A place to discuss the craft of writing: tricks, philosophies, styles

[StillStunned]

A place to discuss the craft of writing: that's what the AH is, according to its description. To socialise too, but I think we get enough of that.

So let's discuss the craft. Don't be shy of you're self-taught, or if you're just mucking around, or if you've got terrible imposter syndrome. If you've written anything, and particularly if you've published it for people to read, you're a writer. And for at least a short space of time your words and imagination have lived in other people's minds. You've occupied their head, they've occupied your world. You're a writer, you've lived the craft.

I'd like this to be a thread where we can share our tips and tricks, our philosophies, our styles, our likes and dislikes, our frustrations and our triumphs. What worked and what didn't, and what we learned from both. Whatever moments you've had as a writer that you've thought "This is part of what makes my stories." Whatever helps you to get the words out of your head, onto the page and into the reader's head.

Like I mentioned above: don't be shy. I once had a professor who said, "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." Likewise, I say, "The only useless thought is the one you don't share." So let's also make this a positive thread and not crap on anyone else's offerings. We're all at different stages in our development, we all have different approaches, we all have different ideas about what we want to achieve, and we all have different priorities. What seems trivial to you is quite possibly quintessential to someone else's experience.

 

[StillStunned]

I'll start.

When I was at uni in a previous millennium, a professor pointed out that Renaissance poets tended to describe people (mostly women) in one direction: from top to bottom. So hair, brow, eyebrows, eyes, nose, cheeks, lips, chin, neck... and the rest. I can't be arsed to look up whether it's true, but I think it's a great principle. Keep the reader's mind and eye moving in one direction means they don't have to spend any effort going back and forth. It's a simple trick, like a camera panning over a scene, and it works just as well for describing rooms and other locations. Or you can do it the other way round: feet, ankles, shapely calves, plump thighs, frilly underwear, the feminine curve of her belly below the swell of her breasts etc.

It's a simple trick, but one that I think brings structure and makes your writing feel more cohesive. And like I've said many times, if you keep your reader's mind moving forward they're more likely to keep reading.

 

[AwkwardMD]

I have a personal writing theory. I developed this on my own. I am probably not the first person to think this way, but I didn’t copy anyone else when I got there. The first part of my theory is that “Everything is a tool.” Word choice, grammar, sentence structure, character design, plot. Racist characters. Slutshaming. Second person narrative. Writing out dialog vs narrating a conversation. Slang. All tools. No tool is useless, but some of them are less universally applicable than others. Some are extremely nuanced. Some tools work better in a given circumstance than other, similar tools. Learning how to use a tool is just as important as learning when to use a tool.

The second part came many years later. I started thinking about what tools are used for, and I realized that the thing I was making, the thing I cared the most about, was the memory my stories would leave in readers minds, and not the story itself. A story is, in digital form or printed, pointless unless someone reads it and takes it in. Thinks about it after, whether that's minutes or years after.

 

[TheStefanSinadinovicLore]

Interesting i like this thread already. Currently doing a new story but I will check in later and give you my perspective

 

[TheWritingGroup]

When I was at uni in a previous millennium, a professor pointed out that Renaissance poets tended to describe people (mostly women) in one direction: from top to bottom.

In a passage I wrote four days ago, a person sees their lover in an orchard, first from a distance, then walks closer. I start by describing the lover's skin color and clothes, then as they approach her hair color, then when close enough to see it, her face. I think it works.

--Annie

 

[yowser]

Interesting framing: it is what the AH mission is all about.

Two items. All the best writers I know are good readers. Who read deeply, can discern tool usage, patterns of delivery, who get the 'sound' of the story. From the beginning my writing has improved when I read the work of others better than I, not to emulate them, but to see how the good ones do it. I like good stylists, with a keen ear to the words, but also a gripping yarn, which can be bare and sparse and vivid.

