a quest for a form...

[wildsweetone]

I really enjoy being made to think 'deeper' with a poem. By that I mean taking one thought and looking at it from many different angles, kind of like clustering.

I like doing that because it gives my mind a good exercising, and I also like it because it extends the length of my writing. Sometimes when I write I can just manage to get one or two verses down on paper. I want more than that. I want to take a thought and to fly with it and tell a complete story with my words.

What forms do you suggest I try to help me extend my writing?

I am thinking something along the lines of the Sestina, but if there are better forms please tell me.

 

[PatCarrington]

What forms do you suggest I try to help me extend my writing?

you know my answer, but i'll give it anyway.

NONE.

free verse is where the freedom you look for can be found.

 

[wildsweetone]

I should have seen that coming Patrick, but I didn't. *smiling*

I sat down last week and wrote a lame free verse about something that I was watching outside my window. When I looked at it I thought it was okay. A few days later I turned it into a piece of work that had rhyme (*cringe*) and frankly it filled out the poem into something far in excess of the lame free verse.

It's made me wonder if the freedom I seek when I write is not what it seems. hmm it's not easy to explain and I think I'm not making much sense.

hmm Would it be an idea to write short shorts (prose), if I can, and then turn it into poetry if I'm going to stick with free verse?

 

[champagne1982]

you know my answer, but i'll give it anyway.

NONE.

free verse is where the freedom you look for can be found.

Ahhh, the form buster ! WSO, Mr Carrington is correct in stating free verse is freedom poetified, but I'm not sure you're seeking freedom at the moment. A good form that lends itself well to long narratives would be a rubaiyat. Instead of end rhymes to tie the stanza's together, you could free up the form by using a synonym or a repetitious phrase, perhaps.

A "Bob" can also force length into your story if you interlock the form, ie: create a circle and come back to the starting refrain.

I can only give you examples I have written. The rubaiyat - Solstice and the bob - Weave (an interlocked bob).

A sestina is a wonderful tool to extend your writing through some length, but you have to be careful that the stanza's don't get too repetitious in vocabulary, since you've already got the 6 repeating words at the end of each line. Try to vary word choice throughout each stanza, writing a different point of view or even a different characteristic on the chosen subject within each one. An excellent help I found when I first tried the form was to seek words that can be used as both nouns and verbs BUT avoid the gerund (noun/verbs that end with 'ing') trap.

Good luck with the search!

 

[Angeline]

you know my answer, but i'll give it anyway.

NONE.

free verse is where the freedom you look for can be found.

or where people who are afraid to try form poetry can hide.

 

[ruminator]

or where people who are afraid to try form poetry can hide.

It is my sincere opinion that I am not worthy of the art to pursue proper forms.



I'm a word bungler who accidently slips on inspiration to create a sight drawing curious onlookers.


....or I'm hiding....your choice.

 

[champagne1982]

It is my sincere opinion that I am not worthy of the art to pursue proper forms.



I'm a word bungler who accidently slips on inspiration to create a sight drawing curious onlookers.


....or I'm hiding....your choice.

Peek a boo!

There are so many varied and interesting ways to make your work look and read. Why would you claim to be unworthy when all you need do is look for a bit of style and fun inside your bungling wordiness to draw more attention to what you're trying to say?

Form does NOT need rhyme or even iambs to be what it is. Those are poetic devices and can be employed in (gasp) even free verse. Form is just another way to show off your ideas and for big word sluts, (like me), showing off our forms is, just another way to be an exhibitionist.

 

[ruminator]

Peek a boo!

There are so many varied and interesting ways to make your work look and read. Why would you claim to be unworthy when all you need do is look for a bit of style and fun inside your bungling wordiness to draw more attention to what you're trying to say?

Form does NOT need rhyme or even iambs to be what it is. Those are poetic devices and can be employed in (gasp) even free verse. Form is just another way to show off your ideas and for big word sluts, (like me), showing off our forms is, just another way to be an exhibitionist.

....covers my eyes to become invisible again....

uhm,.....I agree with everything you just said.

....I'm lazy,....a slacker,.....the one who was said to never live up to his potential....ah,......there's more, I just can't think of them right now,....


