating is poorly written, or that another story is well-written, but the unwashed readers don't appreciate it.

The correlation between the quality of execution and readers' response seems poor, and that's part of what makes me think that something else drives the readers' reaction.

As to Sci-Fi and Fantasy... Writers who post there are often more interested in world-building than they are in the erotic aspects of the story, so the crowd has been winnowed down to small group of readers who enjoy the world building. My own stories there don't put a lot of effort into world-building. One is an historical fantasy set in medieval Spain and the other two have most of their world-building done in a two-paragraph intro and in the story teller's short setup and asides.

 

[AG31]

It's easy to claim that any pleasure one derives from reading erotica, whether a short stroker or a novel by Pauline Reage, relies on an idea. One could say that about any kind of literature. A story is not a vibrator or a basketball.

So what you've got here are multiple interesting questions. What (idea) makes us enjoy a well crafted story, whether erotic or not? What (idea) makes us get turned on by a particular story?

Here's my thought that's most relevant to your question. After a fifty year hiatus from reading erotica (gave up on finding much of anything approaching the quality of The Story of O), I began trying to puzzle out just what exactly was going on in my fixation on strong men surrendering with dignity. It took a couple of years of cogitation to understood that erotica of that sort elicited some of the same feelings I experienced when reading about non-sexual surrender. Nathan Hale was my big childhood hero. Dying We Live (a collection of last letters from victims of the holocaust) was a seminal book in my youth. So the driving "idea" in my taste in ertoca is surrender with dignity. It informs my taste in stories with enough sex to turn me on.

I've just lately realized that if I bump into a story with this theme, it really doesn't matter whether it's well done or not for me to be swept up. I've happily read some "discoveries" that were terribly written.

This whole reply applies only to erotica and that related "idea." For all my other reading I require quality writing. I'll put a book down within 2 pages if it makes enough quality errors.

 

[AG31]

That catches the essence that's in my writing, I think, the humanity.

Yup.

 

[AG31]

A woman walking naked by a pool isn't inherently interesting if, for instance, she's a long-time nudist walking by a pool in a nudist community. But if she's walking naked by a pool where you're not supposed to be naked on a dare,then it's interesting. If she's walking naked because her husband wants her too, it's interesting.

Good illustration.

 

[NotWise]

So what you've got here are multiple interesting questions. What (idea) makes us enjoy a well crafted story, whether erotic or not? What (idea) makes us get turned on by a particular story?

I'd phrase the questions differently, because "what" idea appeals to readers depends on the reader, so it's a topic I was specifically avoiding in the opening post.

I'd restate both as, 'How do you craft a story to make an idea more arousing for the reader?"

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

I'd phrase the questions differently, because "what" idea appeals to readers depends on the reader, so it's a topic I was specifically avoiding in the opening post.

I'd restate both as, 'How do you craft a story to make an idea more arousing for the reader?"

For me, it's how one can imbue an erotic element into (most) scenes within a plot to keep the mystery/tease/anticipation worth reading on. And even better when it's not the obvious, direct flirtation or seduction.

Recently, I read a short-ish Lit story where characters were doing an outdoors activity midway through the story, for what felt like 4000 words. Nothing sexual was alluded to. Didn't hold my interest.

 

[LexxRuthless]

I really wanted to give my thoughtful hypothesis. After looking over how my writing and some of my personal favorites here have performed over the years, I believe the correct answer is, "I do not fucking know."

Stories I've thought would be well-received have bombed. A really long story that I expected would get hammered wound up being my highest-scoring. A short "stroker" that I wrote purely as an exercise and wasn't even going to post on Lit is now my most-viewed and most-favorited.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/siMw2eNSuEpigLwcuA/giphy.gif

 

[NotWise]

Maybe you have a preconception of what your stories need to be successful that keeps you from seeing the pattern. The bombs are probably the ones that need the most thought.

 

[LexxRuthless]

Maybe you have a preconception of what your stories need to be successful that keeps you from seeing the pattern. The bombs are probably the ones that need the most thought.

Perhaps it is a disconnect between the numbers (scores, favorites, views) and what I enjoyed reading on the site before I began writing and posting my own stories. The stories I enjoyed the most were rarely in the category's Hall of Fame. So, when I look at something I've written and think, "Well, these stories did better / worse than I expected," I'm using the numbers as a referendum. If someone else had written the story, would I have thought it was good? Would it have done anything for me? I don't think my writing is amazing, but I do think it's enjoyable.

 

[NotWise]

For me, it's how one can imbue an erotic element into (most) scenes within a plot to keep the mystery/tease/anticipation worth reading on. And even better when it's not the obvious, direct flirtation or seduction.

Recently, I read a short-ish Lit story where characters were doing an outdoors activity midway through the story, for what felt like 4000 words. Nothing sexual was alluded to. Didn't hold my interest.

This is probably good advice for most Lit stories, but not all. Some erotic concepts are complex and take an effort to develop. They can probably crop up in any category, but stories in Mature and Romance are frequent examples. To readers not attuned to it, development may seem like pointless story-telling. There are also stories on Lit that aren't fundamentally erotic. They're stories with sex in them.

And then there are stories where the author likes to read their own writing, and they get carried away. I'll confess to that. It isn't good for an erotic story.

 

[burgwad]

And then there are stories where the author likes to read their own writing, and they get carried away. I'll confess to that. It isn't good for an erotic story.

Hm? Define “good for.”

 

[NotWise]

Hm? Define “good for.”

Doesn't improve reader's enjoyment, measured by rating.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I disagree with this to a point. Yes, the erotic conceit is typically what drives interest but speaking for myself, the execution also has to be of a certain quality. I have read many a story that enticed me with the title/tagline/premise, only to be disappointed by the way it was presented. Not saying it has to be Pulitzer-level in terms of quality (though there are a number of stories that I've read here that could certainly qualify on the strength of their prose alone) but it does need to demonstrate enough competency to be readable, at least for me. I can't really enjoy something when I'm trying to figure out what the author is saying, even if it's an idea/situation I vibe with.


I agree with this. Sci-fi & fantasy both have to worldbuild a lot when presenting an original story that isn't based on pre-existing media, so if an author must devote a lot of time up front to doing that, it may provide an unintended barrier to entry for readers who are just looking for a quick wank. This is why a lot of the sci-fi/fantasy smut I've read tend to come from established franchises like the aforementioned Star Wars & Star Trek because those already have pre-built worlds to hop into and play around in. Whereas if you create an entirely original world, you have to spend so much more time to set the scene and make sure the reader is aware of what you want them to be aware of.

I don't think you do, and I have a story in Sci-fi that's short, and has no real world building, it just puts you right in it, like star wars did, excluding the info dump at the beginning. You know there's ship yards, and androids, then you [barely] how at least that ship works, that there's aliens, other planets, and alien porn on galactic cable. I have another one, that doesn't reveal much, but an alien invasion and the mc is the champion, and only after her one night stand, do you learn what she really does, and what she is. And I need to get that on here.

A lot of scifi and fantasy stuff don't just offload info and exposition dumps right off the top. I know Ghost In The Shell didn't, and Nora Roberts In Death series doesn't, niether did that one urban fantasy movie Will Smith did, that year he did all those movies, everybody forgot about, when Bad Boys three, released the same year. So did The Orville. And like anything else, all this media started fresh from nothing but an idea, like we do.