Secondly, the best writing comes from someone who is perceptive. Who notices things, and has the means to translate those perceptions to the page. I had a friend in college, a tremendous story teller, who could go to the grocery store and come back with a story, just because he observed, processed his thoughts, and could reel them out in a way that brought you along with him on his trip, saw those other humans in their interactions, doing something stupid or different. It was never a surfeit of detail, only just the right amount. I try for the telling detail in my stories, although I'll never be as good as he was, both in observing and narrating. In editing, I try like the blazes to cut out the unnecessary.

 

[Ian_Snow]

Style-wise, the best advice I can give is this - pay attention to what you like and learn from what you don't like. I'm not talking about plagiarism here, but when you're reading something good, grab a notebook and write down bits you like. If you write the sort of stories you'd love to read, you're winning the game.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I like the idea behind this topic. Ironically, regardless of the description of this forum, threads that actually tackle writing are quite rare, as most people prefer to keep their secrets for themselves.

I can't help pointing out that the best way to discuss good or bad writing is through examples. We could learn from each other a lot by analyzing some (neutral) stories. Different people see different things in a story, different strengths and weaknesses. I have read several reviews done by some of the AH-ers and realized that most of the time, I agree about some things and disagree about some other things. I also realized that, as @yowser pointed out, our perception differs. Some people will pick up on some subtleties or inconsistencies that others haven't, while maybe failing to see something else. The collective wisdom works, even if it's sometimes hard to sift through it and eliminate the noise.

Anyway, my contribution to these general tips is that writing well and being able to tell a story, while somewhat intertwined, are separate talents. A writer should work to improve both.

 

[SimonDoom]

Some random thoughts about my writing "philosophy," after a lifetime of enthusiastic reading and 8 1/2 years of enthusiastically writing dirty stories:

1. I generally keep my style and mechanics fairly standard and traditional. It's easier this way and I think I communicate better by doing this.
2. The "Zen Garden" philosophy of writing: it doesn't have to be realistic. It has to be a semi-plausible recreation of reality, which involves artfully placing elements to involve the reader.
3. I always know how the story will end, more or less, before I'm far along into it. I find that knowing where I'm going is a very helpful guiding principle.
4. Verbs are the most important part of speech.
5. "Write what you know": I interpret this as an enabling rather than restricting principle. I don't interpret this as "Don't write what you don't know." I interpret this as "If you write what you don't know, then incorporate things you do know to give it more plausibility."
6. Eschew surplusage. Kill your darlings. Get rid of the unnecessary stuff.
7. Be careful and attentive about point of view and tense.
8. Use substitutes for "said" and "asked" sparingly, and only for a good reason in the circumstance.
9. Details matter, but you don't need many of them. A few good details are all you need.
10. Erotic focus: what is sexiest about my story? I try to focus on that and not get distracted.
11. I love taboo and edging up against and crossing over boundaries, whether it's incest, exhibitionism, or whatever. It gives the story sizzle.
12. There's no mom like a hot mom. Or wife.

 

[AG31]

Keep the reader's mind and eye moving in one direction means they don't have to spend any effort going back and forth.

“Everything is a tool.”

Yes, indeed. Everything is a tool. And SS has nicely described the details of one tool.

My particular tool is somatization. I just realized recently that it is what I like about my own erotica and other stories I read. No way am I suggesting that everyone should use this tool, but I'd like to know if there are others out there who resonate with the idea. In brief, it is the practice of limiting physical description to what the MC is physically experiencing. Bodily sensations, of course, but also limit the description of the environment to what the MC is paying attention to. "Paying attention" is not the same as "seeing." I tried to get a discussion about this going in another thread, but only got one reply. If anyone is interested it is here.

 

[kitmarlowe]

I could talk for days about this stuff. I did my BA in Creative Writing and English Lit and my MA in Creative Writing and I've been running workshops for local writers for about 15 years. Craft stuff is my bread and butter and what I really love talking about.