Honestly, the accurate reason is I'm too undisciplined too have done it yet but I plan to.

 

[Angeline]

It is my sincere opinion that I am not worthy of the art to pursue proper forms.



I'm a word bungler who accidently slips on inspiration to create a sight drawing curious onlookers.


....or I'm hiding....your choice.

Oh, it doesn't really matter to me dear Rumi. I think people should write whatever they want.

On the other hand, I don't think art (or an artist) is well served by the suggestion that there is a single right way to create. For me, exploration of both traditional forms and free verse has helped me grow as a writer--I have found freedom in that. That may not be the case for others, but to discourage someone from experimentation that may lead to growth--whatever form or nonform that experimentation takes--seems to me the antithesis of freedom.

It's just my opinion and I offer it with respect, but I call em as I see em.

 

[Angeline]

Peek a boo!

There are so many varied and interesting ways to make your work look and read. Why would you claim to be unworthy when all you need do is look for a bit of style and fun inside your bungling wordiness to draw more attention to what you're trying to say?

Form does NOT need rhyme or even iambs to be what it is. Those are poetic devices and can be employed in (gasp) even free verse. Form is just another way to show off your ideas and for big word sluts, (like me), showing off our forms is, just another way to be an exhibitionist.

Oh and you're such a big word slut. You're so outed.

 

[PatCarrington]

or where people who are afraid to try form poetry can hide.

you're just trying to trick me into writing a sonnet, or a pastina...

i'm not fallin' for it.

 

[Angeline]

you're just trying to trick me into writing a sonnet, or a pastina...

i'm not fallin' for it.

See my comment above.

People should write what they want--desire to explore any type of writing is a good thing imo.

 

[ruminator]

you're just trying to trick me into writing a sonnet, or a pastina...

i'm not fallin' for it.

Would that be pastina marinara with a side salad?

I'm gullible....they tricked me into trying harder.

 

[ruminator]

Oh, it doesn't really matter to me dear Rumi. I think people should write whatever they want.

On the other hand, I don't think art (or an artist) is well served by the suggestion that there is a single right way to create. For me, exploration of both traditional forms and free verse has helped me grow as a writer--I have found freedom in that. That may not be the case for others, but to discourage someone from experimentation that may lead to growth--whatever form or nonform that experimentation takes--seems to me the antithesis of freedom.

It's just my opinion and I offer it with respect, but I call em as I see em.

Hey....a good analogy would be some pics of poorly formed concrete work I've seen. The same materials can be used in a variety of ways for different effects.

I appreciate the structure and intent of the different forms but in my inexperience I'm unsteady as to possibly coming off as pretentious in trying to use some.

Put it this way,....there's very little in artistic measures I actually dislike.

 

[PatCarrington]

See my comment above.

People should write what they want--desire to explore any type of writing is a good thing imo.

i agree.

if it's fun, and you like it, do it.

just write, period.

 

[flyguy69]

I knew a guy that made pictures out of little pieces of masking tape. Different colors of tape. He would tear little pieces off and stick 'em onto a board to create shapes of trees, or birds, or mountains. When he finished he would give them away to someone (typically a love interest) who would politely thank him then stash it in their parent's basement.

The picture has to stand on its own as good art first (Lauren, are we already having this conversation?), then be remarkable for its medium.

I think poetry form is the same way. If it isn't poetic first, the adherance to form means squat.

 

[PatCarrington]

Ahhh, the form buster !

that sounds like i'm riding around in an old ambulance with bill murray
and a nuclear poem-blaster on my back.

 

[flyguy69]

that sounds like i'm riding around in an old ambulance with bill murray
and a nuclear poem-blaster on my back.

How are you at getting songs out of people's heads?


Damn! Thanks a lot, Pat!

 

[ruminator]

How are you at getting songs out of people's heads?


Damn! Thanks a lot, Pat!

(Go go)

If there's something weird in your triolet
Who you gonna call?
CALL ME!
If there's something strange in your sonnet way
Who you gonna call?
CALL!

If you see remarks all filled with scorn
Who can you call?
FORMBUSTERS!

An invisible man sabatoge your form
Who you gonna call?
FORMBUSTERS!