One book that's been completely invaluable to me over the years is Donald Maass' The Emotional Craft of Fiction. There aren't many craft books that I think are valuable to even slightly experienced writers because so much of it is either covering complete basics or else is very specific to that one author's practice, but this is one of those books where I could feel myself improving as a writer just by reading it, let alone putting the advice into practice. It's one of those books that I pick up from time to time and just turn to a random chapter, and then grab a current WIP and see if I can apply something to it. The internal life of characters was always one of the weaker parts of my writing and I credit this book almost entirely to helping me improve at that aspect of the craft.

 

[StillStunned]

I use the word "then" a lot. Some people might say too much. There's a tendency to associate it with "and then this happened, and then that."

But I find it very useful for indicating a pause.

"I'm going out tonight," she said.
He looked up. "Ah." Then: "You won't be coming home, will you?"

It works best with very sparse descriptions and dialogue, but I like it as a tool for indicating a beat, or a break, or a moment of reflection.

 

[SimonDoom]

Another thing. I don't spend any time wondering about whether what I write is "art," "literature," "porn," "smut," whatever. I've been an avid reader of just about every kind of thing there is to read for my whole life, and it comes down to, "Do I like this or not?" I write to please myself as a reader. I have broad tastes as a reader.

 

[happyyy_]

The first part of my theory is that “Everything is a tool.”

This is such good advice! I remember when I started my writing journey here you told me something similar

I have started to really try to distance myself from my writing and view it as pieces and blocks (tools is so much better haha) that I have to try and fit together. It makes it a lot easier to chuck things out when they aren't working, and to accept feedback from others. If something doesn't work its the darn blocks! I just have to find a more clever way to fit it together. It also helps make it easier to swallow criticism.

Beyond that I have been trying to think/be purposeful in my use of filter words, and emotions. I think my characters are very interior driven.

 

[onehitwanda]

1. Rules are there for a reason.
2. All rules are optional in certain circumstances.
3. Before honouring the spirit of rule 2, you should understand the minutiae of rule 1 - intimately.

Ultimately, though, write how the story needs to be written.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Style-wise, the best advice I can give is this - pay attention to what you like and learn from what you don't like. I'm not talking about plagiarism here, but when you're reading something good, grab a notebook and write down bits you like. If you write the sort of stories you'd love to read, you're winning the game.

A big part of this, IMHO, is unpacking one's own reactions. Don't stop at "I don't like this"; figure out why you don't like it, and maybe how you'd have done it differently, then apply that knowledge to one's own writing.

Hanging out on Story Feedback was useful to me this way, because giving actionable feedback requires doing that unpacking.

 

[AwkwardMD]

This is such good advice! I remember when I started my writing journey here you told me something similar

I have started to really try to distance myself from my writing and view it as pieces and blocks (tools is so much better haha) that I have to try and fit together. It makes it a lot easier to chuck things out when they aren't working, and to accept feedback from others. If something doesn't work its the darn blocks! I just have to find a more clever way to fit it together. It also helps make it easier to swallow criticism.

Beyond that I have been trying to think/be purposeful in my use of filter words, and emotions. I think my characters are very interior driven.

I am beyond thrilled to hear that this has helped you.

 

[AwkwardMD]

Hanging out on Story Feedback was useful to me this way, because giving actionable feedback requires doing that unpacking.

100% agreed. Learning to read critically helped me so much.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I use the word "then" a lot. Some people might say too much. There's a tendency to associate it with "and then this happened, and then that."

But I find it very useful for indicating a pause.

"I'm going out tonight," she said.
He looked up. "Ah." Then: "You won't be coming home, will you?"

It works best with very sparse descriptions and dialogue, but I like it as a tool for indicating a beat, or a break, or a moment of reflection.

This is something I find very important in writing, achieving the right cadence. Especially in dialogue, where I'm usually aiming to match the cadence that dialogue would have when spoken aloud, but not only in dialogue. Punctuation, placement of speech tags, breaks in dialogue for accompanying action, all of them can be tools for tweaking that cadence.