(Oh yeah)
I ain't afraid of no forms,

 

[flyguy69]

(Go go)

If there's something weird in your triolet
Who you gonna call?
CALL ME!
If there's something strange in your sonnet way
Who you gonna call?
CALL!

If you see remarks all filled with scorn
Who can you call?
FORMBUSTERS!

An invisible man sabatoge your form
Who you gonna call?
FORMBUSTERS!

(Oh yeah)
I ain't afraid of no forms,

I knew my paranormal meter was howling for a reason-- you're a demon, Rumi, a demon!

 

[ruminator]

I knew my paranormal meter was howling for a reason-- you're a demon, Rumi, a demon!

I'm not ashamed to say that Sigourney is my main memory from that movie and that's mostly a reminder of her scenes in Alien.

*whew*.....now I'm recreating Natasha's Species scenes in my head.

http://www.celebritymoviearchive.com/tour/movie.php/5165


now, that is my idea of nice form.

 

[flyguy69]

I'm not ashamed to say that Sigourney is my main memory from that movie and that's mostly a reminder of her scenes in Alien.

*whew*.....now I'm recreating Natasha's Species scenes in my head.

http://www.celebritymoviearchive.com/tour/movie.php/5165


now, that is my idea of nice form.

It almost rescues an abominable movie!

I think I watched Sigourney change into her space suit until the tape wore out in that spot.

 

[Angeline]

I knew a guy that made pictures out of little pieces of masking tape. Different colors of tape. He would tear little pieces off and stick 'em onto a board to create shapes of trees, or birds, or mountains. When he finished he would give them away to someone (typically a love interest) who would politely thank him then stash it in their parent's basement.

The picture has to stand on its own as good art first (Lauren, are we already having this conversation?), then be remarkable for its medium.

I think poetry form is the same way. If it isn't poetic first, the adherance to form means squat.

Isn't that also true of free verse?

And doesn't everyone have to start somewhere, no matter what they're writing?

Interest in form versus free verse on this forum waxes and wanes. When I came here in 2002, the regulars were very interested in form. Now it seems the opposite. For the record, my favorite poet here--smithpeter--never wrote a form poem. I just don't get why we have to make it such a dichotomy. It's all poetry, we all have our preferences, we all want to be "poetic," which appears to mean different things to different people.

I wonder if Shakespeare would have thought Bukowski was poetic? Or if Langston Hughes would have thought Bill Knott was? You know what I think? I think they all are and I also think it doesn't make any difference what I think. I just know what works for me.

 

[ruminator]

Isn't that also true of free verse?

And doesn't everyone have to start somewhere, no matter what they're writing?

Interest in form versus free verse on this forum waxes and wanes. When I came here in 2002, the regulars were very interested in form. Now it seems the opposite. For the record, my favorite poet here--smithpeter--never wrote a form poem. I just don't get why we have to make it such a dichotomy. It's all poetry, we all have our preferences, we all want to be "poetic," which appears to mean different things to different people.

I wonder if Shakespeare would have thought Bukowski was poetic? Or if Langston Hughes would have thought Bill Knott was? You know what I think? I think they all are and I also think it doesn't make any difference what I think. I just know what works for me.

The really important question is do you think Sigourney and Nastasa are hot?

 

[flyguy69]

Isn't that also true of free verse?

And doesn't everyone have to start somewhere, no matter what they're writing?

Interest in form versus free verse on this forum waxes and wanes. When I came here in 2002, the regulars were very interested in form. Now it seems the opposite. For the record, my favorite poet here--smithpeter--never wrote a form poem. I just don't get why we have to make it such a dichotomy. It's all poetry, we all have our preferences, we all want to be "poetic," which appears to mean different things to different people.

I wonder if Shakespeare would have thought Bukowski was poetic? Or if Langston Hughes would have thought Bill Knott was? You know what I think? I think they all are and I also think it doesn't make any difference what I think. I just know what works for me.

Well, I happen to think you're poetic. So there!

Actually, it is only true of free verse if you view free verse as a form. Is it? I was imagining it as "formless," and therefore has no medium but words.

I guess if we go back to W.C. Williams you have to include layout, which is certainly an element of form.

You have good points, too, Ange. Make good points. I mean make good points.