Seanan McGuire said something like "a sentence breathes on a comma, but it turns on a semicolon". Understand when your thoughts are breathing and when they're turning, and then write them in a way that matches that.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Last week, I read Coffee With Michelangelo, and unfinished work was a recurring theme in that book. To me it actually reinforced the idea that every artist has unfinished work, but it also reinforced in me the idea that many unfinished work pieces remain unfinished not because they are forgotten, but because they die, and they have to die because only then they can come back to life and become something better. Is not really about recycling ideas, but more about the unfinished work being just... practice.

There's also a lot about of Michelangelo's process. He used to sketch his sculptures, not just the whole sculpture, but also details, like an entire sketch that was just about an arm. This sketches were both practice, study, and reference for him.

Currently I'm struggling with my work as I'm finding no motivation to write. This is mostly caused by ADHD inertia, but that book shifted my approach to writing, which has been already lite so far.

See, I honestly don't care much about artistry, technique, style, voice, realism (ugh!), and all of that jazz. Actually, I am horribly disgusted by all of it. Spillane called those people hotshots who can't stand the fact that salted peanuts sell more than caviar, or something like that. Also, I'm too much of a perfectionist to care about the value of my work with... all of those things in the middle. I'm raw, I'm obscene, I'm crude, and my work is not for artistic merit as I am from the pulp fiction lineage. I like to write fast-paced stuff, stuff that is fun, stuff that has no bullshit, straight to the point, minimalist... Less is more for me, so I write hard and fast. I sound too manly, yet that contrast is what gives charm to my writings.

 

[Erozetta]

The story is what it is.

The plot happens on its own timeline.

Emotions rule the interactions between characters.

Seemingly mundane interactions can be more interesting than the ones that drive the plot.

There is no "right" path in writing.

Consequences matter.

Let it flow.

Don't throttle your brain to stick to an accepted understanding of plot development. Let shit happen, see what it reveals of your characters or plot, decide later if it's just for you or the reader needs to know it.

More than anything: Have fun. If you aren't having fun, there's no fucking point to writing.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Meta-advice: when somebody gives you advice, it's usually something that works for them. Writing being an intensely personal thing, the same advice might not work for you. Much of the conventional wisdom on how to organise story-writing, planning and structuring and drafting/re-drafting does nothing for me, probably for the same reasons that alcohol makes me tense, and prescription amphetamines and caffeine calm me down and help me get to sleep.

(For years I kept hearing that "edit as you go" is a terrible approach that nobody should use, but I can't make the Proper Way work for me. I was delighted to learn that some of my favourite authors work that way. And then it turned out that a whole bunch of those favourite authors had ADHD. Hmmmm.)

So we each need to develop that skill of receiving advice critically. Don't assume that all advice is good for you, even if it comes from your favourite author. But even if it doesn't work for you, you may be able to learn something useful by thinking about why it works for them, and about whether there are other ways to achieve the same benefits.

 

[Voboy]

My favorite English teacher left me with a simple maxim:

"Good writing is in the verbs."

I usually strive to pay attention to my verbs. If there is a weak link in a sentence or a line, the first thing I do when trying to strengthen it is to find the verbs and ask myself whether I can punch them up. Often, I can. Usually, if so, that's all I need to do.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I use the word "then" a lot. Some people might say too much. There's a tendency to associate it with "and then this happened, and then that."

But I find it very useful for indicating a pause.

"I'm going out tonight," she said.
He looked up. "Ah." Then: "You won't be coming home, will you?"

It works best with very sparse descriptions and dialogue, but I like it as a tool for indicating a beat, or a break, or a moment of reflection.

OK, in the spirit of your thread, and remember. I'm offering only the opinion of somebody that knows shit about writing.
In your example, if the then is removed, it improves the flow. It is a space filler, nothing more...
If you needed to create a pause... Say so, or use something like.
"Ah... I guess that means you won't be coming home tonight."

As I said, I am no expert, just my thoughts.

Cagivagurl.

 

[Cagivagurl]

The only problem is...
If we all take each others advice. we're all gonna end up sounding the same...

Cagivagurl